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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Links to back up we were tired? I think your assertion is false.

Do you really not think there was an Iraqi uprising in 1991? It's easy to find on google. Similar situation to Libya, except in Iraq's case it was caused by GHWB telling the Iraqi people the rise up, implying that the Americans would help them. Then we sat in Kuwait and watched them get slaughtered, Bay of Pigs style.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Do you really not think there was an Iraqi uprising in 1991? It's easy to find on google. Similar situation to Libya, except in Iraq's case it was caused by GHWB telling the Iraqi people the rise up, implying that the Americans would help them. Then we sat in Kuwait and watched them get slaughtered, Bay of Pigs style.

I know there was a uprising in 1991.

Was that uprising before or after we started that war?

And your second statement has nothing to do with what you said about us being too tired to help.

Please back up your revisionist history with something. anything.

Or you can just shut the fuck up.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
You are truly stupid JSTOrm, Nebor is 100% right in this case and you are 100% wrong. As Saddam was forced sign a humiliating peace treaty AFTER DESERT STORM coalition of the willing war, George H. Bush got cold feet and allowed Saddam a free hand in Iraq because he did not want to engage in nation building in Iraq.

But still the GHB promise to support those Iraqis who rebelled against Saddam was still good, and then GHB turned his back and allowed Saddam to butcher Kurds and Shias with impunity. As it became Saddam's cousin Chemical Ali's finest hour.

As we wonder today why Arab's don't believe a word of US propaganda.

As for me, I do believe GHB had a fine record in building a world coalition to expel Iraq from Kuwait, but allowing Saddam post war to butcher his own people stains the GHB's presidency with sins of blood and shame no amount of Macbeth hand washing can forgive. What a famdamily dynasty, Prescott Bush was a Nazi supporter, GHB failed to honor promises, and GWB was the worst of the lot by far.

As I fail to mention that anyone who believes GHB was out of the loop on Iran Contra believes in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and the Easter bunny too.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
As Saddam was forced sign a humiliating peace treaty AFTER DESERT STORM coalition of the willing war, George H. Bush got cold feet and allowed Saddam a free hand in Iraq because he did not want to engage in nation building in Iraq.

I dont disagree with any of that. But how does that have to do with his statement that "We got tired and come back 10 years later to help them and being surprised that they all didnt last 10 years"

I dont see either of you to pushing some links in my direction to prove this point. You can both go fuck yourselves.


We went back to iraq because of false claims that they had weapons of mass destruction. NOT because we told them we would return to help in their "civil war" from 10 years earlier.

And you call me stupid?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Apocalypse imminent, LL and I have agreed on something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is something we can no longer agree on Nebor. You may think Apocalypse is imminent for all the sins on all sides, while I am more perhaps foolishly optimistic that we can pull back from that doom by asserting the better angels of our natures still all within us.

But still point granted Nebor, job one is to understand our past mistakes on all sides and not demonize just one side while denying our own mistakes. Something somewhat hard to understand while within current history, but future historians, if we survive, will better be able to look at the past and call us all foolish idiots.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
show me a fucking link then.

You said the reason bush didnt go in is because he didnt want to do nation building. I agree with this. Nebor stated the reason to be "because we were tired" It is that i dont agree with. Do you agree with nebor?

Do you agree with nebor that we turned 90 degrees in Afghanistan and wandered into iraq to aid the civil war that we said we would help 10 years earlier?

Again show me the fucking links and I will concede.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
at least have the balls to come back and say you cant find any links that claim these things.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I dont disagree with any of that. But how does that have to do with his statement that "We got tired and come back 10 years later to help them and being surprised that they all didnt last 10 years"

I dont see either of you to pushing some links in my direction to prove this point. You can both go fuck yourselves.


We went back to iraq because of false claims that they had weapons of mass destruction. NOT because we told them we would return to help in their "civil war" from 10 years earlier.

And you call me stupid?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet you call yourself smart while still admitting GWB sold a war on Iraq based on total lies.

And then to add injury to insult you believed Dumsfeld that we could nation build in Iraq with 1/4 of the troops required to have a successful military occupation. Any military on earth knew it was a sure preconception for failure, including our own. Yet when General Senseki told Rumsfeld that he was fired for his honesty.

You call yourself smart JSTOrm when you are a total non thinking fool. As you even dis Nebor who has seen the clusterfucks up close and personal as he lays his life on the line to support what I think is foolishness.

While you stay at home and eat propaganda like potato chips and facts go from ear to ear without impacting a functioning brain in between.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
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Yet you call yourself smart while still admitting GWB sold a war on Iraq based on total lies.

Are you saying he didnt? Links?

And then to add injury to insult you believed Dumsfeld that we could nation build in Iraq with 1/4 of the troops required to have a successful military occupation.

Thats what i believe? Show me a link. I never said that.

Any military on earth knew it was a sure preconception for failure, including our own. Yet when General Senseki told Rumsfeld that he was fired for his honesty.

I agree

You call yourself smart JSTOrm when you are a total non thinking fool.

fuck you.

As you even dis Nebor who has seen the clusterfucks up close and personal as he lays his life on the line to support what I think is foolishness.

dis him for being a revisionist? You bet.

While you stay at home and eat propaganda like potato chips and facts go from ear to ear without impacting a functioning brain in between.

I dont know what you are talking about here.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
oh and you still haven't brought any links to the conversation, little bitch.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I dont disagree with any of that. But how does that have to do with his statement that "We got tired and come back 10 years later to help them and being surprised that they all didnt last 10 years"

I dont see either of you to pushing some links in my direction to prove this point. You can both go fuck yourselves.


We went back to iraq because of false claims that they had weapons of mass destruction. NOT because we told them we would return to help in their "civil war" from 10 years earlier.

And you call me stupid?

Did you miss post #50?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
yes I did. It was at the bottom of the second page and you responded again at the top of the 3rd.

I'm still interested to see why lemon jumped to the rescue here. Im VERY interested to see him produce something with me saying

"And then to add injury to insult you believed Dumsfeld that we could nation build in Iraq with 1/4 of the troops required to have a successful military occupation."

Yes produce that please. Show where I believed Rumsfeld. Fucking prick.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I'm pretty sure he was just backing up the stuff about the uprising that Saddam put down in 1991.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
I'm pretty sure he was just backing up the stuff about the uprising that Saddam put down in 1991.

Well he was using strawman bullshit so now he has to back it up. Im a equal opportunity hater. I dont give a shit if you are liberal or conservative you use strawmen with me and I stand around until they cower away or admit they are wrong.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Its not easy to find on google as Nebor asserted, but after some searching, on google,
you might try, http://www.representativepress.org/evenafter.htm for a start. Better google searchers may be able to find more definitive history posts, and I will also keep trying.

But in point of fact Nebor is 100% historically correct and you are 100% wrong. GHB and even Dick Cheney at the time gave Saddam a total free hand to butcher all internal dissent in Iraq after Gulf War 1 ended.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
As the ink is barely dry on the announcement that the US military occupation of Iraq is over,
and now it very much looks like Iraqi democracy is in big danger of collapse.

So...........?

We should have never been there is the first place. Period.
Over 3000 Americans dead. And a bankrupt America back home.
That area of the world has been at war since there was that area of the world.
And they will still be at war when the clouds part and that glowing spirit dressed in white comes forth to end the world (as it is said).

The ignorance of the subject is first in believing that "we", America, can or could ever change that never ending eternal conflict over there in that land.
A wise nation would never get involved in the first place.
But when GW was incharge, we could hardly be called a "wise" nation at the time.
And hardly a nation of "wise" voting public, during those years.

Oh.... the oil. The oil thing. All that oil. More and more oil. The oil....
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Its not easy to find on google as Nebor asserted, but after some searching, on google,
you might try, http://www.representativepress.org/evenafter.htm for a start. Better google searchers may be able to find more definitive history posts, and I will also keep trying.

How ever you like to spend your night bro. Go find it.

But in point of fact Nebor is 100% historically correct and you are 100% wrong. GHB and even Dick Cheney at the time gave Saddam a total free hand to butcher all internal dissent in Iraq after Gulf War 1 ended.

I never said saddam never butchered his people. More strawmen.
 

SolidSnake42

Senior member
Feb 9, 2010
261
0
0
I'm just happy we're out (at least mostly). For whatever problems they have with their gov't, leave them to it. Please no more intervention bullshit.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
are you done in here mister lemon bitch?

I thought for sure I would wake this morning with a stack of links from you. and nothing all day?

I am disappoint.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
For what its worth, there is more bad news for Iraqi government stability today, as the party of All-Sadr joins in calls for new elections.

While Al-Sadr is a shia, he last played the role of kingmaker by withdrawing support from Alawi and supporting Maliki, to head the fragile Iraqi unity government of today. As the Al-Sadr party one one of the largest Shia parliamentary blocks in Iraq as Al-Sadr is one of the few Iraqi/clerics/politicians to reach out to Sunnis.

In short, Maliki has alienated a good part of his own Shia majority support, totally alienated Sunnis who are now terrified at the prospect of renewed ethnic cleaning against them, and Kurds become increasing worried about their future also.

For a better and more informed link................http://news.yahoo.com/sadrists-call-elections-iraq-145110273.html

I sure will not make any prediction, but my guess is, if Maliki does not find ways to defuse the tensions and rebuild his support, its may look very grim, as all paths forward
may lead to damned if they do and damned if they don't have new elections in Iraq.

As Al-Quida is now hard at work trying to destabilize Iraq.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
what no apology for your little misguided bitch fest?

At least when I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit it.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
what no apology for your little misguided bitch fest?

At least when I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit it.
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Just because those links that prove me right are not easy to find now, does not make me wrong and you right.

Then I post a link far more recent link today, and you have nothing to say.

Does your 20 year old contention make that recent link I posted and I did not write therefore false?
 
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