The 72 Virgin Myth

[SandEagle]

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6439

Interesting.

 

[Tristicus]

Myth? FACT!

 

[ahenkel]

You could just come to ATOT and find 72 virgins

 

[ElFenix]

those on the right hand receive virgins as companions, according to chapter 56. my translation was first published in 1956. last updated in 1997. penguin classics.

 

[SandEagle]

Is it true that Christians believe Heaven has 144,000 singing virgin men?

 

[SlitheryDee]

I heard the virgins thing before 2001.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I heard the virgins thing before 2001.

Well, duh. The Zionists spent a good many years plotting their anti-Muslim and anti-American bigotry and hatred before actually enacting it on 9/11.

 

[JS80]

I hate Jews

Why do you hate Jews?

 

[Zebo]

This is a shirt I saw some USA Rangers wearing when I was dn in TX visiting my sister ...

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Why do you hate Jews?

Why do you hate America?</dave>

 

[TheWart]

Is it true that Christians believe Heaven has 144,000 singing virgin men?

 

[SandEagle]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=144,000+virgins

 

[magomago]

Actually, for the older translations it does say Virgin. But that doesn't mean it makes sense, or it is being read the correct way.

I think its is the fault of

(A)Translators
(B) The society we lived in.


The way you read the text is extremely influenced by our society and our perceptions. Even barely 50 years ago it was a Man's world even in places like the USA and Canada. Growing up in the society, growing up in those conditions, you are conditioned to interpret things around you the way society has molded you.

Taking it to men translating and interpreting the Quran, you hit a word like Houris, and the men naturally assume that it is talking to them, and that these people must be full breasted women for the male pleasure. Why? They grow up in a Man's world, they are the ones always translating the Quran so they debate only with other men, and the man is the one ruling society.

But we live in a different world, one where Male and Female equality (Somewhat kinda...we can at least agree it is better than 100 years ago in the West) is espoused. Reading it, A Muslim should pause and ask, "Does that truly make make sense?" Clearly if the texts say it as such, it would seem problematic for any Muslim. It never bothered people from before they there was a filter naturally based on the society they lived in.

For anyone who has really read the Quran, even in the old "Virgin Big Breasts, I wanna stick my penis in them" translations, the Quran emphasizes, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, male and female equality. In the eyes of God, they are the same. Women should have real rights (to own property, to inherit wealth, and to be able to divorce and remarry as she wishes). How the hell do you have such a disconnect in the book? Either it is a lie, or humans aren't picking up what else the word could mean because we are blinded by the society we live in.
Considering the former ends discussion (but is still valid), I won't comment too much further. But let us consider the latter idea further: those passages and words could mean something else. In fact, I would argue that they probably mean something like well-matched-pairs. Not just females, but males as well. The Quran clearly talks about this equality over and over again, so why the hell would it all the sudden deviate on the meaning of a word in a passage? For the whole Quran to be consistent it would only make sense that the interpreation of the word (And I mean interpretation, not just translation) should follow along the lines of "well matched pairs" - where both men and women recieve the benefits.
For what it is worth, I'm not just being blind and saying "Oh every Muslim interpretor was completely blinded by society" as a copout. That would be very apologetic of me, and it would be me LOOKING for excuses to defend something wrong. However, this idea on how to read and understand the word isn't something new; this discussion on the meaning of these words have been expressed in the past, even a thousand years ago. Famous commentators like Tabari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Jarir_al-Tabari) , Razi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi) , Ibn Kathir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir) all talk about "hur" or "hurin" meaning something like "purity of companions" or "pure beings" or "intense whiteness" (like a pure whiteness of being angellic, clean, not defiled, etc. Not a white like deathly ghost lol) without the gender connotation. But of course, in a world where society was HEAVILY towards one direction, the one that gets perpetuated the most is of course going to be male dominated version. Now too bad that is still perpetuated today by Non Muslims either because they don't know, or have an axe to grind. And too bad that translators still don't understand to start thinking about the Quran within the context of our society (a book for all time must clearly be a book that can be read differently by different times and societies based on their level of knowledge), as well as the Quran as something that needs to be continugous and understood as a WHOLE, and not on a passage by passage basis while ignoring some parts and accepting others.
If one is curious, Leopold Weiss talks a lot more about this topic, and I find it fascinating.

 

[Babbles]

I scrolled through some of those posts, and I came to the conclusion that everybody on that site is nuts.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I scrolled through some of those posts, and I came to the conclusion that everybody on that site is nuts.

I'd wager that a healthy portion of them are 9/11 truthers.

 

[Gothgar]

wat

 

[Itchrelief]

That's like linking to ATOT to prove that the plane takes off.

 

[mmntech]

I'd settle for three cases of beer.

I hope the RCMP isn't going to come crashing through my door for clicking that website. Man, if you can't beat 'em, blame it on the Jews.

 

[MAKENITO]

You could just come to ATOT and find 72 virgins

Hahahahahaaha..

 

[Ruptga]

That's like linking to ATOT to prove that the plane takes off.

Except the plane actually does take off.

 

[dammitgibs]

So 72 virgins is actually properly translated to 72 angels?? ZOMG THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!1

 

[DangerAardvark]

So 72 virgins is actually properly translated to 72 angels?? ZOMG THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!1

Yeah, angels give up the back door.

 

[Noobtastic]

Anti-Neocons? LOL

This is what the Quran says:

"It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a

Rewarding Martyrs with virgins and sex slaves has been a focal point of Islam.

&#8220;For the Shahid in the Divine presence there will be six qualities: [1] he will be forgiven from the first moment his blood is spilled; [2] he shall see his seat in Paradise and be protected against the punishment of the grave; [3] he shall be safe from the Greatest Terror [the rising of the dead]; [4] he shall be crowned with the diadem of dignity, one ruby of which is worth more than the entire world and its contents; [5] he shall be coupled with seventy-two spouses from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise; and [6] he shall be granted to intercede for seventy of his relatives.&#8221; Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi narrated it and the latter said: &#8220;This is a fair, sound, single-chained hadith&#8221; (hasan sahih gharib).

&#8220;The humblest of the People of Paradise shall have eighty thousand servants and seventy-two wives. A palace of pearl and peridot(a: A pale green variety of chrysolite; used as a gemstone) and sapphire shall be erected for him as wide as the distance between al-Jabiya [a valley about 70 kms. East of Makka] and San`a&#8217; [in Yemen].&#8221; Al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad narrated it.

Houri is Islam speak for sexy pure anal virgin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HouriGotta

love the raging Leftist marriage with homicidal Muslims. I guess the Left has found a common ally: Muslims consider themselves victim to Western imperialism, and the Left/communists see themselves as "resistance" against imperialism (inspired by human rights of course, lolz) and so now they're together covering each others' asses in the media, universities, UN, etc...

A little note Sandeagle: Everytime the Islamists have gained power with the help of the Left, the first thing they do is exterminate the communists.

The left marched lock-step with the islamists in the iranian revolution. When the mullahs came to power, they were sent to evin and executed.

After France left Algeria and the socialists helped the new Muslim government take control of the state (killing off the Harkis mostly and expelling ethnic rivals), they were squashed along with the christian/jewish french resistance.

 

[magomago]

Anti-Neocons? LOL

This is what the Quran says:



Rewarding Martyrs with virgins and sex slaves has been a focal point of Islam.

Houri is Islam speak for sexy pure anal virgin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HouriGotta

love the raging Leftist marriage with homicidal Muslims. I guess the Left has found a common ally: Muslims consider themselves victim to Western imperialism, and the Left/communists see themselves as "resistance" against imperialism (inspired by human rights of course, lolz) and so now they're together covering each others' asses in the media, universities, UN, etc...

A little note Sandeagle: Everytime the Islamists have gained power with the help of the Left, the first thing they do is exterminate the communists.

The left marched lock-step with the islamists in the iranian revolution. When the mullahs came to power, they were sent to evin and executed.

After France left Algeria and the socialists helped the new Muslim government take control of the state (killing off the Harkis mostly and expelling ethnic rivals), they were squashed along with the christian/jewish french resistance.

Oh please you could have done better than that. This is truly an embarassment of a post on so many levels.

Let us see, you ignored anything about the discussion of what it means to interpret the words and translate, but I guess such a discussion is too high level for you. You also did not read what you apparantly quoted. Finally, you didn't even read the freaking links you copied for reference (and just to be complete, even your link was not properly linked). On top of it, everything you quoted is not the Quran at all.

Discussion 1: What did IHateViruses actually quote

Quote 1 that you refer to as the "Quran":

It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying.
​

Translation: Person A said that Person B heard Person C, who said that Prophet Mohammed said......


Verdict: That sure sounds like the Quran! *sarcasm*

---------------------------------------------
Quote 2:

Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi narrated it and the latter said: “This is a fair, sound, single-chained hadith” (hasan sahih gharib).
​

Translation: Person quotes Person B and C who said the source is good......

Verdict: is there even a mention of the Quran????????

-----------------------------------------------
Quote 3:

Al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad narrated it
​

Translation: Person A and Person B said it.

Verdict: Uhhhhhhhhh.


Really your reading comprehension is top notch! Absolutely great. Look at how they keep referring to the Quran over and over again! Look at all the Quranic references......:awe:

Discussion 2: What is in the (broken) wikipedia link he provided

From your own frigging wikipedia link:

According to classical Arabic usage in the time when the Qur'an was recited by Muhammad,Hur'in is made of two words Hur as well as In. The word 'Hur' is the plural of both Ahwar (Masculine) and Hawra (Feminine) which literally translates as "white-eyed", or persons distinguished by Hawar, signifying "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the pupils." , hence 'the purity'.
And as for the phrase, "In it is the plural of both 'Ayan' (Masculine) and 'Ainao' (Feminine)" it was also used to refer to the beautiful eyes of the wild-cow whose eyes are blond. In general, this word implies 'most beautiful eye' irrespective of the person's gender. Thus, it seems that the most appropriate English rendering of the compound word Hur'In might be: "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye."[25] and it is applicable to both male and female.[26]



Oh wait, the final KICKER:

The word "houri" has entered into several European languages (French - 1654, English – 1737) with a meaning of a "voluptuous, beautiful, alluring woman"


Verdict: You sure that is what it means in...ARABIC?

Overall Conclusion:

1. He didn't read what he quoted, otherwise he would see the sources are not even from the Quran
2. He didn't read the wiki link he quoted to us, which clearly explains everything.
3. His reading comprehension is questionable

Bonus Points:

After France left Algeria and the socialists helped the new Muslim government take control of the state (killing off the Harkis mostly and expelling ethnic rivals), they were squashed along with the christian/jewish french resistance.

LOL....French Resistance in Algeria? Yeah...it isn't like they colonized Algeria at all....

This reminds me of Monty Python's Meaning of Life:
“Now, two boys have been found rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant. Now, some of you may feel that the cormorant does not play an important part in the life of the school, but I would remind you that it was presented to us by the Corporation of the town of Sudbury to commemorate Empire Day, when we try to remember the names of all those from the Sudbury area who so gallantly gave their lives to keep China British.”

- Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life



Bonus Points 2:

Reading the wiki link further, it even goes ahead and quotes Leopold Weiss on this point:

As regards my rendering of kawa’ib as "splendid companions", it is to be remembered that the term ka'b -from which the participle ka’ib is derived - has many meanings, and that one of these meanings is "prominence", "eminence" or "glory" (Lisan al-Arab); thus, the verb ka'ba, when applied to a person, signifies "he made [another person] prominent", "glorious" or "splendid" (ibid.) Based on this tropical meaning of both the verb ka'ba and the noun ka'b, the participle ka'ib has often been used, in popular parlance, to denote "a girl whose breasts are becoming prominent" or "are budding" hence, many commentators see in it an allusion to some sort of youthful "female companions' who would entertain the (presumably male) occupants of paradise.[2]
​

Then he continues:

...this interpretation of kawa’ib overlooks the purely derivative origin of the above popular usage - which is based on the tropical connotation of "prominence" inherent in the noun ka'b - and substitutes for this obvious tropism the literal meaning of something that is physically prominent: and this, in my opinion, is utterly unjustified. If we bear in mind that the Qur'anic descriptions of the blessings of paradise are always allegorical, we realize that in the above context the term kawa’ib can have no other meaning than "glorious [or "splendid"] beings".[2]
​

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Love the raging Rightist marriage with xenofobia, ignorance and general stupidity