The 6700/6700k are neglected CPUs for budget builds and the 6600k is a farce.

[RussianSensation]

Given how much better the 2600k is holding up over a 2500k today, and how slow CPUs are advancing, you could very easily keep a 6700k for years longer than a 6600k due to the 8 threads. 100% worth the small increase in price.

The issue with 6600K, even overclocked, is that in CPU demanding games, the i7 6700's per core/thread CPU usage is much lower than the i5's. Notably, the i5's per core/thread usage often spikes to 80-90% range. This may imply that as next generation games come out between 2016-2021, and these games are even more CPU demanding and more multi-threaded, the chance that the i5 will become a bottleneck increases greatly.

6700 non-K > i5 6600K @ 4.6Ghz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9cVxka2fns

For simplicity sake, even if we take the $339 6700K and $239 6600K, assuming 50% resale value for both after 4 years, we get total cost of ownership of:

($339 6700K - $339 * 0.5 resale) - ($239 6600K - $239 * 0.5 resale) = $50 total or $50 / 4 years = $12.5 per year

Once we substitute the $304 6700 into the same equation = $32.50 overall or $8.13 per year

When we break things down like that, i5 6600K is not that great actually. The $100 price difference over 4-5 years works out to much less. I do understand that not everyone resells old parts but for those of us who do, the $100 price difference is NOT the actual cost difference of owning the product. I am not sure if it's fair to penalize the 6600K for the cost of an after-market cooler because many gamers already have one from a previous build. However, if building a new system from scratch, the after-market CPU cooler even at $15-20 only further erodes the 'value' equation of the 6600K.

After doing these TCO (total cost of ownership) calculations based on my personal experience owning Core i7 860 and Core i5 2500K, I actually built 2x 6700K systems because the 6600K just doesn't seem like a good value. If I wanted to go i5, I'd get the i5 6400 and simply overclock it. Many Z170 boards have non-K overclocking bioses available for download.
http://overclocking.guide/intel-skylake-non-k-overclocking-bios-list/

This forum and many other tech forums continue to overhype i5s since 2500K days (I fell into this trap myself). The experience of 2600K vs. 2500K alone should be enough to suggest that on the verge of 2017, the i5-6600K/7600K isn't as great of a long-term (4-5 years) play as it seems. IMHO, the foundation for a great gaming build over the next 4-5 years should be 5820K/6800K or 6700/6700K.

 

[Thinker_145]

Maybe my wording wasn't exactly spot on I really should have said "mid range" instead of budget in my title. A $350 budget for motherboard, CPU and cooler is by no means high end and is certainly mid range. It also means the user has serious budget limitations so hence I used the term budget.

Mid range gamers don't quite realize how ridiculously long a CPU can last and squeezing just a little more money would change so much in the future. I know I would bought a Core 2 Quad in 2007 had I really known how it's fate was going to be so much better than Core 2 Duo. Even though I couldn't afford a Core 2 Quad I would have waited longer to get more money had I truly known the difference in longevity.

I was not targeting those who buy a 6500 in this thread. Going from that to 6700 still requires a rather significant increase in budget and at those price points people are generally not in the position to immediately increase the budget by $100. The only ridiculous thing to see would be the 6500 paired with an expensive motherboard which I don't really see.

On the other hand I have seen 6600K builds with $200 motherboards and $80 coolers. The latter is quite common actually and I am sure many of them are borne out of misunderstanding. Generally a 6600K buyer with a Z170 board and reasonable cooling isn't someone who is so constrained by budget that they can't possibly make a 6700K+Z170 build. If they can't then enter the 6700 which does not force you to buy an expensive board so you end up at the same price as the 6600K+Z170.

I suppose if anything the 6700 is the most neglected CPU. There seems to be confusion on what it's real multi-core load frequency is but at 3.7Ghz it sure sounds pretty damn good. To me it makes a lot more sense than OC 6600K. And when you think about it with a standard overclock to 4.5Ghz can you even justify the 6700K over 6700? I think without giving value to having a full size board and Z170 features I think you can't really purely in terms of performance.

 

[Thinker_145]

To add to what I said in the OP this is how CPU, motherboard and cooling requirements should be prioritized.

i3 6100 + minimum board = $170(starting point of PC gaming)
i5 6500 + minimum board = $250
i7 6700 + minimum board = $350
i7 6700K + minimum board + minimum cooling = $400
i7 6700K + minimum Z170 board + good cooling = $500
i7 6700K + decent Z170 board + good cooling = $550

Heading into high end Z170 boards and premium cooling you are now into entry level X99 territory so things get more complicated there but I think the list I made is pretty much spot on.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

IMHO, the foundation for a great gaming build over the next 4-5 years should be 5820K/6800K or 6700/6700K.

It will be a sad day when this is what passes for "budget" gaming rigs. Agree with much of what you posted but the games being used to max out 6700k are the most demanding and not necessarily representative of the larger gaming landscape. The settings being used are also close to worst case scenario.

There will always be games and settings that can cripple even the most expensive GPU or CPU. I don't think ensuring this pitfall is minimized is the point for most gamers. That's "enthusiast" territory. Most average gamers want most of the games to run well on their mid range equipment. Budget gamers are trying to do the same with less money and are happy if their rig meets recommended specs.

Right here, right now, with our current crop of games, the i5 6500 is a good bet for anyone trying to build on a budget.

 

[Thinker_145]

But unlike other high end parts a high end CPU really isn't actually worse value\$ in the long term. High end motherboards, high speed ram and premium cooling are the sort of stuff which offer poor value for money and should only be explored with really big budgets.

The process of upgrading a CPU should also be taken into account. 3 years from now if you want to upgrade the 6500, the i7 CPUs available for your platform would be so over priced relatively that it just wouldn't make sense to buy them. Your ram may or may not be compatible with newer platforms. In any case you lose money on the resale of your motherboard and CPU and have to do a windows reinstall.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

But unlike other high end parts a high end CPU really isn't actually worse value\$ in the long term. High end motherboards, high speed ram and premium cooling are the sort of stuff which offer poor value for money and should only be explored with really big budgets.

The process of upgrading a CPU should also be taken into account. 3 years from now if you want to upgrade the 6500, the i7 CPUs available for your platform would be so over priced relatively that it just wouldn't make sense to buy them. Your ram may or may not be compatible with newer platforms. In any case you lose money on the resale of your motherboard and CPU and have to do a windows reinstall.

Yes, both you and RS make perfectly valid points. The problem is for folks on a budget it means the difference between having a computer and just settling for a PS4.

Also, have you checked out the price delta between an i7 2600k and an i5 2500k? We're talking $30-40. So the guy/gal who made the "mistake" of buying an i5 can swap in an i7 for less money than the original msrp price spread and get more years out of the box. At this rate it will probably outlast most of the components it's attached to.

 

[coercitiv]

6700 non-K > i5 6600K @ 4.6Ghz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9cVxka2fns

Performance in a CPU intensive title as Witcher 3? Indeed, the difference is quite surprising, must be the "mainstream" GPU holding us back:

What about when GPU gets the big upgrade?

Alas, the wind of change has caught up with the thread title and we are no longer talking about budget gaming rigs, but rather about "mid range" and "great" gaming builds. Hence, I leave you with one final thought to ponder on: would the 5 year old overclocked 2500K not be enough to still feed a modern $250 card in a game like Witcher 3?

Also, have you checked out the price delta between an i7 2600k and an i5 2500k? We're talking $30-40. So the guy/gal who made the "mistake" of buying an i5 can swap in an i7 for less money than the original msrp price spread and get more years out of the box. At this rate it will probably outlast most of the components it's attached to.

What are you doing?! Don't fight fire with fire!

 

[Thinker_145]

Yes, both you and RS make perfectly valid points. The problem is for folks on a budget it means the difference between having a computer and just settling for a PS4.

Also, have you checked out the price delta between an i7 2600k and an i5 2500k? We're talking $30-40. So the guy/gal who made the "mistake" of buying an i5 can swap in an i7 for less money than the original msrp price spread and get more years out of the box. At this rate it will probably outlast most of the components it's attached to.

Forget about the price delta. Show me how you will upgrade from selling a 2500K to a 2600K brand new for $100 which was the launch price difference!

You know you can't just "swap" out the 2500K and get your money back lol.

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Forget about the price delta. Show me how you will upgrade from selling a 2500K to a 2600K brand new for $100 which was the launch price difference!
You know you can't just "swap" out the 2500K and get your money back lol.

No one would even attempt to buy a 2600k new at this point. Madness.

A used 2500k sells on ebay for around $100.- A used 2600k sells for around $140.- I'll let you do the math.

For a BUDGET gamer they would have saved money on the front end and by waiting. Since they can most certainly still play almost any game title with their 2500k they could wait even longer until the price spread is more like $20 to $30. That's value shopping right there.

 

[Thinker_145]

No one would even attempt to buy a 2600k new at this point. Madness.

A used 2500k sells on ebay for around $100.- A used 2600k sells for around $140.- I'll let you do the math.

For a BUDGET gamer they would have saved money on the front end and by waiting. Since they can most certainly still play almost any game title with their 2500k they could wait even longer until the price spread is more like $20 to $30. That's value shopping right there.

So if we are to resort to buying used products why did we buy a new 2500K in the first place?? A gamer who buys used parts stays on them. The used argument can never be used to discredit the value(or lack of) of new products!

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[coercitiv]

So if we are to resort to buying used products why did we buy a new 2500K in the first place?? A gamer who buys used parts stays on them. The used argument can never be used to discredit the value(or lack of) of new products!

You are discussing TCO over system lifespan, and the proposed upgrade is merely an efficient backup plan in case the 2500K fails to deliver... after 5 years of usage.

Btw, what's your opinion on the i5 2500k, do you think it can still decently play modern games? Here's some insights, judge for yourself.

 

[Thinker_145]

You are discussing TCO over system lifespan, and the proposed upgrade is merely an efficient backup plan in case the 2500K fails to deliver... after 5 years of usage.

Btw, what's your opinion on the i5 2500k, do you think it can still decently play modern games? Here's some insights, judge for yourself.

I didn't say that it's not good for gaming right now. The fact is the 2600K is doing better and will still likely be going strong when the 2500K is literally dead.

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[coercitiv]

I didn't say that it's not good for gaming right now. The fact is the 2600K is doing better and will still likely be going strong when the 2500K is literally dead.

Gamers beware, your 6600k might not be able to play modern games in the next 6-7 years. Plan ahead!

The only argument I am prepared to fully accept for the foreseeable future is that new CPUs may finally get an uniform increase in thread count, meaning i5 prices for 6c/6t or 4c/8t. That will lead to a sudden increase in computing power and allow developers to target more performance at the same price point. However, this argument also destroys the idea of long term system usage and optimized TCO, since a 50-100% increase in throughput will leave a long trail of obsolete CPUs, mainstream leaders included.

 

[Thinker_145]

Gamers beware, your 6600k might not be able to play modern games in the next 6-7 years. Plan ahead!

The only argument I am prepared to fully accept for the foreseeable future is that new CPUs may finally get an uniform increase in thread count, meaning i5 prices for 6c/6t or 4c/8t. That will lead to a sudden increase in computing power and allow developers to target more performance at the same price point. However, this argument also destroys the idea of long term system usage and optimized TCO, since a 50-100% increase in throughput will leave a long trail of obsolete CPUs, mainstream leaders included.

Did you just assume the 6600K will last as long as 2500K? Given the difference in performance between the 2 it's highly unlikely to be the case. And yes before you say the 6700K won't last as long as 2600K either.

Do you also realize there is already a significant difference in min FPS between i5 and i7??

Do you also realize that gamers with 2500K are experiencing worse stability of FPS than 2600K owners?

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[Thinker_145]

Why are we even discussing this? The point of this thread is that you can get 6700 build for the same price as 6600k so what good reason remains for buying the latter??

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[coercitiv]

Do you also realize that gamers with 2500K are experiencing worse stability of FPS than 2600K owners?

By all means, let's see evidence of 2500k @ 4.4Ghz+ being completely overpowered by i7 2600 @ 3.5Ghz, since that would be the corresponding match to 6700 vs. 6600K, the last talking point left from the OP.

 

[Thinker_145]

By all means, let's see evidence of 2500k @ 4.4Ghz+ being completely overpowered by i7 2600 @ 3.5Ghz, since that would be the corresponding match to 6700 vs. 6600K, the last talking point left from the OP.

How is that the last talking point left? The main point is you can get 6700 build for the same price as 6600K by sacrificing a few mobo features!!

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[coercitiv]

How is that the last talking point left? The main point is you can get 6700 build for the same price as 6600K by sacrificing a few mobo features!!

The OP was about budget builds. It no longer is, per your request we are discussing mid range builds.
The OP was about 6700K + budget mobo being hands down the best option. It no longer is, we have agreed each combo is optimal depending on budget.
The OP was about overclocked 6600K being a farce when compared with 6700 at the same build price. We are still discussing that.

i5 2500k was brought up as an example of bad choice in a system build. I provided evidence that even nowadays overclocked 2500K is still a viable gaming CPU. You responded 2500k is inferior to 2600k in modern games, due to frame times issues. I asked about evidence on overclocked 2500k vs. stock 2600 since that would be the corresponding match to 6700 vs. 6600K builds we are discussing.

 

[happy medium]

No offence but your motherboard is more expensive than your CPU which is something I don't really have much words for.

My Asus motherboard was $145 and my i3 6100 cpu was $125 when I bought them.
At the time the 6700k was going for about $400. There was no way in hell I was paying that much.

I have played most good newer games and the i3 6100 gave me 60+ fps in most ,if not all of them when the graphical settings are turned down because of the weaker gtx960. I also get an added 10% performance boost because I bought ddr4 3000 memory.

As a added bonus my i3 overclocks to 4.5 with my motherboard.
I'm happy I bought a Z 170 board with the features I wanted.
I should be upgrading to a nice 7700k when needed and get 75 bucks back from my current cpu. total investment for my i3 6100 I used for about 2 years should be a whole 50$.

I'll skip the 6600k and get the latest and greatest 7700k hopefully for under the $400 I would have paid for 6700k over a year ago.

 

[Thinker_145]

The OP was about budget builds. It no longer is, per your request we are discussing mid range builds.
The OP was about 6700K + budget mobo being hands down the best option. It no longer is, we have agreed each combo is optimal depending on budget.
The OP was about overclocked 6600K being a farce when compared with 6700 at the same build price. We are still discussing that.

i5 2500k was brought up as an example of bad choice in a system build. I provided evidence that even nowadays overclocked 2500K is still a viable gaming CPU. You responded 2500k is inferior to 2600k in modern games, due to frame times issues. I asked about evidence on overclocked 2500k vs. stock 2600 since that would be the corresponding match to 6700 vs. 6600K builds we are discussing.

It is still a budget build I simply said that I shouldn't have said that to avoid confusion. The word "budget" is relative you know.

Nobody said anything about the 2600 in this thread so don't shift the goalpost. We were simply saying that the $100 extra for the 2600K has been well worth it.

5 years ago 8 threads were rarely utilized in games so nobody made an argument of 2600 instead of 2500K. The latter provided better gaming in a lot of games all these years so even if it doesn't now is not the same thing. The 6700 on the other hand has always been better than an OC 6600K so it's a different ball game altogether.

I will look for some numbers when I have the time.

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[JimKiler]

OP I bought a 4790K and with the stock cooler i will never OC so I should have saved $20 er so and bought a 4790 non K CPU.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

OP I bought a 4790K and with the stock cooler i will never OC so I should have saved $20 er so and bought a 4790 non K CPU.

If/when you decide to sell it, the K holds value better. They tend to fetch more than another $20 over the locked versions on the used market.

And budget is indeed relative. I considered a CPU+Board+SSD combo for the same price that 6700K costs to be budget.

 

[Thinker_145]

My Asus motherboard was $145 and my i3 6100 cpu was $125 when I bought them.
At the time the 6700k was going for about $400. There was no way in hell I was paying that much.

I have played most good newer games and the i3 6100 gave me 60+ fps in most ,if not all of them when the graphical settings are turned down because of the weaker gtx960. I also get an added 10% performance boost because I bought ddr4 3000 memory.

As a added bonus my i3 overclocks to 4.5 with my motherboard.
I'm happy I bought a Z 170 board with the features I wanted.
I should be upgrading to a nice 7700k when needed and get 75 bucks back from my current cpu. total investment for my i3 6100 I used for about 2 years should be a whole 50$.

I'll skip the 6600k and get the latest and greatest 7700k hopefully for under the $400 I would have paid for 6700k over a year ago.

That's not such a bad plan actually.

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[Thinker_145]

OP I bought a 4790K and with the stock cooler i will never OC so I should have saved $20 er so and bought a 4790 non K CPU.

You can always upgrade your cooler you know? Not only will you be able to overclock your current CPU but next one as well. I have been using the same cooler for I don't know how many years.

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[wingman04]

My i5 6600k handles gaming sweet thank you I don't need faster or more cores.