tf2 Kritzkrieg or Ubber?

[nyker96]

I'm kinda new to TF2 (65hrs) but this game is simply addictive. Lately I've played a lot Medic and unlocked the Kritzkrieg. However, I don't find it useful over Ubber. Here's my take:

1. no invulnerability means the patient must survive, but how can he if he wants to get close to the enemy and deal damage.
2. cannot hit sentries, useless in breaking enemy defenses.
3. the duration seems pretty short.
4. only useful on range chars like heavy/demo/soldier
5. patient don't even know it's on, sometimes just waste it
6. the patient often get killed before kritz time is up

however, I like the fact that:
1. it's quick charging time, about 80% Ubber time
2. I can keep using it without worry about getting killed too much'

So do anyone here actually use Kritz at all?

 

[coldmeat]

I prefer uber too, but a kritz at the right time with the right people can do serious damage. I don't know who else you would want to uber/kritz other than a heavy/demo/or soldier, except a pyro so I don't really see that as a con. A good kritz can destroy even the best defenses.

I use ubers though, because I suck with the kritzkrieg.

 

[Carcass]

In my opinion, I think there's much more opportunity for game-changing things to happen in your favour when you're using the uber. That's not to say kritz is by any means useless, but many public games get stuck at some bottleneck. The average pubber (on the receiving end of the charge) is far more likely to keep him/herself and you alive to push a choke if it's using uber rather than kritz.

Medic is taken out really early too often in a lot of pub kritz charges.

I'd say almost never use kritz if you're the only medic on the team, simply because if they have uber and you have kritz up at the same time you're always trumped.

If you have a couple reliably decent team-mates things can change a bit, since kritz + (good) soldier is awesome.

 

[dud]

Question: Does TF or TF2 have a single player mode or are the games multiplayer only?

 

[Joemonkey]

Question: Does TF or TF2 have a single player mode or are the games multiplayer only?

I'm not sure how you would even play them single player, they were meant to be played multiplayer

 

[dud]

I'm not sure how you would even play them single player, they were meant to be played multiplayer

You would play it like any other like game ... with bots (like in CS).

If they lack SP mode ... too bad.

 

[nyker96]

In my opinion, I think there's much more opportunity for game-changing things to happen in your favour when you're using the uber. That's not to say kritz is by any means useless, but many public games get stuck at some bottleneck. The average pubber (on the receiving end of the charge) is far more likely to keep him/herself and you alive to push a choke if it's using uber rather than kritz.

Medic is taken out really early too often in a lot of pub kritz charges.

I'd say almost never use kritz if you're the only medic on the team, simply because if they have uber and you have kritz up at the same time you're always trumped.

If you have a couple reliably decent team-mates things can change a bit, since kritz + (good) soldier is awesome.

I tried some kritz and found that most players just waste it completely since they don't really know when it get turned on. ubber is different, they definitely KNOW when it gets turned on. Another thing is with invul me and my patient don't ever need to worry about defense at all, just rush right into a choke point take out all the sentries. Maybe for kritz to work you need to communicate well with the patient. Also in most cases people noticing kritz just rush forward like ubber, but that way they get killed like in 1-2 seconds, nullifying the entire thing. I'd say to make kritz useful, valve need to make the patient/medic take less damage during kritz.

 

[Red Storm]

I tried some kritz and found that most players just waste it completely since they don't really know when it get turned on. ubber is different, they definitely KNOW when it gets turned on. Another thing is with invul me and my patient don't ever need to worry about defense at all, just rush right into a choke point take out all the sentries. Maybe for kritz to work you need to communicate well with the patient. Also in most cases people noticing kritz just rush forward like ubber, but that way they get killed like in 1-2 seconds, nullifying the entire thing. I'd say to make kritz useful, valve need to make the patient/medic take less damage during kritz.

Kritz is really made for defense rather than offense, with your goal being to take out the opposing medic and any other enemies. On defense the enemy comes to you, so you don't have to worry about breaking through a chokepoint.

Personally I almost always go Uber because, A) There are enemy sentries to take out. B) Opposing team has an Uber and when they use it to rush the point you're Kritz is useless.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Kritz is very situational, but stupidly effective in the right situations.

You shouldn't be fully tied to either - you should change when the situation calls for it. You do have the quick loadout change key bound, right?


If you're the only medic, always go uber - it might be less effective then Kritz in some situations, but it still helps. A kritz when an uber is needed will just get you killed though.


That said, following up an uber with a kritz is a quite effective combination. Take out the sentries with the uber, and then the enemy team with the kritz.


And never, ever, ever kritz a soldier unless that's all you've got. A demo is a much better choice. Twice the ammo in stickies, crit stickies do more damage the crit rockets and have a larger explosion radius then rockets. And you will not get a crit sticky reflected in your face by a pyro. If a pyro even manages to reflect a sticky, only the demo will be hurt and they'll get a huge self-damage reduction.

I keep hoping Valve will eventually nerf those things back into equilibrium, but after 100+ updates untouched, I don't expect it.

 

[zokudu]

Kritz is really made for defense rather than offense, with your goal being to take out the opposing medic and any other enemies. On defense the enemy comes to you, so you don't have to worry about breaking through a chokepoint.

Personally I almost always go Uber because, A) There are enemy sentries to take out. B) Opposing team has an Uber and when they use it to rush the point you're Kritz is useless.

This always Kritz on defense Uber on offense (Play 5pt CP and PLR as offense). Theres just no need for an Uber on defense. If they blow an uber coming into your area you should have a pyro knocking them back (Granted if you lack a quality pyro counter ubering to block them works as well but thats a decision you have to make).

Also blowing a Krits on a demo to lob stickys toward the chokepoint is where its at you don't rush in with a Krits like you would an uber. When on defense your *relatively* safe so there's no need for the self protection of blowing an uber to stay alive or to push them back.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Agree with the above

My default on medic is uber on offerense and kritz on defense, then adjust as needed.

 

[Rezident]

Uber's clearly better in most situations but KK is just more fun. Plus, if you KK a decent Soldier (provided there's no sentries and nobody kills him) a KK'ed Solly can do awesome damage to enemies (Heavy also with a clear view, demo too sometimes).

 

[Rezident]

And never, ever, ever kritz a soldier unless that's all you've got. A demo is a much better choice.

Totally disagree with this. A great Demo, sure, but usually the time your demo has realised he's KK'ed, charged up his stickie, fired it, waited for the delay to expire and then detonated it, the Soldier has fired two rockets killing everyone within splash range.

Your demo will often get killed trying to one-stickie people. Once your Soldier has fired 4 rockets (and 4 Crockets in a row deals devastating damage to any and all players) 6 crit hits from the shotgun will finish off anyone else. Do not underestimate Crit shotgun hits (look at all the frontier justice engies).

N.B. Do make sure that your Soldier uses his Crit shotgun after Crockets instead of making the schoolboy error of wasting precious KK time trying to reload his rockets.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

You really should be using a mic to communicate your intentions if you're playing medic.

And yes, crockets deal good damage to any and all players. But that's kind of the point - that any and all will include you if there is a non-braindead pyro around.

 

[Carcass]

Totally disagree with this. A great Demo, sure, but usually the time your demo has realised he's KK'ed, charged up his stickie, fired it, waited for the delay to expire and then detonated it, the Soldier has fired two rockets killing everyone within splash range.

Your demo will often get killed trying to one-stickie people. Once your Soldier has fired 4 rockets (and 4 Crockets in a row deals devastating damage to any and all players) 6 crit hits from the shotgun will finish off anyone else. Do not underestimate Crit shotgun hits (look at all the frontier justice engies).

N.B. Do make sure that your Soldier uses his Crit shotgun after Crockets instead of making the schoolboy error of wasting precious KK time trying to reload his rockets.

This. Average demoman on public servers is terrible, and spends his day setting massive traps that nobody ever crosses. KK soldier has huge burst damage potential, and between the average soldier vs average demo, the soldier is far more likely to do the right thing when charged.

TF2 like many team games is one where it's best to assume that your team-mates are bad until proven otherwise. Build your public server strategies from that assumption.

 

[JujuFish]

Uber's clearly better in most situations but KK is just more fun. Plus, if you KK a decent Soldier (provided there's no sentries and nobody kills him) a KK'ed Solly can do awesome damage to enemies (Heavy also with a clear view, demo too sometimes).

"Solly" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

This. Average demoman on public servers is terrible, and spends his day setting massive traps that nobody ever crosses. KK soldier has huge burst damage potential, and between the average soldier vs average demo, the soldier is far more likely to do the right thing when charged.

TF2 like many team games is one where it's best to assume that your team-mates are bad until proven otherwise. Build your public server strategies from that assumption.

In my experience, the average pub soldier who's KK gets his teammate hit with reflected crit rockets. This is not really an improvement.

 

[nyker96]

Also blowing a Krits on a demo to lob stickys toward the chokepoint is where its at you don't rush in with a Krits like you would an uber. When on defense your *relatively* safe so there's no need for the self protection of blowing an uber to stay alive or to push them back.

I know that you don't rush in with K but most people in game don't seem to care, they rush in thinking they got all that killing power, but dies in 2 seconds, wasting everything.

Uber's clearly better in most situations but KK is just more fun. Plus, if you KK a decent Soldier (provided there's no sentries and nobody kills him) a KK'ed Solly can do awesome damage to enemies (Heavy also with a clear view, demo too sometimes).

It's true, I KKed a solder and he wasn't aware of it, but he had a high vantage point of fire, killed like 3 instantly. But these occasions are rare.

This. Average demoman on public servers is terrible, and spends his day setting massive traps that nobody ever crosses. KK soldier has huge burst damage potential, and between the average soldier vs average demo, the soldier is far more likely to do the right thing when charged.

TF2 like many team games is one where it's best to assume that your team-mates are bad until proven otherwise. Build your public server strategies from that assumption.

yes, I think in public servers, coordination is too hard and the actions of patients tends to be unpredictable as well. I really should use a mic to do coordination but since I'm rooming with someone it's too bothering when I yell.

 

[KeithTalent]

On most CP maps I generally stick with the rule of uber on Offense and kritz on Defense (this of course depends on the setup of the opposing team). I almost never play as a kritz Medic on Offense as I find we are less likely to hold any progress we make as opposed to when we uber.

For all other maps it really depends on the make-up of the opposing team and the abilities of my teammates; most guys can take an uber in and do at least a bit of damage, but kritz typically requires a little more patience and skill, which you do not often get in newer players.

KT

 

[zokudu]

Look at it this way you blow Kritz and can clear a cart or point easy with a demo solly or maybe a heavy. An uber helps keep your point/cart safe by focusing the other team on you and destroying hindrances like sentries. When your not pushing a point Uber is useless and a Kritz will do better to slow the opposing team.

 

[nyker96]

On most CP maps I generally stick with the rule of uber on Offense and kritz on Defense (this of course depends on the setup of the opposing team). I almost never play as a kritz Medic on Offense as I find we are less likely to hold any progress we make as opposed to when we uber.

For all other maps it really depends on the make-up of the opposing team and the abilities of my teammates; most guys can take an uber in and do at least a bit of damage, but kritz typically requires a little more patience and skill, which you do not often get in newer players.

KT

You are definitely right about K requiring more from both me and the patient. I have to admit I'm a newbie in this game so it could be lack of skill in spotting a good opportunity for K as well as lack of proper communication with my patient to be part of the fault here.

Look at it this way you blow Kritz and can clear a cart or point easy with a demo solly or maybe a heavy. An uber helps keep your point/cart safe by focusing the other team on you and destroying hindrances like sentries. When your not pushing a point Uber is useless and a Kritz will do better to slow the opposing team.

I've actually doing K on both ends. But what you said makes quite a bit of sense. I'll play with K a bit more esp on defense before passing any quick judgment, it could simply be my inexperience in handling it. Ubber on other hand is quite a bit easier for newbies like myself to use.

 

[marmasatt]

The "patient"? .... lol............ You guys are taking this kind of seriously, aren't you?

And if you guys don't stop saying "Solly" I'm going to spit out my beer...

 

[JSt0rm]

kritz is very circumstantial.

 

[dud]

Sorry guys but you may need to get a girlfriend.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

I don't think my wife would like that.