The 480: power consumption, PCI-E powerdraw

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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
So still above spec after 16.7.1?

Solution 1

Now to be fair, that 70-watt number is still higher than the 5.5A rating that the PCI Express specification puts forth (calculates to 66W), but AMD has move things much closer with this release.

With the original launch driver we saw the PEG slot pulling 6.8A or more, with the 6-pin pulling closer to 6.6A. On 16.7.1 the PEG slot draw rate drops to 6.1-6.2A. Again, that is still above the 5.5A rated maximum for the slot, but the drop is significant.

Solution 2 (Compatibility Mode)

Current still doesn’t make it down to 5.5A in our testing, but the PEG slot is now pulling 5.75A in our worst case scenario, more than a full amp lower than measured with the 16.6.2 launch driver.

www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-RX-480-Power-Consumption-Concerns-Fixed-1671-Driver
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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It will come from each in proportion to the extra needed. They just changed the gains of the three phases attached to the 6 pin so they take more of the load, but the load is still shared.

So before it was like 50-50 slot vs 6 pin and now it's like 30-70?
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
I guess, it's still over the spec, but to a more reasonable extent,
but overclocking should still be problematic,

the definitive solution is to have 8 pin (or 2 6 pin), and lower even further the slot 12v usage...
 

PhonakV30

Senior member
Oct 26, 2009
987
378
136

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
I don't know What I should say about his Quote.I leave Sweepr alone.

That's his personal opinion, after saying it's still above specs:

Should these issues have been discovered and fixed before releasing and selling the Radeon RX 480 to the consumer? Absolutely. Is the power phase weighting adjustment and Compatibility Mode combination enough to make the card at or under spec for ALL workloads? Based on my testing, no. But I do believe that AMD has done it’s best to address the power consumption concerns without a hit to performance, getting the RX 480 to a much more reasonable power situation.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,584
1,743
136
So before it was like 50-50 slot vs 6 pin and now it's like 30-70?

Not quite. The 6pin phases now have 25.5% more current than the other phases, so it would be closer to a 44-66 ratio. You can manually make it a little higher (30.8%) by typing in "MSIAfterburner /wi06,08,1E,FF" and "MSIAfterburner /wi06,08,1F,F0", but that's on you.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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Not quite. The 6pin phases now have 25.5% more current than the other phases, so it would be closer to a 44-66 ratio. You can manually make it a little higher (30.8%) by typing in "MSIAfterburner /wi06,08,1E,FF" and "MSIAfterburner /wi06,08,1F,F0", but that's on you.

Oh sweet. So if you have one of those PSUs where the 6 pin is also a 8 pin then you can force the OC wattage mostly through the 6 pin?

Is there any advantage to a real 8 pin over this "fix?"
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
Oh sweet. So if you have one of those PSUs where the 6 pin is also a 8 pin then you can force the OC wattage mostly through the 6 pin?

Is there any advantage to a real 8 pin over this "fix?"

the 6 pin connector and wires usually can handle a lot more than the PCIE specs for the connector, so having the 8 pin would make it official at least, but I would guess, to make it ideal safely (like 50W or lower on the PCIE like most cards) it would also require some re-design on the PCB, with the power components, and that's why they probably can't push it to much on the connector with these cards!?
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,354
5,012
136
Oh sweet. So if you have one of those PSUs where the 6 pin is also a 8 pin then you can force the OC wattage mostly through the 6 pin?

Is there any advantage to a real 8 pin over this "fix?"

Real 8 pin would have lower resistance over 6 pin. For effective overclocking of RX 480 I don't think it'll make much difference.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Real 8 pin would have lower resistance over 6 pin. For effective overclocking of RX 480 I don't think it'll make much difference.

Yeah that is what I am thinking. I could just put a new cooler on my 480, shift the OC power burden to the six pin, and hit the same ceiling a AIB 8 pin model could right?
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
This could only be an issue for miners. Gamers are safe

Why would it be any worst for the miners running 4 to 6 cards per motherboard? The theoretical issue is so small I doubt even running 6 cards would be any more an issue with cheap motherboards shorting than it is now with other cards. Or just run powered riser cables and forget about it like most do already.

All that to say miners are quite safe also.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,584
1,743
136
Why would it be any worst for the miners running 4 to 6 cards per motherboard? The theoretical issue is so small I doubt even running 6 cards would be any more an issue with cheap motherboards shorting than it is now with other cards. Or just run powered riser cables and forget about it like most do already.

All that to say miners are quite safe also.

Depends. If they're using powered risers they're fine. If they're not using powered risers and are running 6 cards, bad things will probably happen to their 24 pin connector.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
Depends. If they're using powered risers they're fine. If they're not using powered risers and are running 6 cards, bad things will probably happen to their 24 pin connector.

Yeah, I've run up to 5 cards without powered risers when they were too hard to find, but at up to 375watts (or 450@6x75)through the motherboard I wouldn't suggest it if people are squeamish about just one little 480 LOL.
 

Wall Street

Senior member
Mar 28, 2012
691
44
91
Oh sweet. So if you have one of those PSUs where the 6 pin is also a 8 pin then you can force the OC wattage mostly through the 6 pin?

Is there any advantage to a real 8 pin over this "fix?"

The real 8-pin AIB boards should draw all of the Vcore power from the PSU cable and will only draw 20-30 watts from the motherboard, so those will be better especially for Crossfire.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
I guess, it's still over the spec, but to a more reasonable extent,
but overclocking should still be problematic,

the definitive solution is to have 8 pin (or 2 6 pin), and lower even further the slot 12v usage...

No, it's not.

The 75W rating for 6-pin and 150W rating for the 8-pin are not true ratings.

The six-pin connector uses two +12 V wires to carry up to 75 W, whereas the eight-pin connector uses three +12 V wires to carry up to 150 W. Although these figures are what the specifications allow, the wires and terminals of each connector are technically capable of handling much more power. Each pin in the PCI Express auxiliary power connectors is rated to handle up to 8 amps of current using standard terminals—more if using HCS or Plus HCS terminals. By counting the number of terminals, you can calculate the power-handling capability of the connector.

If you actually looked up the detailed specs for 6-pin graphics connector, you'd see that most modern PSUs made in the last 10 years can provide 192-288W of power for it:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/power-supply-specifications-atx-reference,review-32338-12.html

My R9 295X2 has been mining for a long time now and it draws way more power than its 375W rating suggests (75W PCIe + 150Wx 2 for each 8-pin). The 75W 6-pin and 150W 8-pin "paper" spec maximum are misleading and incorrect. What's more, modern PSUs that provide the 6-pin connector are usually made from a 6+2 split (i.e., an 8-pin cable) to allow for compatibility. That means the actual cable which is being used to provide power to the RX480 is rated to withstand at least 288W. (Using Std. Terminals (W))

In conclusion, unless you are buying a $10-20 PSU, there should be no issues.

Why would it be any worst for the miners running 4 to 6 cards per motherboard? The theoretical issue is so small I doubt even running 6 cards would be any more an issue with cheap motherboards shorting than it is now with other cards. Or just run powered riser cables and forget about it like most do already.

All that to say miners are quite safe also.

Because there is a group of users on these forums that have 0 experience with mining or running 900W-1000W GPUs on a 1000W Platinum PSU. They have no real world experience running mining rigs for years to know what load a modern mobo and PSU can actually handle. A 1000W EVGA or Corsair or SeaSonic PSU should be able to handle 5 or even 6 RX 480s mining @ 100% load 24/7 without a sweat (assuming it has enough PCIe cables/connectors).

Also, the older generation of PC gamers created so many myths that have stayed around. For instance, how a "GPU degrades over time", which we know is absolutely false. The amount of electro-migration is so immaterial that by the time a GPU fails from natural causes due to "being warn out", it'll be surpassed by a $50 GPU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZUshOSWQRo

The reason some CPUs cannot hold their overclocks after 5-7 years long-term is because people have been running them overvolted beyond spec, which exponentially accelerated electromigration. Of course we also have the blower myth. Another myth from the old days is that you shouldn't run your PSU loaded by more than 75-80% of its max load or it'll "die a premature death." Fact of the matter is high quality PSUs are actually rated to run at 50C 24/7 max spec loaded. That's why there is warranty too. Most good PSUs now have 7-10 year warranties, mobos have 3 years.

Gigabyte RX 480 = 3 year warranty
Asus RX 480 = 3 year warranty

The fear mongering is out of control.

I had SeaSonic PCIe cables burn out due to early batches failing to meet spec, and SeaSonic sent me all new PCIe and 24-pin cables for free within a week.

That's why one of the most important components in a high quality PC is the PSU. If you are building a $700+ PC and buying a $20-30 PSU for it, it's your fault if things burn out.
 
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dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
138
106
Well... seems that it's time to leave. AMD has nothing to combat nVIDIA in any aspect, except drivers... if they could entered in the South American market ....
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,388
12,812
136
AMD Executives: We want you to give 110% to the new RX480!
AMD Engineers: Got it, boss!
AMD Engineers show off new 480 cards.
AMD Executives: We didn't mean wattage.
AMD Engineers: OH, it's 110% out of thin air! Please relay this request to Marketing.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
Looking at results from new drivers this is AMD release fail all over again. Why not release it with compatibility mode at default and loose the 3% but be in spec, avoid bad rep and also show much lower power usage. Then offer a "Gaming mode" which they now call standard as a feature.

3% performance for 20% more power is a stupid trade-off. What were they thinking? Or are other games affected more?
 

sirmo

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2011
1,014
391
136
Looking at results from new drivers this is AMD release fail all over again. Why not release it with compatibility mode at default and loose the 3% but be in spec, avoid bad rep and also show much lower power usage. Then offer a "Gaming mode" which they now call standard as a feature.

3% performance for 20% more power is a stupid trade-off. What were they thinking? Or are other games affected more?
As an owner of an rx480 I think they handled the situation in the best possible way.

They shifted the power draw to the 6-pin which can more than handle it without taking anything away. 10 more watts is nothing and I will likely exceed multiple times that when I OC.

They also fixed a complicated issue in under a week. Pretty awesome turn around time. Actually really impressed with AMD's driver team. This year they have been on point.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
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Looking at results from new drivers this is AMD release fail all over again. Why not release it with compatibility mode at default and loose the 3% but be in spec, avoid bad rep and also show much lower power usage. Then offer a "Gaming mode" which they now call standard as a feature.

3% performance for 20% more power is a stupid trade-off. What were they thinking? Or are other games affected more?

This is really the weirdest part of this whole thing to me.

Either AMD didn't know the RX 480 was overspec, which seems rather impossible given that every single site out there who does isolated power tests on the GPU (instead of system level power tests), found the RX 480 to be overspec, so this was hardly an isolated incident.

Alternatively AMD knew about but either thought it wasn't an issue (which obviously isn't the case given their later response), or thought no one would find out (which is just plain stupid given that sites like THG have been doing in depth power test for quite a while now).

I guess this is just a case of AMD being AMD (great hardware, crappy communication/PR)
 
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Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
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This is really the weirdest part of this whole thing to me.

Either AMD didn't know the RX 480 was overspec, which seems rather impossible given that every single site out there who does isolated power tests on the GPU alone (instead of system level power tests), found the RX 480 to be overspec, so this was hardly an isolated incident.

Alternatively AMD knew about but either thought it wasn't an issue (which obviously isn't the case given their later response), or thought no one would find out (which is just plain stupid given that sites like THG have been doing in depth power test for quite a while now).

I guess this is just a case of AMD being AMD (great hardware, crappy communication/PR)

They created a new wattage tool and performance / power levels in Wattman. Obviously there was just a bug in it which caused it to pull too much power and they've changed how it works with the last driver release.

Problem with new software is it can be buggy
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
They created a new wattage tool and performance / power levels in Wattman. Obviously there was just a bug in it which caused it to pull too much power and they've changed how it works with the last driver release.

Problem with new software is it can be buggy

But then why didn't they test their new software before releasing it?

One would assume that when you make a new wattage tool, the first thing you test is the actual bloody wattage!
 
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