The 85 billion a month QE in perspective

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Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
I think there are better ways to put it. For example in CA they have built 23 new prisons in the last 30 years but only 1 research university. They spend about a billion more housing inmates than they do on higher education. That is the kind of perspective that really tells a story and not buying unnecessary things like aircraft carriers and terrible dams.

So you're telling me a state run by the prison guard union, a union of mostly high school dropouts, is in favor of building prisons but against education? Shocking.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
So you're telling me a state run by the prison guard union, a union of mostly high school dropouts, is in favor of building prisons but against education? Shocking.

Your sarcasm reaks.

1) The state is run by crooks; not the prison guard union.
2) I suspect that every guard is required to have a GED or a HS diploma.
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
0
They require a 4 month education to become a prison guard.

I read that one way they got prison spending below education spending was by lowering the salaries of prison guards from $100,000 to $75,000. They have an incredible retirement package though and get 85% of your final years salary.

Now of course they rake up overtime and all that to inflate these numbers more but hey...

A sergeant can score more than $200,000 a year apparently.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,960
49,692
136
I'm already betting against America.
NASDAQ-100 inverse ETF. I have a 10% buy order trailing stop on that one.


That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
What is the real inflation rate?


Of course, Americans already know this. All you need to do is go to McDonalds

The arguments that CPI does not accurately reflect inflation are not credible. As has been discussed on here numerous times, older calculations heavily utilized home value instead of rent equivalence, etc, and using old measures assumes that American buying habits have remained identical over three decades when just common sense knows that isn't true.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
This is the type of shit that pisses me off. I know I have corrected you, at least once, on this Texashiker. The FRB does *NOT* buy subprime mortgages, regular RMBS from banks, reperforming RMBS, liquidating trust RMBS. What does the FRB buy? Plain-old agency conforming RMBS, as stated here.


http://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/ambs/ambs_faq.html

you know how I found that. I did something which apparently you cannot do, I used this newfangled tool called "google". You can enter such elementary questions like "what type of RMBS does the Federal Reserve buy" and it magically returns results that match your query. It is a very good tool for answering simple questions. I suggest that rather than assuming silly things you actually educate yourself using this google thing. I have even read that there are different versions of these things called "search engines". Although I am not sure what type of engine they really are since they don't run on gas, right? Must be some intarweb tubular powered thingiemajig.


You know what is really amazing about prime conforming agency RMBS? It isn't junk! Even more amazing is that it is comprised of the best borrowers with a max LTV of ~80%. Imagine that, no NINJA loans, no option-arms..etc. You can even use the google tool thingiemajig to figure out what a prime conforming mortgage is. I will leave that to you to google. Try it, you might learn something!
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I'm already betting against America.
NASDAQ-100 inverse ETF. I have a 10% buy order trailing stop on that one.


That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
What is the real inflation rate?


Of course, Americans already know this. All you need to do is go to McDonalds


There isn't a single price index that uses transparent data across a wide range of products that differs massively from reported inflation. The Billion Prices Project supports that.

http://www.pricestats.com/us-series

Over 5 years there is ~2% difference between the two. That can be explained by weighting differentials and other adjustments that are *known* to economists and others and are widely accepted as being reasonable.

Schiff is butthurt that every single one of his prognostications of doom haven't come true. He may have "called" housing but he did it too little too late and if he had done it earlier/better he'd have made hundreds of millions on it like others.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
This is the type of shit that pisses me off. I know I have corrected you, at least once, on this Texashiker. The FRB does *NOT* buy subprime mortgages, regular RMBS from banks, reperforming RMBS, liquidating trust RMBS. What does the FRB buy? Plain-old agency conforming RMBS, as stated here.

Why is fed buying MBS to start with? To shore up the market? To promote bad lending? To keep house prices up?

What I see going on is banks dumping their MBS to the feds because nobody else will buy them. Either that, or the banks are afraid to sell the MBS to investors.

If the fed losses money so what, just print some more.

If investors lose money, they sue.

But either way, with as much money as the fed is dumping into the market, if something goes wrong, it is going to be wrong in a very bad sort of way.

We are talking enough money to rebuild our entire infrastructure type of money.

It appears to me the fed is betting the family farm on something they hope works. Because if this goes bad, who is going to pay for it?
 
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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
The arguments that CPI does not accurately reflect inflation are not credible. As has been discussed on here numerous times, older calculations heavily utilized home value instead of rent equivalence, etc, and using old measures assumes that American buying habits have remained identical over three decades when just common sense knows that isn't true.

It's rather that common sense indicates that CPI does not accurately reflect inflation. History makes clear that skepticism of government numbers (and everything else) is prudent, not aloof or unwarranted.

Manipulated weightings, hedonic quality adjustments, and substation have all put downward pressure on CPI vs the real world price equivalents of what folks encounter in an equivalent basket of goods over the years.

Shadow Stats is a good starting point for anyone interested in the other side of government fudged numbers regarding inflation.


Regarding real world effects of the unprecedented money printing the Fed is engaged in, commonly refereed to as bond buying or "stimulus" this article should get your gears working no matter where you stand.

What&#8217;s fascinating about QE is that it has no transmission mechanism to the real economy except as a weak can-kicking exercise - and even then only by creating enormous distortions in pursuit of minute "wealth effects." The risk premiums of risky securities have become unsustainably compressed in the process, and the Fed's balance sheet has metastasized to $3.5 trillion - a level that would currently require a nearly $800 billion contraction just to normalize short-term interest rates by a quarter of one percent.

The central effect of QE is not on the real economy, but on financial speculation. The Fed purchases Treasury and mortgage securities, and creates new base money (currency and bank reserves) as payment. This results in a huge pool of zero-interest assets that someone in the economy has to hold at any given point in time. This zero-interest money is a &#8220;hot potato&#8221; that creates discomfort and encourages a tendency to &#8220;reach for yield&#8221; in more speculative assets. Undoubtedly, the universal attention to Fed actions has already created a mob psychology where, to use Kindleberger&#8217;s words, &#8220;virtually each of the participants in the market changes his or her views at the same time and moves as a herd.&#8221;

It&#8217;s worth observing that the 10-year Treasury yield is also well above the weighted average interest rate since 2010 (weighting by the quantity of Fed purchases), which means that the Fed is underwater on its holdings. Bernanke himself noted at his recent Humphrey-Hawkins testimony that the recent rise in interest rates had wiped out all of the Fed&#8217;s unrealized gains, though he feigned ignorance about how much the Fed would lose if interest rates increased by 100 basis points. The math is easy enough, so let&#8217;s do it for him. At $3.5 trillion in assets having an estimated duration of about 8 years, against only $55 billion in capital, a 100 point increase in interest rates would wipe out the Fed&#8217;s capital five times over. The Fed would probably show an insolvent balance sheet today if its holdings were actually marked-to-market.

The boom of the Minsky model is fueled by the expansion of credit. Minsky noted that &#8216;euphoria&#8217; might develop at this stage. Investors buy goods and securities to profit from the capital gains associated with the anticipated increases in their prices. The authorities recognize that something exceptional is happening and while they are mindful of earlier manias, &#8216;this time it&#8217;s different,&#8217; and they have extensive explanations for the difference.

&#8220;The continuation of the process leads to what Adam Smith and his contemporaries called &#8216;overtrading.&#8217; This term is not precise and includes speculation about increase in the prices of assets or commodities, an overestimate of prospective returns, and &#8216;excessive leverage.&#8217; Speculation involves buying assets for resale at higher prices rather than for their investment income. The euphoria leads to an increase in optimism about economic growth and about the increase in corporate profits.

&#8220;A follow-the-leader process develops as firms and households see that speculators are making a lot of money. &#8216;There is nothing as disturbing to one&#8217;s well-being and judgment as to see a friend get rich.&#8217; Unless it is to see a non-friend get rich.

&#8220;Investors rush to get on the train even as it accelerates. As long as the outsiders are more eager to buy than the insiders are to sell the prices of the assets or securities increase. As the buyers become less eager and the sellers become more eager, an uneasy period of &#8216;financial distress&#8217; follows. Other words used to describe the interval between the end of euphoria and the onset of what classic writers called revulsion and discredit (or crash and panic) are uneasiness, apprehension, tension, stringency, pressure, uncertainty, ominous conditions, fragility.

We&#8217;ve learned all too well that each round of QE has at least enough impact to kick the can down the road for a couple of quarters at a time, at the cost of greater distortions. As thoughtful economists like Lakshman Achuthan and value investors like Jeremy Grantham and Seth Klarman know, this has temporarily made fools out of geniuses and geniuses out of fools. So refraining from any forecast of what will happen in the near term, it&#8217;s sufficient to observe that the economic data is not nearly as strong as widely perceived, and the impact of QE on stock prices does nothing to improve the underlying cash flows. The advance of recent months has only made the prospect for dismal long-term equity returns even worse. QE has no ability to improve that situation. At this point, it can only elevate the distortion and thereby worsen the outcome. It&#8217;s doubtful that investors who are enjoying the thrill of recent highs will actually realize the benefit of these prices.

Full Article
Based on widely observable effects of QE to this point I tend to share the sentiment of the author.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,960
49,692
136
It's rather that common sense indicates that CPI does not accurately reflect inflation. History makes clear that skepticism of government numbers (and everything else) is prudent, not aloof or unwarranted.

Manipulated weightings, hedonic quality adjustments, and substation have all put downward pressure on CPI vs the real world price equivalents of what folks encounter in an equivalent basket of goods over the years.

Shadow Stats is a good starting point for anyone interested in the other side of government fudged numbers regarding inflation.


Regarding real world effects of the unprecedented money printing the Fed is engaged in, commonly refereed to as bond buying or "stimulus" this article should get your gears working no matter where you stand.

No, again the complaints against CPI are largely baseless.

As mentioned in many other threads (including ones that I believe involved you), the CPI is adjusted in a transparent manner to more accurately measure inflation. These changes were made after a great deal of economics research indicated that they were superior. The CPI also agrees quite closely with other independent measures of inflation, such as the billion prices index. That's no coincidence, and if you compare the BPI to those older measures of inflation you end up with wildly discordant numbers.

While skepticism of what anyone tells you is important, transparently calculated, independently verified measures are high quality instruments.

I strongly suggest you apply this skepticism to sites such as Shadow Stats and Zerohedge. You will find that their credibility collapses almost immediately when subject to scrutiny.

If you would like to read a detailed rebuttal of the more common attacks on CPI, here you go:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/08/art1full.pdf
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
The arguments that CPI does not accurately reflect inflation are not credible. As has been discussed on here numerous times, older calculations heavily utilized home value instead of rent equivalence, etc, and using old measures assumes that American buying habits have remained identical over three decades when just common sense knows that isn't true.

Correction: the major difference between then and now is that old inflation metrics included food and energy. The modern ways of measuring inflation do not include food and energy because those two things are strongly affected by inflation. Refer to the Big Mac index. A Big Mac is not a house, so why is the price of it going up 3x faster than the official inflation rate?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,960
49,692
136
Correction: the major difference between then and now is that old inflation metrics included food and energy. The modern ways of measuring inflation do not include food and energy because those two things are strongly affected by inflation. Refer to the Big Mac index. A Big Mac is not a house, so why is the price of it going up 3x faster than the official inflation rate?

This is incorrect.

BLS publishes many different measures of inflation. Two of the most commonly used ones are "core inflation", which does not include volatile categories such as food and energy, and "headline inflation", which does include energy and food. Both are available on the BLS website if you would like to read more.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
Why is fed buying MBS to start with? To shore up the market? To promote bad lending? To keep house prices up?
It's to hurt regular Americans, as usual. Pretty much everything associated with the government is designed to hurt the middle class. The war on the middle class is the only war being won at this time.
The government intentionally created a housing bubble to destroy the middle class. It was so plainly obvious that economist Paul Krugman jokingly wrote in 2002 "Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble." Ron Paul and Peter Schiff, both fans of Austrian economics as opposed to Krugman's Keynesian economics, predicted the same bubble. You know a policy is bad when Paul Krugman and Peter Schiff agree that it's bad.
The government also decided to hand out student loans for dumb shit like gender studies. How is that working out? Tuition soared, rich people can still afford it, and everyone who isn't rich becomes a debt slave for the next 20 years, and that debt doesn't go away after bankruptcy. Now the government is replacing the housing bubble with the Recovery Bubble which is basically welfare for the country's richest people. Which people benefit the most from soaring stock prices and lower cost of capital? The people who borrow money to buy stocks - rich people. Who is hurt the most by the resulting inflation? The lower and middle class.
 

destey

Member
Jan 17, 2008
146
0
71
CPI etc doesn't include the cheapening of the products to maintain profit. Company I work for makes outdoor power equipment, until 2005 all parts came from within the USA. Then slowly we transitioned everything to China. My job is QC and the quality of the parts has gone down considerably. But our prices have remained somewhat consistent because we can't raise prices without losing sales. So we make up for it by cutting costs which means looser tolerances, shoddy powdercoating, inconsistent workmanship, parts that were reworked several times to "make work."

CPI doesn't tell the whole story.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Why is fed buying MBS to start with? To shore up the market? To promote bad lending? To keep house prices up?

What I see going on is banks dumping their MBS to the feds because nobody else will buy them. Either that, or the banks are afraid to sell the MBS to investors.

If the fed losses money so what, just print some more.

If investors lose money, they sue.

But either way, with as much money as the fed is dumping into the market, if something goes wrong, it is going to be wrong in a very bad sort of way.

We are talking enough money to rebuild our entire infrastructure type of money.

It appears to me the fed is betting the family farm on something they hope works. Because if this goes bad, who is going to pay for it?


Did you see how low mortgage rates were pre-tapering discussion and how much wider they went before? Do you see how low auto loan rates are, or equipment lease rates? Fleet lease rates or construction equipment lease rates? All of those things are due to QE. Saying it has no effect is utterly silly. That's like saying that because GDP hasn't skyrocketed QE is a failure. However, you don't have the luxury of seeing what would happen if there was no QE. Personally, I think we'd be in much more trouble b/c the financial markets would still be trying to heal.

Do you know that RMBS investors don't want to buy agency RMBS? If so, please share that info. In fact, they want to buy them but can't find them at reasonable prices. This is *NOT* bad collateral, it is prime conforming mortgages. Furthermore, the FRB is buying TBAs/CMOs from FREDDIE MAC AND FANNIE MAE, *NOT* BANKS. I have said this before but you refuse to listen or educate yourself.

The $85bn is buying a whole shit ton of houses for home buyers. It's taking that liquidity and placing it into CMBS/ABS/corp bonds. It isn't placing it into stocks b/c the same people who would buy agency RMBS, that can't, aren't going to just buy stocks instead, at least not the majority of them.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
I got the impression that you were stating that if a carrier or two was cut; there would be no problem then with the budget.

My POV was that the money spent on building the carrier gets recycled multiple times back within the local(s) economy.

I think that's the point he's trying to make.

He'd rather the QE money be spent directly on goods by the government, rather than lent to banks who use it to buy shit from other banks in and endless circle of padding their balance sheets with phony assets that don't exist other than in some ridiculously complex financial transaction.

To some extent, I agree. I'd prefer the government engage in direct stimulus. Lending money (at near 0 interest) to banks to keep the stock market inflated is a really bad idea that makes a few people a lot of money, but does absolutely nothing for 99.9% of people in the US.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I think that's the point he's trying to make.

He'd rather the QE money be spent directly on goods by the government, rather than lent to banks who use it to buy shit from other banks in and endless circle of padding their balance sheets with phony assets that don't exist other than in some ridiculously complex financial transaction.

To some extent, I agree. I'd prefer the government engage in direct stimulus. Lending money (at near 0 interest) to banks to keep the stock market inflated is a really bad idea that makes a few people a lot of money, but does absolutely nothing for 99.9% of people in the US.

Goddamn are you people blind? The fucking money isn't being lent to banks. Banks lend money to homeowners which are prime conforming mortgages. Those mortgages are sold to Fannie and Freddie and packaged into CMOs which are sold to the Fed. F&F could be buying them directly but the system doesn't work that way. Either way, it's the Fed ultimately buying from the GSEs.

As far as the GSEs go, they are now doing risk-sharing deals with the capital markets so the ultimate risk is being offloaded to investors. It is being very well received.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126
The banks aren't lending out the money though. Which is why inflation is pretty tepid despite the printing. JPM has massive reserves. It does reflect the direction of the banking sector as a whole though.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...nks-lending-least-of-deposits-in-5-years.html

You get the idea.


I know their plan isn't working, and I don't think they ever really thought it would either.

My point was, people are 'fantasizing' about what could be done with that 85 billion per month.

Reality is, the 85 billion is being spent. The US Gov't spends over $200 billion per month. About one third of that is deficit spending, in other words they sell debt to institutions like the Fed, take the cash and spend it.

And where does that money go?

 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Did you see how low mortgage rates were pre-tapering discussion and how much wider they went before? Do you see how low auto loan rates are, or equipment lease rates? Fleet lease rates or construction equipment lease rates?

All of those things are due to QE. Saying it has no effect is utterly silly. That's like saying that because GDP hasn't skyrocketed QE is a failure. However, you don't have the luxury of seeing what would happen if there was no QE. Personally, I think we'd be in much more trouble b/c the financial markets would still be trying to heal.

A lot of that has to do with the prime rate. QE might have something to do with it, but the prime rate is the main factor in interest rates.

Regardless of all of that, QE is spending enough money year to just about rebuild our entire infrastructure.

And we are still in a recession?

Just one month of QE is enough to create over 120,000 jobs for 9 years building super dams. Where has the other 12+ months gone? Not that we ned to build dams, I am just using that as an example.
 
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BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,139
1,612
126
I agree about the dams. We should build more bigger dams for power generation and maybe to bulk up water reservoirs for parts of the country that are too dry.

I disagree about the carriers, I do not think that the US needs any more ability to project force/power.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
No, again the complaints against CPI are largely baseless.

As mentioned in many other threads (including ones that I believe involved you), the CPI is adjusted in a transparent manner to more accurately measure inflation. These changes were made after a great deal of economics research indicated that they were superior. The CPI also agrees quite closely with other independent measures of inflation , such as the billion prices index. That's no coincidence, and if you compare the BPI to those older measures of inflation you end up with wildly discordant numbers.

While skepticism of what anyone tells you is important, transparently calculated, independently verified measures are high quality instruments.

I strongly suggest you apply this skepticism to sites such as Shadow Stats and Zerohedge. You will find that their credibility collapses almost immediately when subject to scrutiny.

If you would like to read a detailed rebuttal of the more common attacks on CPI, here you go:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/08/art1full.pdf


Yea, that's well said. Thanks for linkage.

From my perspective CPI has slight of hand in how it measures what is widely believed it measures. Yes, it might be more accurate of something, but it's not of what people believe regarding inflation. A few examples are if a steak goes from 4 per pound to 8 per pound and folks buy chicken instead, CPI would not calculate the rise in steak prices as inflationary in it's final calculation of what's occurring to a shopper because of it's substitution method. Yea the shopper is *not* spending more for dinner, but they aren't eating steak for an inflationary reason (even if that reason is transient, or not transient). If the push to chicken then rises chicken prices and people buy something cheaper, then the inflationary affect on those meats is not calculated due to substitution behaviors. In the end I get how current CPI can be argued as accurate, it's just not measuring what a lot of folks believe it is. An iPad or computer that costs 600 bux today and 600 bux tomorrow (a year, years later) would be considered deflationary under the current CPI calculation methods due to hedonics. If a new iPad has improvements that are deemed worthy by the calculators of this stuff an actual price increase (say 600 to 650) can be measured as deflationary, even if the old model is no longer available to purchase for 600. I get how this can be argued as an accurate store of a more true inflation, i'm not convinced some of the methods are appropriate.

I see how these adjustments can be argued, its just that they are no longer measuring what is widely believed to be inflationary forces by many people. I'm not sure the wide misunderstanding (i'll grant as a misunderstanding to the idea the current read is more accurate than past reads) is the fault of people who substitute or buy nicer specced but more expensive stuff whose habits are being tracked as non inflationary. The arbitrary nature of some of these adjustments leaves it open to manipulation. There is also a need for government to keep inflation in check, so having some of the adjustments at hand is a red flag for me. This I'm sure you know about my take on these things



Good video regarding the banking sector,... our monetary system mainly for which the Fed is instrumental. Some overly dramatic dressings can be tuned out, the core of money creation and it's flow is there. Yea, the money gets spent, it always gets spent, but along the way a lot of folks take helpings and there is a price to pay for those greedy hands.

Here

It explains the function of our current banking system and the translation of our money through it. Immediately reminded of the famous quote from Henry Ford,

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

Plenty of intelligent people can tie some of whats presented in the vid to obvious reasons for the current Feds actions and maybe figure out some of the non obvious ones. I'll admit that deflation in our monetary system is very bad for a number of reasons, but the reason for that is tied to a system that clearly serves a small class of people very very well at the expense of everybody else. Whether we are getting the balance in this existing system right and in the end achieving somewhat fair/prudent balance for everyone in the end is an endless and worthwhile debate. We do have concrete evidence that the very rich are doing quite nicely since QE began, and everybody else,... not so much. The argument as I understand it for the current solution of endless QE,.. is that under our current monetary system that everybody else would be worse off than they are without QE. It's a nice move to keep a juicy status quo for the well off. QE is also absolutely essential to keeping the ultra wealthy (50Mil+) to keeping their fortunes intact. These are the people who don't necessarily work so much for a living as they own stuff for a living.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,960
49,692
136
Yea, that's well said. Thanks for linkage.

From my perspective CPI has slight of hand in how it measures what is widely believed it measures. Yes, it might be more accurate of something, but it's not of what people believe regarding inflation. A few examples are if a steak goes from 4 per pound to 8 per pound and folks buy chicken instead, CPI would not calculate the rise in steak prices as inflationary in it's final calculation of what's occurring to a shopper because of it's substitution method. Yea the shopper is *not* spending more for dinner, but they aren't eating steak for an inflationary reason (even if that reason is transient, or not transient). If the push to chicken then rises chicken prices and people buy something cheaper, then the inflationary affect on those meats is not calculated due to substitution behaviors. In the end I get how current CPI can be argued as accurate, it's just not measuring what a lot of folks believe it is.

This is incorrect. CPI controls for substitution, but only within product categories. Not only are product categories specific between meats, but they are specific within types of products of the same meat. If someone were to substitute chicken for steak it would most certainly be captured by CPI. For more information read here:

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpiqa.htm#Question_3

An iPad or computer that costs 600 bux today and 600 bux tomorrow (a year, years later) would be considered deflationary under the current CPI calculation methods due to hedonics. If a new iPad has improvements that are deemed worthy by the calculators of this stuff an actual price increase (say 600 to 650) can be measured as deflationary, even if the old model is no longer available to purchase for 600. I get how this can be argued as an accurate store of a more true inflation, i'm not convinced some of the methods are appropriate.

This is also not accurate. Not only do they not behave in this way, but the categories subject to hedonic adjustment comprise a vanishingly small percentage of CPI.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpiqa.htm#Question_4

I see how these adjustments can be argued, its just that they are no longer measuring what is widely believed to be inflationary forces by many people. I'm not sure the wide misunderstanding (i'll grant as a misunderstanding to the idea the current read is more accurate than past reads) is the fault of people who substitute or buy nicer specced but more expensive stuff whose habits are being tracked as non inflationary. The arbitrary nature of some of these adjustments leaves it open to manipulation. There is also a need for government to keep inflation in check, so having some of the adjustments at hand is a red flag for me. This I'm sure you know about my take on these things

Again, the CPI is calculated completely transparently, and the effects of what you mention are small.

Good video regarding the banking sector,... our monetary system mainly for which the Fed is instrumental. Some overly dramatic dressings can be tuned out, the core of money creation and it's flow is there. Yea, the money gets spent, it always gets spent, but along the way a lot of folks take helpings and there is a price to pay for those greedy hands.

Here

It explains the function of our current banking system and the translation of our money through it. Immediately reminded of the famous quote from Henry Ford,



Plenty of intelligent people can tie some of whats presented in the vid to obvious reasons for the current Feds actions and maybe figure out some of the non obvious ones. I'll admit that deflation in our monetary system is very bad for a number of reasons, but the reason for that is tied to a system that clearly serves a small class of people very very well at the expense of everybody else. Whether we are getting the balance in this existing system right and in the end achieving somewhat fair/prudent balance for everyone in the end is an endless and worthwhile debate. We do have concrete evidence that the very rich are doing quite nicely since QE began, and everybody else,... not so much. The argument as I understand it for the current solution of endless QE,.. is that under our current monetary system that everybody else would be worse off than they are without QE. It's a nice move to keep a juicy status quo for the well off. QE is also absolutely essential to keeping the ultra wealthy (50Mil+) to keeping their fortunes intact. These are the people who don't necessarily work so much for a living as they own stuff for a living.

Deflation is bad for one very simple reason, it provides a disincentive to spend money. If the dollar in your pocket is worth more tomorrow than it is today, you might as well hold off on buying goods, even if you need them. This is disastrous for an economy as a whole.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Legend as usual gives good information but I can't help but remember "Take sub-prime mortgages bundle into MBS voila AAA rated credit security- 2007"

"Take sub-prime mortgages bundle into MBS everyone defaults! -2008"
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
A lot of that has to do with the prime rate. QE might have something to do with it, but the prime rate is the main factor in interest rates.

Regardless of all of that, QE is spending enough money year to just about rebuild our entire infrastructure.

And we are still in a recession?

Just one month of QE is enough to create over 120,000 jobs for 9 years building super dams. Where has the other 12+ months gone? Not that we ned to build dams, I am just using that as an example.

This is where you are about 70% wrong. The prime rate provides a base-level rate by which people can benchmark loans. However, mortgage rates are *not* set by Prime. Pretty much no assets are set by prime except for maybe credit cards or private student loans.

Mortgages used to be set off of the 10yr treasury since the weighted-average life of a 30yr mortgage is ~15 years (assuming regular amortization schedule) with some component of prepayments, thus, you get ~10yrs. However, most mortgage rates now follow the RMBS index rates to determine where RMBS is pricing. If RMBS bond prices go down, residential mortgage rates go up, prices go up, rates go down.

Anybody who has bought a house knows this, or at least should know how their rate is set.

Since the Fed is buying up so many mortgages the supply on the market is limited, supply <demand = high prices for RMBS and low rates. Keep in mind that Freddie/Fannie make up the majority of the mortgage market and the Fed doesn't buy anything but full agency RMBS.

You are losing focus when you comp it to something like dams. Dams may produce jobs and energy but they do not produce wealth. Housing produces jobs, jobs produces GDP, GDP produces consumption which produces more jobs which increases demand for houses which produces more jobs and higher housing prices. Provided it doesn't get bubbly it is a virtuous cycle.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Legend as usual gives good information but I can't help but remember "Take sub-prime mortgages bundle into MBS voila AAA rated credit security- 2007"

"Take sub-prime mortgages bundle into MBS everyone defaults! -2008"

These aren't NINJA no-doc option-arm teaser rate loans. They are prime conforming mortgages. Have you applied for a mortgage lately? I did in Feb and I imagine a visit to a proctologist would be a bit less invasive.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
When you build ships you are paying some people to do the jobs. When the Fed buys Bonds you are paying banks and corporations as corporate welfare. By doing this we are subverting capitalism, the tax system and the free market. We are also lowering the value of the dollar which increases the price of gasoline.
 
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