Thank god the NFL has a salary cap and teams don't use guaranteed contracts

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venkman

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2007
4,950
11
81
That's the guy! Completely insane. Makes me wonder how that league even still exists, yet it does...

KT

The Met's agreed to Pay Bonillia this much deferred interest because they figured their investments had been very solid and had returned more then they will owe Bobby. They invested in some fund run by some guy named Berine Madoff.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
I don't know what that would be. Look, I know that you can boil an NFL game down to about 11 minutes. If you did the same thing with a baseball game you'd end up with like 3 plays on average or about 15 seconds. That's a lot of standing around, for very little return.

EDIT: I don't like baseball, that's apparent. I'm not shitting on someone else's opinion of the sport. Love it, hate it, whatever makes a person happy. Clearly there are enough people watching it to keep the sport alive. I certainly wouldn't call it "America's Past Time" anymore.

Fair enough. Baseball isn't for everyone. I just happen to have a dad and sister that would plop me in front of the TV when I was little to watch the games with them so it stuck.

Baseball is about history so I doubt they'll ever cut it down to an hour or something. In baseball you still hear people compare today's players to Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, guys that have been dead for a very long time. You don't get that so much in other sports.

You also don't get teams who you think couldn't stand a chance against another team destroy them. In football sucky teams suck.

Baseball contracts are hideous but nothing I can do.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
That's because it is the only sport where the audience can stare at their phone screens and miss nothing.
Which is exactly the reason why I say that there are so many girls that say they "enjoy" baseball, since they don't have to pay attention at all and can just be on their phones the whole time.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
Who cares what they do? It is their business, let them run the way they see fit. If you don't like how they do it, don't consume their product.

Next.

-KeithP


It is their business. But commenting on it is fun. If your comment was the rule to posting, we'd have 99% fewer posts in this forum... Wait a minute. I need to think this through.

In the meantime, baseball owners are the most greedy SOB's in sports. If their house of cards falls in on them, it would provide me with endless hours of laughter.

Some football contracts are very outrageous. Like baseball, they usually end up in failure. Think Albert Haynesworth. I think the Ndamukong Suh contract may end up the same way. Even if Suh performs okay for the life of the contract, the Dolphins still overpaid.

The NFL did a smart thing locking out players in 2011. The owners got more compensation control, especially with highly drafted college players, who are at risk of being flops or not even making the team. The caps not only do a better job of controlling the maximum an NFL team can spend, compared to baseball's abject failure (think Dodgers), but the NFL CBA also requires a minimum spend too.
 
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stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
In the meantime, baseball owners are the most greedy SOB's in sports. If their house of cards falls in on them, it would provide me with endless hours of laughter.

What makes MLB club owners worst than NBA or NFL club owners?

They're all greedy SOBs, IMO.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
What makes MLB club owners worst than NBA or NFL club owners?

They're all greedy SOBs, IMO.

Sure they are all greedy. I think that in the big picture of things, the NFL owners work together better. All their franchises are profitable, before just valuing the resale value of the teams.

Baseball owners have run scared since the strike fiasco of 1994. They are paying pitchers $30 million a year. Or at least one. Arod, Teixeira, Fielder and Pujlos contracts. And now add the Price contract with the Red Sox. That will end badly. Owners keep making these 100% guaranteed contracts that run 5 to 10 years. Sometimes the player is already into his 30's. Those contracts too often blow up in their faces, as players fail and it hamstrings them from improving their teams.

Don't know enough about the NBA to comment, except they have fewer players to pay.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
Sure they are all greedy. I think that in the big picture of things, the NFL owners work together better. All their franchises are profitable, before just valuing the resale value of the teams.

Baseball owners have run scared since the strike fiasco of 1994. They are paying pitchers $30 million a year. Or at least one. Arod, Teixeira, Fielder and Pujlos contracts. And now add the Price contract with the Red Sox. That will end badly. Owners keep making these 100% guaranteed contracts that run 5 to 10 years. Sometimes the player is already into his 30's. Those contracts too often blow up in their faces, as players fail and it hamstrings them from improving their teams.

Don't know enough about the NBA to comment, except they have fewer players to pay.

Isn't the willingness to pay guaranteed contracts the opposite of greedy?

Also, hasn't baseball has had a lot fewer club moves? NFL teams seem to move around willy-nilly all the time. The Colts even packed up and moved in the middle of the night!
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
The NFL does do huge signing bonuses, which essentially converts a lot of the contract money into guaranteed money. But you also have MLB rosters that are much smaller than NFL rosters while being only about 20% smaller in total revenues.

I can't wait to see the crazy contracts when the new TV contracts kick in for the NBA with their 15 man rosters.

Have a feeling the NBA will implode to our delight when that happens.


As it is now, with the season just starting for most almost all the analyst are quite comfortable saying barring injury the finals are down to only 3 teams.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,337
2,355
136
Bobby Bonilla, the poster-boy for bad contracts before A-Rod came along and stole the title from him. From Wiki...

From 1992 to 1994, Bonilla was the highest paid player in the league, earning more than $6 million per year. Bonilla is currently being paid approximately $1.19 million by the New York Mets each year. This was part of a deal made when the Mets released Bonilla before the 2000 season while still owing him $5.9 million for the final year of his contract. The deal expires in 2035, at which point Bonilla will have been paid $29.8 million for a season in which he did not even play for the Mets.
wow, on the hook for another 19 years!

From the Mets standpoint, that math really doesn't make much sense. $24M of interest on $6M principal sounds like a heck of a return even over 35 years. (Granted the interest rate environment in 2000 was much higher than today's zero rates.)
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Who cares what they do? It is their business, let them run the way they see fit. If you don't like how they do it, don't consume their product.

Next.

-KeithP


Or maybe you'd like to consume it so you discuss it in open forums gathering public sentiment as that's the only way to make changes at that level.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
wow, on the hook for another 19 years!

From the Mets standpoint, that math really doesn't make much sense. $24M of interest on $6M principal sounds like a heck of a return even over 35 years. (Granted the interest rate environment in 2000 was much higher than today's zero rates.)


from what I remember, the mets in part didn't mind such a stupid deal because they were making more on their investments (madoff) than the effective interest on the delayed payments cost them.

it just turned out that they ended up getting screwed from both sides.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Disclaimer: Baseball fan.

Sometimes it's not just about the numbers a guy can put up too. It's about maintaining the brand and the merchandise sales for that player/team. Teams will pay a "penalty" to either land or more commonly keep a marquis player because that player is a big name and jerseys, t-shirts, coffee mugs and condoms will sell 10xs better with their name on it.

It's not just about the on-field performance, it's about the off-field sales too.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Baseball's biggest problem is that fantasy football is a lot more fun than fantasy baseball.

I actually prefer MLB to NFL, but I grew up with baseball and not football so much.

In regards to the contracts extending out for years and years, most of that is deferred money. I imagine those teams have millions sitting in accounts generating untold amounts of interest / capital gains. I doubt these contracts are hurting them too much and they get to sit on a bunch of the money before paying it out.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
Baseball's biggest problem is that fantasy football is a lot more fun than fantasy baseball.

There's so many baseball games through the week that I can't even wrap my mind around how to take care of such a thing. At least with football you have easily defined splits each week. As long as you make sure you have any Thursday night players set up early you're good to go.
 

otho11

Member
Feb 16, 2011
117
22
81
I'd rather have the players benefit from bloated contracts than have the owners keep the profits. It's not as if they're going to lower ticket prices.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
Baseball attendance has been on the rise for several years now.

Baltimore hasn't spent any money in several years.

Therefore they can afford his salary... For now until the circle of over spending catches up to them again and they have to field a basement finishing team for decades.

Sporting events never cease to amaze me. I live a comfortable life and would like to attend a few games here and there but with a family of 5, its ridiculous how much it would cost to go see either the KC royals or Chiefs play. Used to be you could get hyvee seats for $8 a ticket which for upper deck seems like a decent price, but that has now skyrocketed with their success and I can't afford to take the family there and shell out a couple hundred bucks for an afternoon. Chiefs tickets are more insane.

Same thing with the KU Jayhawks basketball. Ticket prices are like $85/ticket and taking my family there would be $400 just for 3 hours of gameplay, not to mention the cost of a soda or nachos or popcorn and parking.

Prices are insane to me, but then again, they say attendance is at an all time high so I guess their pricing model is working.

/shakes head.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Sporting events never cease to amaze me. I live a comfortable life and would like to attend a few games here and there but with a family of 5, its ridiculous how much it would cost to go see either the KC royals or Chiefs play. Used to be you could get hyvee seats for $8 a ticket which for upper deck seems like a decent price, but that has now skyrocketed with their success and I can't afford to take the family there and shell out a couple hundred bucks for an afternoon. Chiefs tickets are more insane.

Same thing with the KU Jayhawks basketball. Ticket prices are like $85/ticket and taking my family there would be $400 just for 3 hours of gameplay, not to mention the cost of a soda or nachos or popcorn and parking.

Prices are insane to me, but then again, they say attendance is at an all time high so I guess their pricing model is working.

/shakes head.

I view sporting events the same way I view movies. Ever ignoring the ticket and concession prices, it's still often a terrible experience. For outdoor games the weather can be a factor, most seats only have a decent view of part of the action and a poor angle on many plays, with TV/commercial breaks the action in the arena seems REALLY slow, with travel and parking it takes twice as long to see a game, you're surrounded by drunks or people on cellphones or idiots standing in front of you or people screaming at the players and refs or people throwing things or people who want to analyze every play for all to hear or likely, all of the above. The best place to watch a game is on TV. You're comfortable and you have the best angle for every play. You control the temps and the noise level and the food selection and the length of breaks.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
Isn't the willingness to pay guaranteed contracts the opposite of greedy?

Also, hasn't baseball has had a lot fewer club moves? NFL teams seem to move around willy-nilly all the time. The Colts even packed up and moved in the middle of the night!
Don't know about how many moves there have been in baseball. How far back do you want to go? The Colts move was a long time ago. Did you factor in the Dodgers and Giants moving to California?

My comment about greed refers to the willingness to bid up these salaries, so other teams can't afford to acquire a player. Owners are screwing over other owners to get a mediocre player at superstar prices. From the players perspective this is great. They benefit from the greed. Get an 8 year contract at $200 million, and cruise for those years putting in a half ass effort. If he gets cut, they or whoever picks him up, still has to pay him.

I remember Jason Varitek in his declining years signed a $5 million contract. The ink wasn't even dry when he pronounced to the media that baseball wasn't his first priority. That's kind of fits the greed definition too. In 2007 Manny Ramirez wasn't giving the team adequate effort, seemingly because he wanted more money. Fearing that he'd intentionally underperform in the playoffs, the Red Sox traded him to the Dodgers. I guess that woke him up, and he played spectacular for the remainder of the 2007 season for the Dodgers. It's amazing how well a ballplayer can perform, before he signs the big contract. Imagine how well some of these guys would play if that 8 contract was only guaranteed for 2 years.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,657
4,130
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We need pay for performance and like a $250k/y salary. So you can make $250k riding the bench or you can make big bucks by performing. You start to decline so does your earning potential. But teams wont be stuck in lame ass contracts paying big bucks for crap stats.
 
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