The 6770's on newegg are nothing more than exspensive 5770's

[Bearach]

Excluding the ridiculous patina of altruism that some people like to put on, can someone explain to me how this is a particularly bad thing for them.

More specifically: What aspect of this re-badge will cause an identifiable harm to you?

I agree that it's a mildly shoddy marketing strategy, but I really can't see how this affects me or anyone here, in any way.

It doesn't affect any of us, as we know about it. Someone whom doesn't know the fact, or a casual buyer will assume that the 6770 is infact a better card than the 5770.

 

[tincart]

Someone whom doesn't know the fact, or a casual buyer will assume that the 6770 is infact a better card than the 5770.

Perhaps, but three points:

1) If they don't research their purchase, I don't care what they buy.

2) It will matter only if they pay more for a 6770 than a 5770. If they are the same price (on average, given differences between vendors) or the 5770 is EOL'd and not available for purchase, then the point is moot.

3) Further question: Why do you personally care what a casual buyer does? What is your personal investment in their purchasing decisions?

 

[Zargon]

1.Why did they make any cards at all with 2 dvi's and a display port and hdmi, if it was usless?
If I had a monitor with a displayport and 2 monitors with dvi's could I use the 6770 without a adapter? I would think not.:thumbsdown:
Since it comes with a dvi to vga adapter, I would have to buy one.

2. I was comparing the cheapest Sapphire 5770 with a Sapphire 6770, the 5770 comes with a crossfire cable and the 6770 does not. So yes it does make a difference.:thumbsup:

you linked a vaporx 5770

the regular low end 5770 has the same display outputs as the regular 6770(you can more for the extra outputs)

the vaporx 6770 has the same outputs as the vaporx 5770

from reading sapphires website, it also appears the the 6770 will do 5 display outputs, while the 5770 will only do 3 like all over 5 series cards that are NOT eyefinity6 cards.


they also added the better 6 series 3d support to it apparantly, according the sapphires website


its Yet Another Happy Medium AMD Troll Thread filled with misinformation to make it look worse and leave out facts

yes, its mostly a rebadge, but they did seemingly add the main features that the 6 series has over the 5 series, better multidisplay support(5 instead of 3 per card) and HD3D Stereoscopic 3D.


There's no need for the inflammatory rhetoric. It is a form of baiting and it is neither productive nor respectful.

Re:

its Yet Another Happy Medium AMD Troll Thread filled with misinformation...

Please do not post like this in the future, it is in violation of the AnandTech Forum Guidelines:

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

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We ask for respect and common decency towards your fellow forum members.

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Idontcare
Super Mod

 

[SlowSpyder]

Perhaps, but three points:

1) If they don't research their purchase, I don't care what they buy.

2) It will matter only if they pay more for a 6770 than a 5770. If they are the same price (on average, given differences between vendors) or the 5770 is EOL'd and not available for purchase, then the point is moot.

3) Further question: Why do you personally care what a casual buyer does? What is your personal investment in their purchasing decisions?

It doesn't affect me at all. I think it's kind of misleading, though, when AMD or Nvidia rename the exact same part from last generation as a new part of this gernation (9800GT, 6770, etc.) Of course it's up to the buyer to research, but I still think it's a bit shoddy on the marketing side.

 

[tincart]

Of course it's up to the buyer to research, but I still think it's a bit shoddy on the marketing side.

I agree. But I am left wondering why some people are having intense personal reactions. Almost everyone agrees that it is shoddy marketing, but a few voices apparently think the world is coming to an end.

I can see two reasons for this:

1) The re-badge is causing them some sort of direct personal harm that can be explicitly stated.

2) Some excess of altruism which means that the people complaining feel personal harm or are aggrieved in some way when other graphics card consumers whom they don't know are put at a possible disadvantage on account of the re-badge.

In general, I find answers along the lines of #2 to be a bit suspicious, since I have trouble understanding the motivations behind such a position.

So what I want is either a clarification of what kind of thinking goes into #2 or an enumeration of the personal harms in the case of #1.

 

[ViRGE]

I agree. But I am left wondering why some people are having intense personal reactions. Almost everyone agrees that it is shoddy marketing, but a few voices apparently think the world is coming to an end.

I can see two reasons for this:

1) The re-badge is causing them some sort of direct personal harm that can be explicitly stated.

2) Some excess of altruism which means that the people complaining feel personal harm or are aggrieved in some way when other graphics card consumers whom they don't know are put at a possible disadvantage on account of the re-badge.

In general, I find answers along the lines of #2 to be a bit suspicious, since I have trouble understanding the motivations behind such a position.

So what I want is either a clarification of what kind of thinking goes into #2 or an enumeration of the personal harms in the case of #1.

Derek Wilson wrote a nice little rant when NVIDIA did this with the GTS 250.

NVIDIA's take on this is also flawed in that it treats customers like idiots and underlines the fundamental issue we have. Do I need a card with a new name on it to believe that it is worthy of my purchase, or can I go read reviews comparing the hardware and learn for myself whether or not any card (regardless of the name) fills my need? Maybe this name change is for people who don't know anything about graphics hardware then. In that case the thing that "sells" the card is the simple fact that NVIDIA has convinced someone that this part is an affordable version of a card from their latest line of products. Saying they need a name change to maintain current naming is essentially admitting that the only reason the name needs to be changed is to mislead uninformed people.

 

[Avalon]

I thought this was supposed to be OEM only with an HDMI update? How did Best Buy and Ewiz get a hold of these?

 

[Jionix]

Clearly, AMD has re-branded two cards. But Nvidia has before too (despite someone trying to persuade others they didn't). In fact, Nvidia re-branded a whole generation of cards (and then re-branded some of those again!). AMD has re-branded two cards. Does it make it better? No. But I wonder if the same posters (on both sides) are just being hypocrites now. And I find that offensive --- 'Selective outrage'.

 

[tincart]

NVIDIA's take on this is also flawed in that it treats customers like idiots and underlines the fundamental issue we have. Do I need a card with a new name on it to believe that it is worthy of my purchase, or can I go read reviews comparing the hardware and learn for myself whether or not any card (regardless of the name) fills my need? Maybe this name change is for people who don't know anything about graphics hardware then. In that case the thing that "sells" the card is the simple fact that NVIDIA has convinced someone that this part is an affordable version of a card from their latest line of products. Saying they need a name change to maintain current naming is essentially admitting that the only reason the name needs to be changed is to mislead uninformed people.

That argument doesn't really hold much water. As has already been articulated, the name of the card gives you information about the relative performance of a card within a series. A name would only be "misleading" to "uninformed" people if it communicated something about relative performance that was not true. The 6770 is faster than the 6670 and slower than the 6790. So within a series, the model number is not an issue because, as a decision procedure, it does exactly what it is supposed to do.

The only possibility of misinformation is if the purchaser looks at the 5770 and 6770 and buys the 6770 purely on the basis that the model number of the 6770 is higher and thus appears to be a better deal for the same price (on average). That issue becomes less serious for two reasons: a) The model numbers being different, a prudential consumer should look at the relative features of the cards and see that they have the same capacities (the bias I hold here is that I do not care about non-prudential consumers), b) The 5770 will eventually be gone from the consumer market at which point the issue disappears.

Even if the 5770 vs 6770 issue remains an extremely pressing and lasting concern, I still want to know why it is a personal concern for people, based on what I said about #2 above.

It would also be good to ask: If my goal really is to defend non-prudential consumers from becoming confused about the 5770 vs 6770, then what is the appropriate action to take to mitigate the harm? Presumably, most of the readers on this particular forum are aware of the issue. Non-prudential consumers are, by definition, not going to be reading hardware forums before making a purchase. So what is the appropriate strategy to warn those consumers?

 

[cusideabelincoln]

CU, I'm having a bit of difficulty trying to figure out what part of this thread you're having the most problems with. Is it that it's not factual? Is it something else?
Please man because you're protesting to almost everything posted. Well, at least everything posted by the OP. If you have a problem with the thread, report it. IMHO.
Thanks in advance.

Are you joking? I've directed points of interest specifically. It's not hard to figure out, even though I do use some tongue-in-cheek comments. But I suppose I should help you out.

1. The latest and most glaring "problem" is the use of the word "Warning!". Using it is sensationalistic for the context at hand.

2. As others have pointed out, and as I have several times, his facts are purposefully context limited. And some have been flat out wrong. It's all pretty much been pointed out. SO READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD!

3. Happy isn't even contesting any of the points I bring up. He turns a deaf ear and starts repeating himself.

4. I am contesting his line of thinking, not the thread itself. You seem to have that confused, when my posts have been pretty specific about doing so. I don't have a single problem with a 6770 thread. Happy and I were having a discussion (well, half a discussion) about the validly of the card - what context this card fits in - and then he changes the thread title to the current garbage. And it seems to me he did it because he had no where else to run. He "flat-out stated" he wouldn't even consider some of the things I was bringing up, and he pretty much didn't acknowledge most of what I said.

Here are some things you should read carefully to gain some clarity. They are already in this thread, but perhaps you missed them:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31630656&postcount=75
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31630634&postcount=71
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31630509&postcount=67

Oh and other people have made some posts. Perhaps you've missed them.

Please man because you're protesting to almost everything posted.

Protesting? ROFL. Nice word choice with its associated connotation. In any case, look more carefully.

 

[tincart]

Please man because you're protesting to almost everything posted. Well, at least everything posted by the OP. If you have a problem with the thread, report it. IMHO.
Thanks in advance.

I don't understand the motivation for this. As CU has stated above, "protesting" is different from arguing with reasons, which is what he is doing. Not all protests are arguments, and not all arguments are protests.

Further, why do you consistently come to the defense of the OP? It would make sense to me if you were offering rebuttals to the arguments against the OP, but you are not. You are the one protesting the fact that consistent arguments are being made against the OP.

Finally, why should CU having problems with the thread result in him reporting it? If he thinks there are factual errors or mistaken claims being made, isn't the appropriate action to present reasonable counter-arguments? This is, after all, a forum on the internet. Are you suggesting that when we disagree with the claims being made in a post, we should just report it instead of posting?

 

[Bearach]

Perhaps, but three points:

1) If they don't research their purchase, I don't care what they buy.

2) It will matter only if they pay more for a 6770 than a 5770. If they are the same price (on average, given differences between vendors) or the 5770 is EOL'd and not available for purchase, then the point is moot.

3) Further question: Why do you personally care what a casual buyer does? What is your personal investment in their purchasing decisions?

You have a point and really all consumers should do their research. Though how many of them go to someone whom knows rather than go and do it themselves? I'll expect more ask a friend, or someone they know, than do it themselves.

It can be hard sometimes to argue with someone that it's the same card, that they shouldn't expect faster performance and in the case of the 8800GT and 9800GT a minute slower performance.

It was shoddy marketing when nVIDIA did it, and it is the same when AMD does it, and I won't change my stance just cause it's now AMD. Will it stop me from purchasing either though? No.

It's already confusing for some people, and then when a product is rebadged it doesn't make it easier. Admittedly AMD haven't hidden it (unlike nVIDIA), it's in the same price range (unlike nVIDIA) and does add some features (like nVIDIA) but it's still a rebadge.

I agree that if the 5770 is totally taken off the market, then the 6770 sits nicely where it should and that there would be less of an issue once that happens

It's not the end of the world, and yes, it is being taken too far from the bulletin that it should be. As long as people now know and it's in the same price bracket there is nothing more to say about it.

 

[tincart]

It was shoddy marketing when nVIDIA did it, and it is the same when AMD does it, and I won't change my stance just cause it's now AMD. Will it stop me from purchasing either though? No.

I agree with this entirely. I think it's a bad marketing move regardless of who does it. My question is: It's done, what is an appropriate and proportionate reaction to it? And my answer is: Not what this thread is doing.

 

[Bearach]

I agree with this entirely. I think it's a bad marketing move regardless of who does it. My question is: It's done, what is an appropriate and proportionate reaction to it? And my answer is: Not what this thread is doing.

It's done, we know it's a 5770, it has some extra features, and it's the same price. Nothing more to say. This thread is too far beyond the appropriate reaction, I agree.

 

[notty22]

This is the new AMD, maybe this is a sign of BD. I keep seeing posters mention that,

 

[Bearach]

This is the new AMD, maybe this is a sign of BD. I keep seeing posters mention that,

Huh? Sorry, you've confused me. What do you mean?

 

[Madcatatlas]

I have about as much to add to this topic as the OP has.



Im glad the sensationalism was edited out, cause you can imagine the forum would be a bad place with titles like "WARNING!: GTX580 TRI SLI IS WORSE THAN AMD TRIFIRE AND 50% MORE EXPENSIVE TO BOOT"..


Rebadges suck. With that said, im not going to sell you a 5770 or a 460, so ill note down for myself that its indeed not a new card, thx to the Anandtech article among other things (cheers Ryan, where is your Tri SLi vs TriFire review you promised at higher resolutions?)

And then ill just move on.

Anyone buying stuff they know jack all about should learn by experiance/mistake. Best medicine there is.

 

[Skurge]

Huh? Sorry, you've confused me. What do you mean?

Yeah, I'd like to know too.

 

[Mistwalker]

It was shoddy marketing when nVIDIA did it, and it is the same when AMD does it, and I won't change my stance just cause it's now AMD.

Pretty much sums up my feelings.

I will say that charging more for literally the same hardware is particularly bad, but (as has been pointed out multiple times) it's too early to tell if this is happening in the case of the 6770. So far they seem about the same.

 

[Seero]

I think people are complaining about everything nowadays. Not long ago we have a 6970 revision which people complain about no renaming. Now we have the 6770 about renaming.

Seriously, are things being over priced now? What is the price difference between 6770 and 5770? Yes they appears looks alike and performs alike, but are they the same? Say 6770 is omg 5 bucks more expense then 5770, is it a big deal? Will you get 5770 to save 5 bucks?

 

[Larries]

I was just looking at the Sapphire 5770 vs the Sapphire 6770.
The 5770 has 2 dvi, hdmi, and a display port and the 6770 has only one dvi,hdmi and disply port, but the 6770 cost 30$ more shipped AR and 10$ more without rebate

So you lose an video output and pay 30$ more for the 6770 vs the 5770. Oh and the 5770 gives you a crossfire cable worth another 10$ at least.That sucks.

You also get HDMI 1.4a on the 6770! I finally checked the difference between HDMI 1.4a and 1.3... and one thing that is interesting is supporting 3D display over HDMI. That may be useful for HTPC....

 

[SirPauly]

That may be just a software update from 1.3 to 1.4a

 

[notty22]

That may be just a software update from 1.3 to 1.4a

It is, a change in micro-code in the bios. The 1.4a standard didn't exist when the 5770 was released.
Ryan Smith mentions this in his article.

 

[Firestorm007]

This is the new AMD, maybe this is a sign of BD. I keep seeing posters mention that,

What does that even have to do with this thread? Sorry, but you lost me on that one.:hmm: Are you implying that bulldozer will be a rebadge? Neverthless, wrong sub-forum buddy.

 

[formulav8]

The only reason I could see AMD even think of a stupid rebadge is to take ATI off the brand and make it AMD. Either way this is something I would expect nvidia to do not AMD. Hopefully no-more nvidia will rub off on them. Rebadges are most of the time customer rip-off's. Someone will have a 5750/70 and see 6750/70 and auto think a better video card.. HDMI 1.3 to 1.4 is not a compelling enough upgrade to warrant a relabeling.

Blah I say! Whats with all of the stinking title changes? Let is be, its not a fs/wtb thread.