Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Frackal
I wonder what Eat Spam would have said about the Marshall Plan
He would be opposed to it, especially since he does not believe in helping other countries out in any form.
Its nice that you "conservatives" are so generous with my tax money.
I'm not really 'conservative' in a full sense. You recognize me as a conservative because I'm simply not extremist in my views and nature. This is a supreme problem with many of the liberals on this forum - their minds have been corrupted due to extremist behavior.
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Frackal
I wonder what Eat Spam would have said about the Marshall Plan
He would be opposed to it, especially since he does not believe in helping other countries out in any form.
Its nice that you "conservatives" are so generous with my tax money.
I'm not really 'conservative' in a full sense. You recognize me as a conservative because I'm simply not extremist in my views and nature. This is a supreme problem with many of the liberals on this forum - their minds have been corrupted due to extremist behavior.
Many of the American liberals have become Europeanized on this forum.
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Frackal
I wonder what Eat Spam would have said about the Marshall Plan
He would be opposed to it, especially since he does not believe in helping other countries out in any form.
Its nice that you "conservatives" are so generous with my tax money.
I'm not really 'conservative' in a full sense. You recognize me as a conservative because I'm simply not extremist in my views and nature. This is a supreme problem with many of the liberals on this forum - their minds have been corrupted due to extremist behavior.
You're really more of a neo-conservative... you seem fully supportive of America's foreign policy adventures and giving away the store, so to speak. I consider myself much more of a fiscal conservative than you, although I am socially liberal.
Originally posted by: EatSpam
When you say "Europeanized", what do you mean?
Originally posted by: EatSpam
When you say "Europeanized", what do you mean?
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Frackal
I wonder what Eat Spam would have said about the Marshall Plan
He would be opposed to it, especially since he does not believe in helping other countries out in any form.
Its nice that you "conservatives" are so generous with my tax money.
I'm not really 'conservative' in a full sense. You recognize me as a conservative because I'm simply not extremist in my views and nature. This is a supreme problem with many of the liberals on this forum - their minds have been corrupted due to extremist behavior.
You're really more of a neo-conservative... you seem fully supportive of America's foreign policy adventures and giving away the store, so to speak. I consider myself much more of a fiscal conservative than you, although I am socially liberal.
Actually, I did not support the initial invasion of Iraq. But nice try!
The problem is that you're an extremist and therefore apply the idealogical opposite of yourself to anyone that disagrees with you in any sense. This is a common affliction on this forum.
Originally posted by: Tab
Why didn't you support the initial invasion? Curious...
Yes, extremism and vast partisian ship is a problem in this forum. Thats why you don't see as many "smart" forum members around lately.
Turnout in Afghanistan's parliamentary and provincial elections on Sunday was more than 20% down on last year's presidential poll, officials say.
Just over 50% of registered voters cast their ballots, officials have told the BBC.
A number of reasons for the drop are being given. Many voters said they did not want to vote for candidates they regarded as warlords.
There was also evidence many people found the elections too confusing.
Only a few of the candidates declared any political ties, which observers say made it hard for voters to make an informed choice between candidates.
Take the numbers for what you will.Ed Morgan, chief of a delegation from the non--?profit International Foundation for Election Systems, estimated a turnout of 7 million of the 12.4 million registered voters. Eight million voted in November.
Originally posted by: NeoV
The reality is that this elelction is little more than a PR stunt - none of these elected people will wield any real power, the country is still producing record amount of opium, and many of the remote villages/cities are still pretty much under local control, not a centralized government. Women are still treated like crap, though I will admit that at least there is some progress in that area, but still a long, long way to go.
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: EatSpam
When you say "Europeanized", what do you mean?
They have turned to the far right on some ideas, especially immigration, minority issues, the developing world, etc. We have members on this forum who call themselves American liberals who support white-only immigration. That is not a classic American liberal. That is what I call a Europeanized American liberal. They are happy with undesirables in miserable situations.
Bush's actions are radicalizing people, not only Muslims as people say but American liberals too. It's a sad day when Republicans care more about undesirables than Democrats. People need to be above Bush.
As heavily guarded convoys hauled ballots from landmark legislative elections across Afghanistan?s rugged terrain today, evidence that turnout was sharply lower than in last year?s presidential vote undermined celebrations of the polling as a key step toward stability.
Afghan and international officials hailed yesterday?s elections as a major success, but chief electoral officer Peter Erben said turnout appeared to be just over 50 percent, based on reports from about one-third of the polling stations.
Barring a big increase, this would be significantly lower than the 70% for Hamid Karzai?s victory in last October?s euphoric presidential election. More than 8 million people voted then, even though the number of registered voters was lower than the 12.4 million eligible to cast ballots for the first new legislature in more than three decades.
No matter what the turnout, many voters were enthusiastic. That pleased the government and its Western backers, who hailed the elections as a show of determination to entrench democracy and defiance in the face of Taliban threats.
?Afghanistan should be satisfied with the turnout in yesterday?s election,? said Erben, chief electoral officer of the joint Afghan-UN body that conducted the vote. He said it compared well with elections in other post-war countries and joined Western observers in saying there was no evidence of major irregularities.
In a preliminary report, a European Union observer mission gave the polls a positive review but said vote secrecy was not always maintained. It said shortcomings during the campaign included intimidation, intervention by officials, inadequate voter lists and ?deplorable? killings of candidates and election workers.
oopsBut turnout in Kabul appeared to have been about 36 percent, he said.
The drop in voter participation from the 70 percent recorded in last fall's presidential election has tempered celebrations of Sunday's vote as another big step to democracy.
How's about them apples?KABUL, Afghanistan, Oct. 2 - Election officials and observers said Sunday that with 80 percent of the ballots counted in Afghanistan's national and provincial elections, they had found significant incidents of fraud.
Whole districts have come under suspicion for ballot box stuffing and proxy voting, said Peter Erben, the chief of the United Nations-assisted Joint Election Management Board. He said ballot boxes from 4 percent of the 26,000 polling places - about 1,000 stations - had been set aside for investigation on suspicion of fraud and other irregularities.
The European Union observer mission said the reports of fraud and possible voter intimidation in places were "worrying." In a statement, the mission said, "While these phenomena do not appear to be nationwide, they are a cause for concern."
Mr. Erben promised strong action and said that if there was a clear indication of fraud, the votes in question would be excluded from the general count. The Election Complaints Commission could also warn, fine and disqualify candidates if there was evidence of tampering, he said.
"We are taking irregularities very seriously," he said.
One of the worst cases has been in Paghman, a district west of Kabul, which is the stronghold of Abdul Rab Rassoul Sayyaf, a wartime faction leader and ally of President Hamid Karzai. Ballot boxes from 95 polling stations in Paghman have been set aside for further inspection and 30 to 40 of those had been cleared for counting by Sunday, officials said.
The rest would be excluded from the count because of clear evidence of fraud, said a foreign observer who lacked permission to speak to reporters and asked not be identified.
Mr. Sayyaf is running for a seat in the Wolesi Jirga, or the lower house of Parliament, and is in fourth place with 2,105 votes. Only 20 percent of the results for Kabul have been tabulated so far, but he is nevertheless well placed to win one of the 33 seats in the province.
Mr. Erben said that there were no signs of countrywide efforts to defraud the Afghan people but that there had been local efforts. "I do not believe these irregularities in any way have affected the overall elections, but some of them have surely affected them locally," he said. Voters went to the polls Sept. 18 to choose representatives for Parliament from each province, and for members of provincial councils.
"If compared with other, similar, postconflict elections, I think that the level of irregularities that we are currently reviewing is extremely reasonable," Mr. Erben said at a news conference.
A "very high number" of polling stations in Paktika, a southeastern province that includes the tribal areas on the border with Pakistan, were also under review because of accusations of proxy voting, Mr. Erben said. Ballot boxes from 271 stations were quarantined in Paktika pending investigation, he said.
Another 300 boxes were quarantined in Herat, a western province, Tolo TV reported, quoting the local election supervisor.
The American military said Saturday that an American soldier and an Afghan soldier were killed Friday in a clash with insurgents in Kandahar, and an American soldier and two Afghans were wounded. Violence in Afghanistan has increased in recent months as Taliban insurgents have stepped up efforts to drive out the Afghan government and foreign troops.