The 2014 Formula1 Thread!

[_Rick_]

No one ever said that. What race were you watching?

The local announcer - though I think he did so with slightly less enthusiasm than usual. I found the music much worse and completely out of sync with what was going on.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

my mistake, it was not the usual guy. "and now to finish, the champagne" i think is what he said.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Found a link to video of Bianchi's crash. He's lucky to be alive quite frankly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ix-crash-left-F1-star-severe-head-injury.html

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Found a link to video of Bianchi's crash. He's lucky to be alive quite frankly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ix-crash-left-F1-star-severe-head-injury.html

yeah, that's the video i saw. i don't understand how he wasn't killed instantly. he's currently "critical but stable". good luck, jules.

i'm not sure what the answer to this situation is. solid steel skirts on all trackside trucks and tractors? doesn't seem very practical, but better than banning on-track equipment for overhead cranes only. nor would have the proposed front roll hoop have done anything to protect him.

i take no joy in the injury or death of others, but let's not forget that danger is a major reason why people get into motorsport in the first place. if it were 100% safe, these guys would find somewhere else to get their jollies. racing has come a long way in protecting people from the consequences of their dangerous hobby/occupation, but it remains "the cruel sport".

 

[The Boston Dangler]

i agree with tiff needell on some points:

Always remember Andrea for one of Murray's famous gaffs 'He's won more Grand Prixs than anyone without actually winning one' - he meant led!

Don't think Massa's comments help. If he thought there was too much water why didn't he pit for full wets ...

because massa is a nice guy but a chronic complainer. niki lauda had the balls to park his car when the rain in japan got too much for him (strange that not risking your life foolishly would require more courage than racing in a monsoon).

Before any changes are made we must understand this isn't just about cars hitting cranes it's also about cars hitting marshals.

Choice is either full USA and deploy safety car for every incident or draconian measure for not 'slowing and preparing to stop' under yellow

i cannot see f1 or fans buying a full-course yellow for every little thing.

 

[_Rick_]

Found a link to video of Bianchi's crash. He's lucky to be alive quite frankly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ix-crash-left-F1-star-severe-head-injury.html

Woah, he's coming in quite hot there, and of course, head-first into the engine block. Luckily he was slightly offset, and got pushed a bit to the right, but his head still took a major part of the impact.

Judging by that footage and reports so far, it's pretty clear his career is over - if he's lucky he'll survive the next 24 months, and will be on his way to relearning walking and talking.

This looks like a higher-speed version of the De Villota incident - very spooky.

 

[LTC8K6]

The bar that's on the back of those 18 wheeler trailers, to keep you from going under them, would probably have helped. It could have a small protector on it, too.

 

[_Rick_]

i cannot see f1 or fans buying a full-course yellow for every little thing.

I don't think you need them in "normal conditions". But if you have changing conditions, sudden surface changes, you should get the safety car out. And even that doesn't always help, as we've seen this weekend.

Implementing fixed pit-limiter speed limits in double-yellow sectors would be another option, one step short of a full course caution, but the tires cooling down would in itself present a hazard.

I think what needs to be reviewed is when safety cars are called, and when they are not, and a ruling has to be agreed upon. Having this be up to the race director on a case-by-case basis is probably not a good idea (but he should be able to override the rulings in favor of a safety car)

Safety cars should also be made less invasive. Instead of allowing everyone to unlap themselves, lapped cars should filter back until there is a gap between leading-lap cars that exceeded five seconds before the full course caution. That way they're not in the way of the previous battles, but don't have to race around a circuit that is under caution either, or move very far at all. Clearing Sutil's car would have probably taken a single safety car lap (+out and in) to be finished. It would also have allowed the teams to switch to wet tires, given the potential for aquaplaning.

Skirts on the recovery vehicles also wouldn't be too awkward, but as pointed out, stewards would still be exposed.

As I said in an earlier post, for each circuit, each corner, clear safety car deployment rules have to be laid out, and followed. In Silverstone the race was red-flagged because some armco along a straight was damaged. Here, the safety car was not deployed, despite a similarly grave reduction in track limit safety, and much worse driving conditions. These inconsistencies have to be resolved.

Maybe medium sized mobile cranes should be used, which can be parked behind the tire barrier, and have enough reach to get to any car that made it as far as the barrier, with minimal exposure of stewards to recover the vehicle. This would be logistically easier than using big cranes everywhere, and these vehicles would not be significantly less mobile than the currently used tractors. Also, accidents such as the one in Montreal in 2013 can be avoided by using cranes that lift the vehicles across the barriers, as opposed to towing them out, going backwards.

There are a number of options to increase safety, and I don't think the FIA can afford not to do anything about these dangerous situations, since this type of accident is striking from time to time, and can be mitigated relatively easily. It's just tragic, that it took an accident of this magnitude (especially given Brundle's experience 20 years ago, and the Canada accident) to review the procedures for recovery of crashed cars.

 

[Railgun]

The bar that's on the back of those 18 wheeler trailers, to keep you from going under them, would probably have helped. It could have a small protector on it, too.

They would have to be at ground level to be sure.

He was coming into that corner extremely fast. Way too fast than conditions would have allowed. Sutil wasn't even close to being that fast in the barrier.

To be sure, this is a case of wrong place at the wrong time. IMHO, the only thing that could have been done was an immediate SC for that incident. With the rain coming down harder by that point, it seemed to make sense.

I too agree that there was some driver error here.

 

[merlion]

Some interesting reading on the Bianchi accident:

http://thejudge13.com/2014/10/07/f1-daily-news-and-comment-tuesday-7th-october-2014/

http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/2271/

The injury Jules sustained is Diffuse Axonal Injury (DAI)

Quote from the Former F1 Doc blog - "DAI is usually associated with a somber prognosis. Jules is young, strong, and is being cared for by a superb team. C’mon Jules. Go for it."

Let's hope for the best possible recovery for Jules.

 

[JulesMaximus]

They would have to be at ground level to be sure.

He was coming into that corner extremely fast. Way too fast than conditions would have allowed. Sutil wasn't even close to being that fast in the barrier.

To be sure, this is a case of wrong place at the wrong time. IMHO, the only thing that could have been done was an immediate SC for that incident. With the rain coming down harder by that point, it seemed to make sense.

I too agree that there was some driver error here.

To be fair, that is a pretty fast part of the course. Those corners unwind allowing you to just accelerate out of them.

The track wasn't as wet when Sutil crashed so he was probably able to scrub off some speed before he hit the barriers.

Was he going too fast for conditions given the fact that there was also a double yellow (or so they say) at that corner? No doubt.

BTW-Did anyone else notice in the video that a marshall on the hill above the tractor is waving a green flag?

 

[LTC8K6]

They would have to be at ground level to be sure.

He was coming into that corner extremely fast. Way too fast than conditions would have allowed. Sutil wasn't even close to being that fast in the barrier.

To be sure, this is a case of wrong place at the wrong time. IMHO, the only thing that could have been done was an immediate SC for that incident. With the rain coming down harder by that point, it seemed to make sense.

I too agree that there was some driver error here.

Do we know that he didn't have a brake failure?

 

[LTC8K6]

I agree with the idea that if a driver thought conditions were too bad, then that driver should have made the strongest statement possible, and stopped racing.

If Massa had stopped racing before the incident, people would probably be listening to him about the conditions.

 

[Koing]

until the crash, i thought the race was pretty good. rosberg should have eaten the extra stop and changed his worn tires before hamilton passed, and then he stayed out even longer, losing more time.

there was a ton of skill on display all over the place, although the fia did leave the initial safety car (rain) out too long once again. just as they leave it out too long for mid-race incidents. notice how, before a rain delay, they always runs a few laps to make the event officially taking place - no refunds for the fans, the track or the tv companies.

the event announcer cluelessly went through his regular podium script, with "and now, THE CHAMPAGNE!!!!!". at least the drivers had the class to not spray, but they should not have even raised or sipped the mandatory bubbly. champagne is for celebrating good times, not for serious head injuries.

I thought the podium was subdued.

Koing

 

[The Boston Dangler]

To be fair, that is a pretty fast part of the course. Those corners unwind allowing you to just accelerate out of them.

The track wasn't as wet when Sutil crashed so he was probably able to scrub off some speed before he hit the barriers.

Was he going too fast for conditions given the fact that there was also a double yellow (or so they say) at that corner? No doubt.

BTW-Did anyone else notice in the video that a marshall on the hill above the tractor is waving a green flag?

it's a trick of the camera. the marshal in the green flag zone was past the accident area. the strange thing is not where, but when: the green flag was waved in the correct area, but immediately after bianchi's crash. the marshals were shown looking behind the tractor and waving their arms in the same shot as the green flag (lap 43-44, 1 hour 54 minutes).

 

[Koing]

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2011/3/11880.html

Crazy. The helmets are a SERIOUS piece of kit.

"A mere 1,200 gram carbon-fibre shell that can withstand the crushing force of a 55-tonne tank without deforming, and an 800 degree Celsius fire for 30 seconds without its interior rising above 70 degrees Celsius"

Jules is VERY lucky to be alive after a crash like that. Good luck Jules!

Koing

 

[The Boston Dangler]

there seems to be some good news from schumacher, at least:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/07/michael-schumacher-formula-one-jean-todt

Michael Schumacher should soon be able to “lead a relatively normal life again”, according to Jean Todt, the FIA president and former Ferrari chief executive.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

https://twitter.com/InsideFerrari

 

[JulesMaximus]

Alonso and Vettel to go to... McLaren?

http://en.espnf1.com/blogs/motorsport/story/178623.html

Vettel and Alonso: The next McLaren dream team?

I have it on good authority that both Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso recently flew into Farnborough on different days. On each occasion, they were scooped up by Mercedes vehicles and whisked away without ceremony. The McLaren Technology Centre is 15 miles east of the private airport.

Do you see where I'm coming from? Or, more to the point, where they might have been going to? To the best of my knowledge, neither Seb or Fernando have relatives or mates in Surrey they might have been calling on for afternoon tea.

The obvious implication is that McLaren were/are talking to the drivers individually. But here's a thought: An Alonso/Vettel partnership in the mould of Senna/Prost is the sort of thing Ron Dennis dreams of and perhaps explains what I thought to be a contented look during his interview with Martin Brundle for Sky F1 last weekend.

Thinking about it further, Vettel has not actually said he's going to Ferrari; Christian Horner has done it for him - but mainly through innuendo. On the other hand, Ferrari's Marco Mattiacci made no comment, which suggests discussions with Vettel are on-going. Were that not the case and a McLaren/Vettel deal had been done, Mattiacci would surely have issued a strong rebuttal, if only to take the heat off the inference that Sebastian would be replacing Fernando.

Forget the thought that Alonso wouldn't want to return to McLaren after the debacle over Spygate. Fernando is, above all, a ruthless pragmatist, as is Dennis. The 2007 season was a long time ago in racing terms and, as Sir Frank Williams used to say when a fib had been exposed: "circumstances change".

The biggest change, of course, is the return of Honda in 2015. This may not be 1988 when Honda arrived at McLaren and swept all before them; the competition is ten times stronger for a start and the power unit package infinitely more complex. But word has it that the work done so far in Japan is mighty impressive and Honda have had more technical freedom than Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari to incorporate the latest know-how into the 2015 power unit. As Dennis said in the Sky F1 interview: "Honda's commitment is mind-blowing. The engine is a piece of jewellery. It's performing better than expected by this time in the development programme. The competitiveness of the engine is going to be, without question, for 2015."

In any case, McLaren-Honda has to be a better potential bet than Ferrari in its current state. Which leads to the obvious question: why on earth would Vettel want to go to Maranello right now? Personally, I don't believe the cache of racing for Ferrari is a strong enough incentive, although I do agree there would be some merit in wishing to get away from the smiling and very quick Daniel Ricciardo at the other side of the Red Bull garage.

So, how about a move to McLaren-Honda instead, even if Alonso is in the other car? Racing drivers being racing drivers, Vettel will believe he can beat Fernando just as surely as Alonso thinks he could see off Seb. You have to say it was 50-50 when they were at each other's throats during that terrific struggle at Silverstone.

"We want the most competitive drivers available," Dennis told Brundle in response to a question about Alonso. "Of course, Fernando is one of them. I've talked to every driver in the pit lane - well, let's say, at the top end of the pit lane. There is no impediment to Lewis coming back, Fernando coming back, Jenson and Kevin staying. We have options."

Dennis then rounded off his interview (the full 42-minute version is well-worth watching, by the way) with a telling comment when discussing McLaren drivers past and present.

"What a privilege to work with so many world champions, share the successes and see them win in a McLaren car," said Ron. "It's just great." Then a brief pause, before adding with that wolfish grin. "And it's going to happen again in the future."

Alonso and Vettel? You can bet it's crossed Ron's mind more than once.

 

[foghorn67]

Alonso and Vettel to go to... McLaren?

http://en.espnf1.com/blogs/motorsport/story/178623.html

I would love for that to happen. There is no better than Seb and Alonso.
(I do find myself rooting for Kimi and Lewis quite often).
I would also love for Honda to be competitive.

That means Williams has another year with a competitive power plant. Maybe this years front runners need to worry about Bottas and Massa. I don't think this year is a fluke at Williams. The talent is there. The driver's, the garage and the factory.

 

[tweakmonkey]

I thought vettel is going to ferrari ?

 

[_Rick_]

I thought vettel is going to ferrari ?

Someone in a comment thread somewhere proposed the following idea:

Today, there is/was a meeting of the manufacturers, deciding whether the engine freeze will be lifted. If the engine freeze gets lifted, Vettel will go to Ferrari, who can improve their engine for next year, and maybe have a competitive car. If the freeze remains in place, it's off to McLaren, who get a Honda engine that can build on the knowledge of what it takes to be competitive and match or exceed the Mercedes engine, especially if the latter remains frozen.

The other thing, that's also a possibility, is that drivers wait for a final word on whether there'll be three-car teams next season. If there were, this would change the whole drivers market dynamic.

From a logical point of view, announcing anything before these two points are hammered out would be foolish.

Alternatively, Ferrari is waiting for di Montezemolo to effectively leave office before making the announcement, since this may be a decision that he didn't back, or it serves as laurels to the new management. Or they don't want to devalue Alonso, who, if he does leave, will not be able to make as liberal demands as he believes he can make, since only McLaren would take him on.

I think it will soon be clear which of those factors prevents Vettel from making an announcement where he'll be driving.

Edit:
Also, no second Marussia car in Russia. A bit of a shame, but then the shock to the team, and the logistics of getting a new car ready inside a week under these circumstances are factors you have to account for.

 

[KingstonU]

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2011/3/11880.html

Crazy. The helmets are a SERIOUS piece of kit....

And they say they are currently working on the next step up from the current Zylon material,
and that research is going into transparent ceramics.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

And they say they are currently working on the next step up from the current Zylon material,
and that research is going into transparent ceramics.

you mean like...glass?

 

[JulesMaximus]

I thought vettel is going to ferrari ?

That's what Christian Horner said. So far, Vettel hasn't said where he is going and neither has Ferrari confirmed their driver lineup for next season.