Thank you Microsoft

[OutHouse]

I don't know 20 people I would trust on my network.

family tablets, PC's, ipods, ipads, smartphones, smartTV's, bluray's. it doesn't take much to hit 20 devices with a family of 5.

 

[MarkXIX]

family tablets, PC's, ipods, ipads, smartphones, smartTV's, bluray's. it doesn't take much to hit 20 devices with a family of 5.

I agree with this! Originally I subnetted my home network to accommodate up to 14 devices (/28 subnet) but just recently increased it to accommodate up to 63 devices (/26).

Between smart TVs, video game consoles, tablets, phones, Bluray players, DVRs, etc., home networks are getting pretty damn busy.

 

[quikah]

I have a five year old upper middle class machine so I'm not sure how it would take to a new OS; old computers tend to be a pretty consrvative bunch. Though I did upgrade to an SSD so that might make things mo' better for an upgraded OS. Maybe wait until this machine dies then upgrade on the next.

I upgraded my old Core 2 Duo desktop. Runs great, super fast boot. Has made me not care about upgrading the hardware now. Some weird bugs every now and then and obvious missing features (like changing download location in Edge), certainly a reasonable idea to wait a few months for all the updates to smooth out the rough edges.

Was this "feature" in the Insider test versions and we all missed it or did they slip this in at the last minute?

been there for a while. The panic over this feature is silly. You have to explicitly check a share box to share a network. The default is to not share. If it bothers you just turn wifi sense off.

 

[olds]

I haven't had an issue with 8 or 8.1. But I've ran Start8 since day 1.

 

[Mixolydian]

built in ISO mounting,

I still can't believe it took Windows this long to get this.

OS X has had this since its debut, and before that had other native disk image formats. Linux/BSD/UNIX has also had it for eons.

 

[MarkXIX]

The panic over this feature is silly. You have to explicitly check a share box to share a network. The default is to not share. If it bothers you just turn wifi sense off.

I agree the panic is silly and the majority of people that will latch onto this and act stupid about it are people who run WEP or less with a weak password or no security at all.

My only concern is that for this to work there is clearly an exchange of the login data somehow and I'm hoping that the mechanisms used to do so are tough enough they don't needlessly expose people's network security credentials.

 

[balloonshark]

been there for a while. The panic over this feature is silly. You have to explicitly check a share box to share a network. The default is to not share. If it bothers you just turn wifi sense off.

So what happens when a friend or family member with a Windows 10 computer wants to use your wifi that you don't want to share with their contacts?

 

[TheSlamma]

And thank you for Microsoft Edge. It does a great job at navigating to Mozilla and downloading Firefox.

My version is better, it took me to PortableApps where I get Firefox and other software that doesn't have to install into my registry or profile and clog it to death.

 

[Scarpozzi]

What happened to Bob and Windows ME?

 

[TheSlamma]

What happened to Bob and Windows ME?

ME is a good point.
Windows 3 was junk compared to 3.1/3.11
98 was junk compared to 98SE

Bob was just a GUI interface for Windows

 

[Red Squirrel]

10 is full of spy stuff, I would not trust it outside of a closed/test network. You can disable a lot of that stuff though but it makes you wonder what else is under the hood that people have not figured out yet.

http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/

Then there's that whole thing of it sharing your wifi password with all your friend's friends, which is very bad because it's not you that has to be running windows 10 for it to happen, it's your friends. You can uncheck the box, but you have to trust them to remember to do it. If you have guests that come over you definitely want a separate guest wifi network anyway and use a password you don't use anywhere else. More details here:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2943...e-in-windows-10-raises-security-concerns.html


I think I'll be sticking to Linux for my main OS, and for my gaming machine I'll be sticking to 7.

 

[lupi]

I just want my paperclip back.

 

[quikah]

So what happens when a friend or family member with a Windows 10 computer wants to use your wifi that you don't want to share with their contacts?

What happens now when someone with a Windows 7 PC wants to use your wifi? I can post your wifi password all over the internet if you give it to me. Just ask them not to share it.

If you can't trust the people you give your password to I posted the solution in the OS forum thread. Of course, if you can't trust the people to not share your network I am not sure why you would trust them on your wifi network in the first place.

 

[Imp]

I don't like change. Sticking to Windows 7 until my machine dies. If machine dies, I'll probably just save the $90 OEM and reinstall Windows 7.

 

[ultimatebob]

Eight nine ten.

That makes no sense. Try "Seven Eight Nine".

 

[ultimatebob]

Win 3.1 - Awesome. After getting the modem to work at least
Win95 - Awesome. Even with blue screens. Drivers that don't require tweaking irqs and crap.
Winnt 4 - Awesome. All corporate and stuff.
Win98 - Awesome. No issues. Bring all the games
Win2000 - After adjustment period, great. No issues
WinXP - After adjustment period, great. No issues
Win7 - After adjustment period, great. No issues
Win8 - After adjustment period, great. No issues
Win10 - After adjustment period, great. No issues.

Its just an OS people

There has NEVER been an awesome version of Windows. Just various degrees of general irritation. Not that Apple is much better, mind you.

Windows 2000 is still my favorite. It just worked in most cases without getting in my way.

 

[Rakehellion]

Is this true? Your free upgrade ain't free!

 

[sportage]

Then there's that whole thing of it sharing your wifi password with all your friend's friends

I don't have any friends. So I guess I'm sharing with my enemies?
Actually, I use mac. And how does that relate to "Thank You Microsoft"?
Well, thank you Microsoft for my discovery of the other side.

I do have a legit question, however...
Most people have ISP data limits. Is this sharing thing really a good idea?
If there is a strange car parked on the street outside your home with someone just sitting inside, should that W10 user worry?
Call the cops! Call the cops!

 

[lxskllr]

Is this true? Your free upgrade ain't free!

http://i.imgur.com/56JSq4g.png

MS never knows what it's doing. There's the floated draconian rules to see how much people bitch. The established rule that's buried in 100 pages of eula, but difficult to find on their Stygian site, and the unofficial rule of what people can get away with.

Nothing is easy, and it's all subject to change at any time. Ask 10 people at MS how it works, you get 11 answers. It's all a tedious pita, and a big reason I don't use their crap anymore.

 

[XavierMace]

Then there's that whole thing of it sharing your wifi password with all your friend's friends, which is very bad because it's not you that has to be running windows 10 for it to happen, it's your friends. You can uncheck the box, but you have to trust them to remember to do it. If you have guests that come over you definitely want a separate guest wifi network anyway and use a password you don't use anywhere else. More details here:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2943...e-in-windows-10-raises-security-concerns.html


I think I'll be sticking to Linux for my main OS, and for my gaming machine I'll be sticking to 7.

I agree the panic is silly and the majority of people that will latch onto this and act stupid about it are people who run WEP or less with a weak password or no security at all.

My only concern is that for this to work there is clearly an exchange of the login data somehow and I'm hoping that the mechanisms used to do so are tough enough they don't needlessly expose people's network security credentials.

Dumb journalists are dumb. As I posted on another forum, this feature has been in Windows Phone 8 since day one. It takes 3 separate actions to share your WiFi sense data with your Facebook friends. You have to manually sign into Facebook, allow the phone to log into Facebook, then allow the phone to share data with Facebook, then enable WiFi sense to share with Facebook. You've pretty much thrown security out the window long before sharing the WiFi password. If at no point you don't stop and think "hey, this could be a bad idea", you deserve whatever hell is going to rain down on your network.

The fix is really simple. Swipe that handy little On/Off switch and be done with it. Even if it was on by default (it's not), you still have to setup your phone to share basically everything with Facebook for this to work. You've already given it all your personal info at that point, not sure why everybody seems to think that's fine but giving it your WiFi password is the end of the world. Facebook and Security are basically mutually exclusive goals.

If nothing else maybe this will teach people to start using some basic wireless security at home.

In regards to the friend of friends aspect.... Yes, that's technically a concern. I guess. But, as with everything else about this it's way overhyped. WiFi sense maintains a database of hotspot passwords. This database is not something you can just browse through. Please note I'm not saying it can't be hacked/cracked, but for 99% of people they can't see what's in this database.

So, friend A comes over and ends up sharing your WiFi login with the invisible database which gives access to all of friend A's friends. None of those people will ever know they have access to your WiFi unless friend A goes out of his way to tell them. If friend A is that sort of person there's nothing stopping him from doing it the old fashioned way and just telling them the password you gave him. If you're worried about this, you shouldn't have given him the password in the first place.

I can't speak to your friends but personally I don't know anyone who has nothing better to do then randomly visit friends of friends houses to see if I've accidentally been given access to their WiFi.

Last but not least, ok, someone you know was given access to your WiFi network without your knowledge. Ok, that's not good. However they have login credentials for a WiFi network they have no idea where it's physically located.

Realistically this is a pretty small impact/risk. One which can be solved by having a separate guest SSID and/or MFA which anybody who shares their WiFi should do anyways. I've got a guest WiFi and the Home network requires AD authentication so WiFi sense could share the SSID and passcode all day long, it's not going to do anyone any good.

 

[davmat787]

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/mozilla-calls-microsoft-pushing-edge-firefox/

how dare they push their own browser in their own operating system that they made themselves

#evilmicrosoft

In the olden days many considered such behavior as monopolistic and worthy of lawsuits and millions upon millions of dollars in settlements.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Dumb journalists are dumb. As I posted on another forum, this feature has been in Windows Phone 8 since day one. It takes 3 separate actions to share your WiFi sense data with your Facebook friends. You have to manually sign into Facebook, allow the phone to log into Facebook, then allow the phone to share data with Facebook, then enable WiFi sense to share with Facebook. You've pretty much thrown security out the window long before sharing the WiFi password. If at no point you don't stop and think "hey, this could be a bad idea", you deserve whatever hell is going to rain down on your network.

The fix is really simple. Swipe that handy little On/Off switch and be done with it. Even if it was on by default (it's not), you still have to setup your phone to share basically everything with Facebook for this to work. You've already given it all your personal info at that point, not sure why everybody seems to think that's fine but giving it your WiFi password is the end of the world. Facebook and Security are basically mutually exclusive goals.

If nothing else maybe this will teach people to start using some basic wireless security at home.

In regards to the friend of friends aspect.... Yes, that's technically a concern. I guess. But, as with everything else about this it's way overhyped. WiFi sense maintains a database of hotspot passwords. This database is not something you can just browse through. Please note I'm not saying it can't be hacked/cracked, but for 99% of people they can't see what's in this database.

So, friend A comes over and ends up sharing your WiFi login with the invisible database which gives access to all of friend A's friends. None of those people will ever know they have access to your WiFi unless friend A goes out of his way to tell them. If friend A is that sort of person there's nothing stopping him from doing it the old fashioned way and just telling them the password you gave him. If you're worried about this, you shouldn't have given him the password in the first place.

I can't speak to your friends but personally I don't know anyone who has nothing better to do then randomly visit friends of friends houses to see if I've accidentally been given access to their WiFi.

Last but not least, ok, someone you know was given access to your WiFi network without your knowledge. Ok, that's not good. However they have login credentials for a WiFi network they have no idea where it's physically located.

Realistically this is a pretty small impact/risk. One which can be solved by having a separate guest SSID and/or MFA which anybody who shares their WiFi should do anyways. I've got a guest WiFi and the Home network requires AD authentication so WiFi sense could share the SSID and passcode all day long, it's not going to do anyone any good.

The real issue is not the fact that the user of the device can opt out, it's the fact that if they don't, they expose the password of networks they may not even control. Say you have friends over that you trust enough that they just know your wifi password, they enter it, and they forget to disable that option. Boom, now all their facebook friends know your wifi password. yeah you can append some optout bullcrap to your SSID, but you should not have to do that. This is overall a dumb feature. The way it SHOULD work is that network operators can optionally submit their network to Microsoft as being public. Make it so the network owner has to opt in, not the guests having to opt out.

But guess the easiest solution is to simply have a guest network and never give out the password to your main one.

 

[quikah]

Say you have friends over that you trust enough that they just know your wifi password, they enter it, and they forget to disable that option.

There is nothing to disable. You have to explicitly click the share button and re-enter the WiFi password to share a known network or tick the share box when you connect to a new network. There is no way to accidentally do this.

I tried to test this out to see how it works, but the FAQ say it can take several days for it to work.

 

[BoberFett]

The hate for Windows 8 is somewhat irrational. While I will admit I never fully adapted to using it on my desktop PC, on a tablet device is was phenomenal in my opinion. So phenomenal that I feel like Windows 10 is a step back on my Surface Pro 3 compared to Windows 8.

But, I've made the leap to Windows 10 and I'm not going back.

I was previously using XP, and bought a couple of 8 when MS was doing the promotion for $40 legal copies. I also have a Surface Pro with Win8.

Under the hood, it was the best OS MS ever released. The UI was crap however. It's like they ignored everything that the world has learned about UI design in the last several decades and just threw random crap at the wall hoping something would stick.

Want to power off your computer? Sure, Settings is a perfectly logical place to do that... /facepalm

 

[zinfamous]

Win 3.1 - Awesome. After getting the modem to work at least
Win95 - Awesome. Even with blue screens. Drivers that don't require tweaking irqs and crap.
Winnt 4 - Awesome. All corporate and stuff.
Win98 - Awesome. No issues. Bring all the games
Win2000 - After adjustment period, great. No issues
WinXP - After adjustment period, great. No issues
Win7 - After adjustment period, great. No issues
Win8 - After adjustment period, great. No issues
Win10 - After adjustment period, great. No issues.

Its just an OS people

And yet you can recall how you felt about each version since 3.1.

He seems to have forgotten how he felt about ME....