TF2 beta with Orange Box Pre-Order

[Balt]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
yeah 45 is a great price for what you are getting. valve could easily charge 20 for each of the games separately. i dont have ep1 either, so the only game i'd have an extra copy off is HL2.

I know steam says we cant sell hl2, which is complete horseshit. what i want to know is that we would be allowed to put it up for sale on AT FS/FT or would it be prohibited?

FS/FT usually follows the licensing rules of the software companies (no WoW accounts, for example), so I don't believe you'll be able to sell it there.

If you happen to have a friend who will give you a couple of bucks for it I seriously doubt Valve is gonna find out, though.

 

[duragezic]

Yeah, they got me. Damn marketers... they know what they're doing. Well I've not purchased yet but once I verify my funds are adequate I will.

I enjoyed HL2 singleplayer, so I def want to play Ep1 and Ep2 (trailers have looked excellent). And I wouldn't play Ep2 without Ep1 first, so it's just HL2 that I'd be paying extra for. And Portal is just a bonus. I expect to see/do some pretty interesting and unique things with it.

Even if hypothetically, absolute best case that they had kept the Black Box (TF2, Ep2, Portal) and sold it for $30, then I bought Ep1 for $10, I'd still only save $5 compared to the Orange Box. No matter how stupid I think it is to buy the game again, and be pissed about them not being more considerate to HL2 owners, no matter how I think about it, it is a damn fine deal. If TF2 renews my addiction like I was with the original TF for quake, it'd be worth $45 alone.

Maybe I can off HL2 to someone for $5 or $10. Except I'd want to get the money in hand first, cause the person would probably get a Steam message like "You've just received a free gift: Half-life 2" and then be like "you sob... charging me for a free game!"


I am kind of pissed at Valve for other reasons like how damn long this has taken. I really think it has to do with the launch on 360 and PS3 at the same time. Valve is probably very talented (and they made excellent updates to the Source engine like good multicore support) but surely porting to 360 and moreso to the PS3 is a big part of the delay. I also think it is odd that they don't include or sell separately, CS:S, which the Halo fanboys probably hate anyway but you gotta admit that even console gamers know about Counterstrike and probably wouldn't mind playing it on Live.

 

[MrBond]

I never played HL2 and it's been YEARS since I played through Half Life, so the Orange Box was a no-brainer for me.

Then I went and dropped $1200 at Newegg for components to build a new rig. I really only need a new graphics card, but that was going to require a new power supply and if I'm going to have the computer apart for that, I might as well replace everything in the case, right?



Also, the Peggle game is pretty fun, although a bit short.

Edit: The "Meet the Engineer" video is also up on Steam, it's pretty good.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Daverino
Sigh. . .

HL2 and Ep. 1 are FREE in the Orange box. AND you get a discount on the package purchase of the three new games. Yes, I paid for HL2 and Ep. 1 years ago but the prices of games go down over time. Now they have gone to free. It's not punishment for early adoption, ala the IPhone, HL2 is a three year old game! Get over it.

The really sad thing is that this is just psychology. Nobody here is going to argue that $45.00 is too much to spend for three games from a quality developer like Valve. If the Black Box cost $45.00 and the Orange one cost $60.00 this forum would be filled with people cheering about the great deal they're getting.

Let's be clear TF is nothing more than an MP mod similar to CS and EP2 isn't a full game, more like 6 hours of gameplay like EP1. So since I'm a loyal Valve customer who has thus far purchased all of their Source offerings I should be getting this for $30, sorry but that's the right thing to do.

I am not interested in an extra copy of HL2 and EP1 and I don't care even a little about the other packaged, "games".

This is nothing but milking customers plain and simple.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Daverino
Sigh. . .

HL2 and Ep. 1 are FREE in the Orange box. AND you get a discount on the package purchase of the three new games. Yes, I paid for HL2 and Ep. 1 years ago but the prices of games go down over time. Now they have gone to free. It's not punishment for early adoption, ala the IPhone, HL2 is a three year old game! Get over it.

The really sad thing is that this is just psychology. Nobody here is going to argue that $45.00 is too much to spend for three games from a quality developer like Valve. If the Black Box cost $45.00 and the Orange one cost $60.00 this forum would be filled with people cheering about the great deal they're getting.

Let's be clear TF is nothing more than an MP mod similar to CS and EP2 isn't a full game, more like 6 hours of gameplay like EP1. So since I'm a loyal Valve customer who has thus far purchased all of their Source offerings I should be getting this for $30, sorry but that's the right thing to do.

I am not interested in an extra copy of HL2 and EP1 and I don't care even a little about the other packaged, "games".

This is nothing but milking customers plain and simple.

look i'm no valve apologist, but 20 bucks for a 6 hr game, or 20 bucks for a MP game with a valve level of polish is not a bad deal at all. hell, most full priced games now are about 12 hours long.

 

[Miklebud]

I've been using Steam since it's release years ago, and even though I've bought HL2 and HL2:EP1 years ago, I still bought the Orange Box.
I think of it this way:
Ep2 - Worth around $20 to me
TF2 - Worth around $20 as well
Portal - Worth around $20?
All those for $45....DEAL! Even if they didnt include HL2 + Ep1, the Orange Box is still a bargain.
But...what to do with the free HL2...?

 

[lupi]

I'm not sure why people are surprised here. This is Valve we're talking about; the reason for steam was so that they could personally collect as much of the money related to the games themselves. I find it somewhat laughable that people would expect them to do otherwise with these new releases.
 
 
 

 

[Daverino]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let's be clear TF is nothing more than an MP mod similar to CS. . .

Have you even seen the trailers for this game?

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: lupi
I'm not sure why people are surprised here. This is Valve we're talking about; the reason for steam was so that they could personally collect as much of the money related to the games themselves. I find it somewhat laughable that people would expect them to do otherwise with these new releases.

Never underestimate stupidity, it knows no bounds.

 

[pontifex]

my question is why aren't people crying about the cartoony graphics like they cried about WoW's "cartoony" graphics?

 

[Daverino]

Originally posted by: lupi
I'm not sure why people are surprised here. This is Valve we're talking about; the reason for steam was so that they could personally collect as much of the money related to the games themselves. I find it somewhat laughable that people would expect them to do otherwise with these new releases.

Because it's always better to give your money to huge bloated producers like EA and Ubisoft rather than the actual developers like Valve?

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: pontifex
my question is why aren't people crying about the cartoony graphics like they cried about WoW's "cartoony" graphics?

Either you missed my comment about that in the other thread or people have accepted this graphic style since there are 9 million!!!!! subscribers (even if a majority of them are paying pennies on the dollar in asian countries).

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Daverino

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let's be clear TF is nothing more than an MP mod similar to CS. . .

Have you even seen the trailers for this game?

Yes and I'm calling a duck a duck, it's a mod, just like DOD or CS. Just because it's been delayed for years and features *new* cartoony graphics doesn't mean it's not a mod.

 

[Beev]

Originally posted by: Haui
TF2 should be $19.95 and SHOULD NOT require any other game to play it.

This is the only game I want, and I shouldn't be forced to purchase games I don't want to play.

Are you serious? TF2 is a full fledged game. Why in the HELL should it be $20?

 

[PsharkJF]

Originally posted by: Daverino

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let's be clear TF is nothing more than an MP mod similar to CS. . .

Have you even seen the trailers for this game?

I was just gonna say that: TF like CS? What?!?

Edit: lupi, I think it has less to do with WoW and more to do with what people did with TFC. Some of the most popular custom models/textures/sprites were cartoon-based/cel-shaded.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: pontifex
my question is why aren't people crying about the cartoony graphics like they cried about WoW's "cartoony" graphics?

Either you missed my comment about that in the other thread or people have accepted this graphic style since there are 9 million!!!!! subscribers (even if a majority of them are paying pennies on the dollar in asian countries).

people still whine about it when the game is brought up...

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: PsharkJF

Originally posted by: Daverino

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let's be clear TF is nothing more than an MP mod similar to CS. . .

Have you even seen the trailers for this game?

I was just gonna say that: TF like CS? What?!?

Edit: lupi, I think it has less to do with WoW and more to do with what people did with TFC. Some of the most popular custom models/textures/sprites were cartoon-based/cel-shaded.

i think he meant its like a mod like cs originally was, not that its the same gameplay and stuff as CS

 

[Mutilator]

Originally posted by: Sraaz

Originally posted by: Haui
TF2 should be $19.95 and SHOULD NOT require any other game to play it.

This is the only game I want, and I shouldn't be forced to purchase games I don't want to play.

Are you serious? TF2 is a full fledged game. Why in the HELL should it be $20?

You guys do realize they have individual pricing on Steam right? You just can't buy anything but the Orange Box at the moment.

Individual pricing:
Half-Life 2 $29.95
HL2 Episode One $19.95
HL2 Episode Two $29.95
Portal $19.95
Team Fortress 2 $29.95

 

[JorynnRace]

I don't care how it LOOKS, TF2 IS A MOD. TFC was a mod, CS was a mod, CS Source was a mod.

TF2 is a modification OF A MODIFICATION! Don't try to tell me that TF2 is a full game when it's predecessor, it's FREAKING NAMESAKE was a mod.

Gameplay elements have not been revolutionized have they? Do you still have 2 teams capturing flags and using unique classes? Is there a medic? an engineer? Soldier? Heavy? Oh wait.. this all sounds familiar.

So what if they made it look cartoony (which I'll agree looks cool); the changes to the game itself do not constitute a new product that exists by itself without HL2.

It's just lipstick on a pig.

 

[Daverino]

TF2 is as much of a mod of Half-Life 2 as Thief 3 and Gears of War are mods of Unreal. How about Vampire: the Masquerade? or Dark Messiah? Are they HL2 mods as well? The Source and Havoc engines today are nothing like the one that came out with HL2.

Did you expect a deep discount on C&C3 because you were still fighting with against NOD with Mammoth Tanks? Or how about when you fought the same Imps and Lost Souls in Doom 3 that you did in Doom 1? Oh noes, Madden 2008 has quarterbacks and running backs, it's all the same as Madden 2007. . .

It's a sequel, not a mod. And on top of that, it'll cost you $20.00 to buy ala carte or less with the Orange Box. People are shitting all over themselves to spend $50.00 for XBox and PS3 games with ten hours of real gameplay and you're complaining you're getting ripped off?

Honestly, the ONLY game company out there not actively trying to rip people off is Valve, and that's why I'll defend them. They consistently create high quality games. They offer them at less than what every other developer is capable of. They have the best autopatcher and autoupdater around. The money they take in goes back to their code. Take a second and think about all the great developers that have gone under because of stupid bloated producers and distributors like EA and Ubisoft and thank your stars that at least we still have Valve.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Daverino
TF2 is as much of a mod of Half-Life 2 as Thief 3 and Gears of War are mods of Unreal. How about Vampire: the Masquerade? or Dark Messiah? Are they HL2 mods as well? The Source and Havoc engines today are nothing like the one that came out with HL2.

Did you expect a deep discount on C&C3 because you were still fighting with against NOD with Mammoth Tanks? Or how about when you fought the same Imps and Lost Souls in Doom 3 that you did in Doom 1? Oh noes, Madden 2008 has quarterbacks and running backs, it's all the same as Madden 2007. . .

It's a sequel, not a mod. And on top of that, it'll cost you $20.00 to buy ala carte or less with the Orange Box. People are shitting all over themselves to spend $50.00 for XBox and PS3 games with ten hours of real gameplay and you're complaining you're getting ripped off?

Honestly, the ONLY game company out there not actively trying to rip people off is Valve, and that's why I'll defend them. They consistently create high quality games. They offer them at less than what every other developer is capable of. They have the best autopatcher and autoupdater around. The money they take in goes back to their code. Take a second and think about all the great developers that have gone under because of stupid bloated producers and distributors like EA and Ubisoft and thank your stars that at least we still have Valve.

you started out ok but then went completely off the deep end in your 2nd paragraph.

 

[Daverino]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Daverino
Did you expect a deep discount on C&C3 because you were still fighting with against NOD with Mammoth Tanks? Or how about when you fought the same Imps and Lost Souls in Doom 3 that you did in Doom 1? Oh noes, Madden 2008 has quarterbacks and running backs, it's all the same as Madden 2007. . .

you started out ok but then went completely off the deep end in your 2nd paragraph.

How's that? The guy is arguing he shouldn't pay full price because TF2 has soldiers, medics, engineers, etc as found in TF1 and TFC. It's a sequel, of course it's going to have pretty similar gameplay to the original. . .

 

[JorynnRace]

Here is the distinction:

Gears of War and Thief 3 can stand on their own. Completely seperate IPs that could utilize the Unreal 3 engine regardless of WHO makes them. Do you see Epic trying to make people buy Unreal 3 in order to play either of those games? (that would be backwards mind you.. since Unreal Tourney 3 isn't out yet)

Do you really think TF2 could stand on it's own without HL2? Obviously not if Valve is making us buy HL2 more then once in order to play it. Yeah yeah, we could buy it seperately for $30, but what idiot is going to pay MORE for less?

By the same token, They Hunger on the Source engine will NOT be a mod (if it ever gets released). The originals were mods of HL1, but do you think Valve will sell it seperately as they did with SiN Episodes (which FELT like a mod but wasn't) ? Yes, because it's not a mod.

In my mind, if you have to buy the original game to play the new game, it's a mod. Regardless if it can be played without the original game installed. (can TF2 be played without HL2 by the way?)

 

[Inspector Jihad]

speak with your wallets and don't buy the game.

 

[JorynnRace]

Having said all of what I have said.... I'll probably end up buying the Orange Box anyways, cuz it's likely they won't release a "Black Box", I am not going to pay for it seperately, and I acctually DO want to play EP2 and TF2...

So Valve will probably have swindled yet another customer....

they are scum.