Thanks, Apple...

[WelshBloke]

Education apps.

You could buy a lot of books for $479.

 

[zsdersw]

You could buy a lot of books for $479.

Totally missing the point.. and the direction that we're going.

 

[Sloper]

Textbooks are (will be) dead. Adapt or die.

 

[WelshBloke]

Totally missing the point.. and the direction that we're going.

What point?

That schools should be about educating children not getting them hooked on the latest shiny gadgets.

That it may be more work to get them to read books than to stare at a screen thats covered with brightly coloured cartoon characters but it will do the kids attention spans the world of good?

Etc

Etc

ad nauseum


/oldgeezer

 

[zsdersw]

What point?

That schools should be about educating children not getting them hooked on the latest shiny gadgets.

That it may be more work to get them to read books than to stare at a screen thats covered with brightly coloured cartoon characters but it will do the kids attention spans the world of good?

Etc

Etc

ad nauseum


/oldgeezer

The world that these kids will be going into demands IT skills and proficiency. IT is also a great tool for kids to learn the basics. Researching problems, finding useful information, thinking critically are all skills that students need to learn... and IT is the best tool for these things that bridges many of the differences in the ways kids learn.

It's not about getting them hooked on shiny gadgets, it's about teaching them the things they need to learn with the best tools available.

 

[WelshBloke]

The world that these kids will be going into demands IT skills and proficiency. IT is also a great tool for kids to learn the basics. Researching problems, finding useful information, thinking critically are all skills that students need to learn... and IT is the best tool for these things that bridges many of the differences in the ways kids learn.

It's not about getting them hooked on shiny gadgets, it's about teaching them the things they need to learn with the best tools available.

A really well equipped library and the skills to use it would do them better but it looks like a lot of the education budgets are going to be spent on shiny crap that will be obsolete in a few years.

 

[zsdersw]

A really well equipped library and the skills to use it would do them better but it looks like a lot of the education budgets are going to be spent on shiny crap that will be obsolete in a few years.

The bolded part tells me right there that you have absolutely zero experience in the education environment and, as such, don't know what you're talking about.

The personal computer was once regarded by people in your position in life as a piece of "shiny crap" when it was in its infancy, but if you don't think it has fundamentally changed and improved student learning... well, you're just not paying attention.

 

[WelshBloke]

The bolded part tells me right there that you have absolutely zero experience in the education environment and, as such, don't know what you're talking about.

OK, so no one learnt anything before iPads were invented?

 

[zsdersw]

OK, so no one learnt anything before iPads were invented?

Sure they did, but they can learn and understand things better with IT. Not just the iPad.

 

[WelshBloke]

Sure they did, but they can learn and understand things better with IT. Not just the iPad.

Is there any evidence to actually show that increased classroom IT leads to better educated pupils?

And I'm not arguing against all IT. Good school libraries should have decent computer labs, but if you keep chucking shiny gadgets at children they are going to miss out on a lot. Education shouldn't be easy, the whole point of it is to stretch their abilities.

 

[zsdersw]

Is there any evidence to actually show that increased classroom IT leads to better educated pupils?

Yes there is, actually. But it's not just about the classroom. It's also about at home and elsewhere outside of school. The key to successfully using IT to increase student performance is in what you do with the IT. There are good websites and apps that teach math, science, reading... and plenty of things like webquests that enhance research/critical thinking abilities.

The more these resources become available to students, the better they will perform.

And I'm not arguing against all IT. Good school libraries should have decent computer labs, but if you keep chucking shiny gadgets at children they are going to miss out on a lot. Education shouldn't be easy, the whole point of it is to stretch their abilities.

And many students who have these devices at home or have used a friend's are just using it to play games. Teaching them other things with it stretches their abilities as well.

 

[MagickMan]

looks like the OP hasn't dealt with some angels of IT like Oracle, IBM, Sun and others

Damned right, Oracle makes Apple look downright generous.

Buy refurbs for $419, full warranty, they're perfect.

This. It's like getting an $80 discount.

 

[MagickMan]

Not available to K12 districts.

Yes, they are. Just go to the online store and buy them. I'm a teacher and our IT people bought quite a few iPad refurbs for the school, I even bought one myself for personal use. Just call Apple and talk with them, they'll hook you up.

 

[ultimatebob]

Education apps.

Yeah... I keep hearing from my wife that there are a ton of education applications for special needs children that are only available on iOS.

I guess that we need to wait for those $200 Android tablets to catch on before they're ported to Android.

 

[alent1234]

You could buy a lot of books for $479.

school books are outdated by the time they hit the classroom

 

[dougp]

Yes, they are. Just go to the online store and buy them. I'm a teacher and our IT people bought quite a few iPad refurbs for the school, I even bought one myself for personal use. Just call Apple and talk with them, they'll hook you up.

I'm wondering how the OP is doing the purchase. Have you called Apple, or are you just using their website?

 

[Oyeve]

Sure they did, but they can learn and understand things better with IT. Not just the iPad.

This is complete and utter bullshit. I have been in IT for 30 years and I cringe every time I see a 2 year old holding an ipad. Not because its a douchey apple product but because kids are stupid today. Really, kids today aged 10-21 are stupid fucking morons compared to kids that grew up WITHOUT tech. Sure, pull some stats out of your ass that says kids today are smarter because they are passing more tests to day than they were in the 70s and I will say we didnt cheat as much in the 70s like kids are doing today. Phones, watches all sorts of gadgets kids use to cheat today. PLUS, IMO, the testing/learning curve is so fucking easy today. Really, I see the tests and the homework my sons gets as a senior in HS and its literally thet shit I learned in middleschool or evan earlier.

Ok, rant tuned off.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

We're moving toward 1-to-1 computing, where each student has a computing device that they can use both in and out of school.

It seems a lot of districts are doing that. Considering the constant complaints about the same districts budget problems I still can't figure out who thought it was a bright idea or why they always pick Macbooks and iPads.

IMO it is a waste of taxpayer money but that's a discussion for another section.

 

[QueBert]

LULZ at the mentions in thread of Libraries and text books being better for learning, really? Sounds like one of my 7th grade teachers who said I wasn't very smart because I used Compuserve to look up facts for my reports instead of using an encyclopedia and the library like a smart kid would. These "smart kids" would spend way more hours browsing for books. Where I was online and done in 1/3rd the time if not less.

 

[shortylickens]

You could buy a lot of books for $479.

Not really. So many K-12 grade books are inching closer to 100 dollars. And college books go for 200 now.
Of course, licensing digital books will only save schools about 10 percent, but why think about that?

 

[WelshBloke]

LULZ at the mentions in thread of Libraries and text books being better for learning, really? Sounds like one of my 7th grade teachers who said I wasn't very smart because I used Compuserve to look up facts for my reports instead of using an encyclopedia and the library like a smart kid would. These "smart kids" would spend way more hours browsing for books. Where I was online and done in 1/3rd the time if not less.

They don't make you look for answers as an end its meant to teach you a method. So yeah, those "smart kids" got more out of the exercise than you did.

 

[Pliablemoose]

There's a couple of studies out suggesting the traditional "lecture" is woefully inadequate. Was just listening to a story on NPR about it last week.

I just saved you $1000 by suggesting refurbs.

You're welcome, and your rant is now redundant.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Why not $450, $425, or $400? Why won't Apple let other retailers sell in quantity to my (or any other) K12 district so I can get the best price?

They're certainly taking advantage of their market position.

Because after $250, they have to pay for marketing, for labor (assembling the parts, boxing the product, selling the product), for transportation, for marketing, for R&D, and then account for profits. Granted, that means the cost of an iPad should be $350 to them maximum, and they should be perfectly fine with selling them at $400, but then $400 is likely the channel price to retailers.

And they also forbid retailers from selling in volumes likely because then they can't control whether the retailers bought from them for cheap to channel the products to another market (like China), or whether they are actually selling to actual buyers.

All of the messy pricing stuffs aside, buying quantity of 14 wouldn't give you a discount for sure... because that's way too low. The same logic above applies. They don't know if you are really going to use the product for education, or if you are going to resell it after buying it from them for cheap.

But all of that aside, I think that if the tech upgrade was too costly, perhaps it shouldn't have been considered. As much as I love the tech of the iPad, I see no apparent improvement it can bring to schools over current computer systems... and those can be obtained for far cheaper.

And even if the iPad does make an impact, I have to wonder how only 14 iPads would help...

On a side note, unless it had to be iPad 2, you could have asked for refurbished iPad 1 units, which would have been a lot cheaper.

 

[Pliablemoose]

As much as I love the tech of the iPad, I see no apparent improvement it can bring to schools over current computer systems... and those can be obtained for far cheaper.

And even if the iPad does make an impact, I have to wonder how only 14 iPads would help...

On a side note, unless it had to be iPad 2, you could have asked for refurbished iPad 1 units, which would have been a lot cheaper.

iPads are perfect for a ton of things, and cheaper than a traditional dumb terminal.

In my setting even the square feet used by COW's is a savings.

 

[runawayprisoner]

iPads are perfect for a ton of things, and cheaper than a traditional dumb terminal.

In my setting even the square feet used by COW's is a savings.

Oh no, I'm sure. Just that to say it's better than a traditional computer at education is... quite a bold statement, and would require a lot of backing.

On top of that 14 iPads simply isn't enough in my opinions, unless only very privileged classrooms would be able to use them.