That last offensive play by the Seahawks? Bad call?

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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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I hate Monday morning quarterbacks. Every call that works is "of course, that was obvious" and every play that doesn't work is automatically a stupid call. If the play resulted in a TD they'd be claiming that they would have done the same thing because NE would be gearing up to stop the run. If Seattle handed off and got stuffed or fumbled the same idiots would be saying that the run was stupid and of course Seattle had to pass there because NE wouldn't be expecting the pass. Every play is a gamble and every play has a chance of backfiring. If the CB is 1/10th of a second later in recognizing the pick or lined up one step further outside or the pass thrown 1 foot further left then it's an easy TD and Carroll is a genius.

Eh, I don't agree.

There are PLENTY of cases where I'm watching a game, and a really stupid call is made and it works out despite all odds and common sense, but I still know it was a dumb call.

NE predictably loaded the box, but that still leaves plenty of opportunity to run the ball. Lots of time left, and the biggest weapons on that team are Lynch's and Wilson's legs on offense. He is not a great QB whatsoever for the type of play they called. As you noted, the ball was shot high and to the right of where it should have gone anyway. It was a playcall with a TON of downside if it didn't work perfectly.

Not every call that works is a smart call, and of course not every call that fails is a bad call.

Objectively, the call made in that game was bad. Not only that, but the decisions leading up to that point were horrendous.

Any student of the NFL knows that a hard running RB running plays pays dividends down the stretch if you commit to it. The defensive line gets worn down in almost all cases. We saw a textbook example of that this year with Murray for Dallas. Now Murray is not nearly as powerful as Lynch, but the Dallas O line is better, but the end result is the same. Early on you may see a lot of 2, 3, 4 yard gains, but often when 20+ runs have hit that line, you start to see him break into the secondary and start hitting 10+ yard runs.

At the very least, consecutive running plays take a considerable amount of time off the clock, as well as give the perfect setup for the keeper by Wilson for the edge rush when the defense stacks the box heavily. This is a setup that Dallas doesn't have because while Romo is 100x the pocket QB that Wilson is, Wilson is 100x the runner that Romo is.

But what happened when Seattle scored it's TD in the 3rd to go ahead by 2 scores? They were up 24-14 at that point. Next few series they continued to attempt low-margin passes heavily, which were the exact wrong plays to run. They took almost no time off the clock, and were the worst possible use of the opportunities given.

If you had to score the basic pros/cons of each team in regards to matchups, it's clear that trying a pass-heavy attack on NE was dumb as rocks considering that's Seattle's biggest weakness. They have a solid rushing game from both the QB and RB, they have good special teams, and they have good defense (that lessened considerably with the key injury early on vs the pass). The defense was called fairly decently though the bad offensive playcalling put them on the field for too long. The Zone was no longer fast enough to close in on the targets in the 4th quarter in an effective manner, so you saw a ton of Brady passes to targets where there was no defender within a crazy huge open space. Like candy from a baby at that point. The Seattle drives being long rush-heavy time wasters would have resulted in a fresher defensive set.

Nothing should take away from the Patriots playing an exceptionally solid and patient game. They put up 28 points on the Seattle defense despite two interceptions and a nearly complete lack of a rushing game.

On the Seattle side, the playcalling was overall terrible. Maybe worse than terrible, and it goes beyond that one supreme bonehead call. Wilson and his receivers are just not elite in the passing game. I'm sorry, but they're not. Sometimes great moments happen with them, but he is not Luck or Brady or Romo. He's a smart and fast guy who can put up competent numbers when he's in a balanced attack, but it has to start and end with the ground game. Period.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Dude's name is BEAST MODE.

His fuel is Skittles.

He had just tasted the rainbow.

You feed the beast.

So he can run 1 yard and grab his crotch while falling.

Pose of a Super Bowl repeat champ.
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,660
198
106
I think a pass was an ok call I just thought Wilson got a little tunnel vision and trying to force it to Lockette was poor judgment on his part.

Of course in all of this what seems to be lost is the fantastic play that Malcolm Butler made to get the interception.

But probably the most important thing is those blue & green d-bags lost.

-KeithP

-KeithP
 

JDawg1536

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2006
1,275
0
76
Horrible call. Under 30 seconds left and you're on the 1/2 yard line with a time out and the best RB in the league. Run the ball. If you get stuffed, call the timeout. Throw on 3rd down. If you fail, the clock is stopped. Now it's 4th down and you can run or pass.

Every team really needs to pay someone $80,000 a year and have their sole job to be management of the clock and timeouts.
 

JDawg1536

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2006
1,275
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But if you really want to blame someone, blame the receiver and his t-rex arms. If he extends to make that catch it is likely incomplete, and maybe a touchdown.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,658
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Yeah, I can't believe they didn't try a run play with Lynch on 2nd down and goal at the 1 yard line. Worst case is you lose 2nd down and burn more time off the clock, they had plenty of time but didn't want to leave New England with any time either. Even if you don't get in the end zone on second down you have 2 more downs and you eat more time off the clock.

I dont think Belicheck cared about time on the clock. I was surprised he didnt call a timeout himself when the clock was still at like 50 seconds. Guess he wanted his team to have a goal line stand and they did
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
Terrible call. Should have fed the beast.

I was screaming at the TV as soon as I saw the formation and before the snap. You've got the most violent, physical and grinding RB in the league. Let him do his thing.

This is different than the Seattle vs. GB. I'd put my faith on Rodger's arm before Lacy's plodding legs on those 1st & Goal possessions.
 

Stopsignhank

Platinum Member
Mar 1, 2014
2,337
1,530
136
Reminded me of another inside slant in the super bowl. Arizona versus Pittsburgh. The result? a 100 yard interception return for the Steelers.

Yeah, it was a dumb call. Don't forget Wilson has been known to run with it also. If you want to pass, fake to Lynch and have Wilson roll out on a bootleg.
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
4,345
1
0
The problem was not running the read option which still involves BM. Its what they've been winning with all year.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,834
8,302
136
But if you really want to blame someone, blame the receiver and his t-rex arms. If he extends to make that catch it is likely incomplete, and maybe a touchdown.
Blame the receiver, yeah, his not catching it after getting bumped a few inches was nothing compared to that poor Packer who muffed the onside kick two weeks previous. :'(
Under 30 seconds left and you're on the 1/2 yard line with a time out and the best RB in the league. Run the ball. If you get stuffed, call the timeout. Throw on 3rd down. If you fail, the clock is stopped. Now it's 4th down and you can run or pass.
Good points.
 
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JDawg1536

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2006
1,275
0
76
Lynch was averaging 4.3 yards a carry. 25 seconds with one timeout gave him at minimum two tries.

But if he gets stuffed twice then you give up the ability to run an extra play.

That's why they should have run on 2nd down, and if needed pass on 3rd down. That guarantees you three plays and you have the run/pass option on 4th down, obviously.
 

Sooon

Member
Oct 3, 2014
72
3
71
It was a bang bang play, but it was a bad throw, should have been closer to his back shoulder. In that situation, you have to put the ball where only your guy has a chance to get it. If you fail, you live to see another down.

Watching this gif, I'm not even sure if the WR catches it if the DB doesn't make a play on it, based on where his hands and the ball are right before the DB makes contact with him.

 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Bad call. NE knew the play from studying the Seahawk goal line offense and even NE's 7th defensive back knew what to do. Browner stoned the receiver that was going to pick Butler and Butler jumped the route.
 

JDawg1536

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2006
1,275
0
76
Yup, should have been thrown lower and more behind the receiver. Of course, it's easy to say sitting behind a keyboard. Poor throw, poor attempt by the receiver, and poor play call.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
Watching this gif, I'm not even sure if the WR catches it if the DB doesn't make a play on it, based on where his hands and the ball are right before the DB makes contact with him.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...yuoktyogku.gif

Not sure I had seen that view of it. It was always from backside of the play that I saw. Yeah, that was just a very bad throw in a very small window.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
it is pretty hilarious how russel wilson is getting like absolutely NO blame for this interception. everyone is blaming pete carrol.

if tom brady threw that interception, i can only imagine how many people would be on his nuts for throwing that interception.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,834
8,302
136
it is pretty hilarious how russel wilson is getting like absolutely NO blame for this interception. everyone is blaming pete carrol.

if tom brady threw that interception, i can only imagine how many people would be on his nuts for throwing that interception.
Wilson said it was his bad.
 

JDawg1536

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2006
1,275
0
76
That's what happens when you're classy. People tend not to dump on people who aren't dbags.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Bad call. The amount of yardage they needed for a touchdown is almost guaranteed with Marshawn Lynch. In fact, if he gets stuffed on second down, I'd hand it to him again on 3rd, and then again on 4th if necessary. If you need a guy to get you one yard, and you have Lynch on your team, how in the hell can there even be any question about it?

Lynch was rolling at this point too. After starting kind of slow in the first half, he was gashing the patriots in the second. It had gotten to the point where he was consistently getting positive yardage on every play they gave him the ball, which is something we've seen happen in the latter half of countless Seattle games. Running the ball there would have been both less risky and higher percentage for any team, but knowing what we know about Lynch's running style it seems like a foregone conclusion that they should run the ball there. I had already written it off as a touchdown in my mind and was wondering if they had given Brady enough time to do anything when Wilson threw the interception. My only thought was "Wait, they...threw the ball? Why...I don't..."

Couldnt have said it better myself.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,834
8,302
136
But if he gets stuffed twice then you give up the ability to run an extra play.

That's why they should have run on 2nd down, and if needed pass on 3rd down. That guarantees you three plays and you have the run/pass option on 4th down, obviously.
But the 3rd down pass call would have been obvious. Carroll's coordinator didn't like their odds of a 2nd down run working. They might have lost yardage, and if it came to a do or die 4th down, well, they might have had more than 1/2 yard to go.
 
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