The AMD Kabini Review: A4-5000 APU Tested

R0H1T

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Kabini: Competing in the Evolving Marketplace
Prior to the onslaught of Android tablets and the launch of Windows 8, I was pretty much done with Atom and Brazos—they simply didn’t provide enough performance to make them pleasant devices for me to use. What was rather anemic hardware for Windows Vista/7 starts to look much more palatable with the new OS, and Android on such a chip can run extremely well. AMD has Temash for that audience, but I suspect we’ll at least see some 15W Kabini tablets/hybrids at some point, and they should stack up quite well against the competition in terms of performance and features. That’s the real takeaway from today’s launch, and it shows that AMD is keen to carve out a market niche separate from the traditional desktop and laptop PCs.

In terms of the normal Windows experience, Kabini doesn’t make too many waves. Yes, it’s faster than any current Atom or Brazos laptop, and Windows runs reasonably well all things considered, but there are still applications where Kabini falls short. That's the problem with competing in the good enough part of the computing spectrum—everyone has a different definition of what's good enough.

CPU performance is appreciably better than anything Bobcat or Atom based at this point. If you're ok with Clover Trail, then Kabini will feel really quick. The big Ivy Bridge cores still maintain a significant performance advantage, but presumably Kabini's offer is that you can find it in an Ultrabook-like system but at a much more reasonable pricetag. If that ends up being the case, I suspect many would choose form factor over extra CPU performance. So much of Kabini's success will be tied to what OEMs do with the parts. It's unfortunate that AMD doesn't have any Kabini APUs with Turbo Core working as I suspect that could do wonders for further driving single threaded performance.



On the graphics front, Kabini's Radeon HD 8830 is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's significantly faster than what we had with Brazos (and lightyears ahead of what you get with Clover Trail), but not faster than Intel's HD 4000 which we viewed as the minimum acceptable level of performance for processor graphics upon its introduction. However, if you're playing older titles, or when faced with more tablet-like 3D workloads, Kabini's GPU should do very well.

On the power front, Kabini is great. In our tests we found much better battery life than Brazos and even better battery life than 17W Ultrabook-class Ivy Bridge parts. The days of AMD being associated with poor battery life are long gone. Kabini manages compelling battery life and better performance than Brazos, which is exactly what AMD needs. Given how successful Brazos was (almost 50M units shipped), Kabini seems to have the right recipe.

The real question for me is what sort of laptops and devices we’ll see when manufacturers release Kabini into the wild. The prototype laptop is really weak on some areas I care about—the keyboard and touchpad just don’t impress, and build quality is flimsy at best—but what it does have is a great LCD for what will hopefully be a budget-friendly laptop. Give me a reasonable Ultrabook-style chassis (or maybe a dockable tablet) with Kabini and a decent quality 1080p touchscreen and do it at the right price and there are plenty of people that will jump at the offer.
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R0H1T

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Also from anandtech
AMD’s Jaguar Architecture: The CPU Powering Xbox One, PlayStation 4, Kabini & Temash

Bobcat was a turning point for AMD. The easily synthesized, low cost CPU design was found in the nearly 50 million Brazos systems AMD sold since its introduction. Jaguar improves upon Bobcat in a major way. The move to 28nm helps drive power even lower, which will finally get AMD into tablet designs with Temash. Despite being lower power, Jaguar also manages to increase performance appreciably over Bobcat. AMD claims up to a 22% increase in IPC compared to Bobcat. Combine the IPC gains with a more multi-core friendly design and Jaguar based APUs should be appreciably faster than their predecessors.



Quite possibly one of the only real weaknesses with Jaguar is the lack of aggressive turbo modes in any of the shipping implementations of the design. It appears that the first implementations of Jaguar were under time constraints, leaving many features (including improved thermal monitoring/management and turbo boost) on the cutting room floor. Kabini and Temash seem ripe for a mid-cycle update enabling turbo across more parts, which could do wonders for single threaded performance.

The Jaguar power story actually looks very good, it's just hampered by traditional PC legacy. None of the launch APUs here support the low power IOs necessary to drive platform power down even further. AMD is getting very close though. Jaguar's core power is easily sub-2W for lightweight tablet tasks, the rest of the platform (excluding display) drives it up to 4 - 7W. AMD definitely has the right building blocks to go after truly low power tablets in a major way, should it have the resources and bandwidth to do so.



In its cost and power band, Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today. As Intel transitions to its 22nm Silvermont architecture however Jaguar will finally get some competition. For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.

I can’t stress enough how important it is that AMD continues to focus on driving the single threaded performance of its cat-line of cores. Second chances are rare in this business, but that’s exactly what AMD has been offered with the rise of good enough computing. Jaguar vs. Atom is the best CPU story AMD has had in years. Regular updates to the architecture coupled with solid execution are necessary to ensure that history doesn’t repeat itself in a new segment of AMD’s business.

Long term, I can’t help but wonder what Bobcat’s success will do to shape AMD’s future microarchitecture decisions. I’m not sure what Jim Keller’s SoC project is, but I’m wondering if the days of really big cores might be over. I don’t know that really small cores are the answer either, but perhaps something in between...
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meloz

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Jul 8, 2008
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It's a decent enough keep-alive. Since none of these will be sold to consumers directly, now we must wait and see how many OEM / ODM wins AMD gets, and what the sales are like.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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No wonder the other Temash review said games was CPU bound at a slideshow rate. Specially considering the TDP at that slideshow rate.

I agree with mrmt, this product is way overdue.

The short summary is that not a single game manages to crest the 30FPS mark, and I even ran additional tests at the minimum quality settings to see if I could improve the results. Sadly, I couldn’t, at least not enough to make the games playable; the best I managed was around 25 FPS in Bioshock and Tomb Raider at minimum detail, and most titles remained in the sub-20 FPS range. Titles that tend to be more taxing on the CPU side of things like StarCraft II are even worse, with frame rates in StarCraft II being half of what IVB ULV gets at our Value (medium quality minus antialiasing) preset.

I shiever by thinking of 8 of these cores in consoles. But again, new consoles is about TV, TV, TV and TV
 
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Sweepr

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May 12, 2006
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I'm disappointed by the GPU scores. Much slower than soon to be replaced ULV IB which isnt fast enough to run the most demanding X360/PS3 ports at 1366x768.
Overall good APU though, considering price and power comsumption.
 

R0H1T

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Jan 12, 2013
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Kabini is the product they needed 12-6 months ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong but these Jaguar based parts don't have a direct competitor from either sides, ARM & Intel, in the same price/power range so if AMD can score enough design wins then we'll see a revival from them in the (ultra)low power segment. Remember even MS is looking for cheaper parts for their surface RT & Pro tablets so if AMD can get some of these into the latter then they'll assuredly have another year of growing revenue stream just like the console arena !
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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I shiever by thinking of 8 of these cores in consoles. But again, new consoles is about TV, TV, TV and TV

The worst case was Starcraft II, which is notoriously dependent on single threaded performance. Having 8 slower cores will force developers to write better threaded code if they want their games to perform well. *shrug*
 

Enigmoid

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Sep 27, 2012
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The worst case was Starcraft II, which is notoriously dependent on single threaded performance. Having 8 slower cores will force developers to write better threaded code if they want their games to perform well. *shrug*

Which is both a good and bad thing. It will increase costs but the gaming industry should move forward.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Correct me if I'm wrong but these Jaguar based parts don't have a direct competitor from either sides, ARM & Intel, in the same price/power range so if AMD can score enough design wins then we'll see a revival from them in the (ultra)low power segment. Remember even MS is looking for cheaper parts for their surface RT & Pro tablets so if AMD can get some of these into the latter then they'll assuredly have another year of growing revenue stream just like the console arena !

Nextgen Surface Pro and RT is already Intel and nVidia.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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The worst case was Starcraft II, which is notoriously dependent on single threaded performance. Having 8 slower cores will force developers to write better threaded code if they want their games to perform well. *shrug*

Well...Amdahls... :whiste:

Its clear that at least the Xbox is targetted to be a media center rather than gaming console for the future.
 

R0H1T

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Nextgen Surface Pro and RT is already Intel and nVidia.
Is that confirmed, if yes then is there a possibility that there maybe cheaper variants of Surface PRO ? I'd like to wait & watch because with win8 sales tanking MS will need to push these tablets more than ever also under a certain price point, say 500~600$ roughly, Intel parts will not be profitable for OEM's & even if they chose to go with Intel then we'll see the same atom fiasco all over again !
 

sontin

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Sep 12, 2011
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Why would MS use a much slower SoC/processor than what is in their Pro right now?
If they want to lower the price they need to push Windows RT and not some low performance x86 SoC.
 

mrmt

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Aug 18, 2012
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Correct me if I'm wrong but these Jaguar based parts don't have a direct competitor from either sides, ARM & Intel, in the same price/power range so if AMD can score enough design wins then we'll see a revival from them in the (ultra)low power segment. Remember even MS is looking for cheaper parts for their surface RT & Pro tablets so if AMD can get some of these into the latter then they'll assuredly have another year of growing revenue stream just like the console arena !

Don't get me wrong, Kabini is a nice product, but it will be hard pressed in Q4 by silvermont and Haswell. Silvermont is likely to be cheaper, and Haswell will offer better performance. This is a competitive picture far more complex than Brazos when it arrived.
 

krumme

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Oct 9, 2009
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Kabini is the product they needed 12-6 months ago.

If anything this is the product Intel needed 1 year ago. If that had happened their share price would be double and the technology would be huge legs for their process tech.

As it stands a57 looks to take all the profitability out of the mobile market. Little big at 2014 is a proven tech with a15 as forerunners for software adaption. At the same time amd will be selling this stuff for 9 usd to every oem.

capex runs to servers. As indicated of Otellini in recent interview. Good for Intel they own that market.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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Well...Amdahls... :whiste:

Its clear that at least the Xbox is targetted to be a media center rather than gaming console for the future.

Amdahl's law is used to look at how a fixed algorithm will scale on hardware with increasing core counts. What I was talking about was developers writing algorithms which are designed to scale to 8 cores well... which is an entire different situation.

But yeah, the XBox One announcement was very underwhelming. "Here's a load of TV features! ...if you're in the US." This sums it up well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOxdMQhDMIU
 

R0H1T

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Jan 12, 2013
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Don't get me wrong, Kabini is a nice product, but it will be hard pressed in Q4 by silvermont and Haswell. Silvermont is likely to be cheaper, and Haswell will offer better performance. This is a competitive picture far more complex than Brazos when it arrived.
Yes but realistically speaking an OEM wanting a "good enough" level of performance will go for AMD, assuming AMD can make some amount of money whilst pricing these parts cheaper than Intel, but the hard(er) part will be the initial adoption & AMD's scramble for design wins !

edit : I dunno if such a scenario will come to fruition but seeing the potential power/perf characteristics of these chips I'm fairly optimistic & again hoping that the OEM's won't ignore AMD, as was the case with trinity, for whatever unknown reasons !
 
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Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
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Correct me if I'm wrong but these Jaguar based parts don't have a direct competitor from either sides, ARM & Intel, in the same price/power range

For a few months at best, assuming these are shipping today.

Remember even MS is looking for cheaper parts for their surface RT & Pro tablets so if AMD can get some of these into the latter then they'll assuredly have another year of growing revenue stream just like the console arena !

Looking at the sales of surface that's not going to be much help. I also don't see MS leaving Intel in the tablet space.
 

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
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It'll be interesting to see how the lowest TDP model (for Jaguar), a dual core, 1ghz part, compares to existing and future products from both Intel/Arm, I am not entirely sure that the increased IPC will be able to make up for the clock/cores advantage from both competitors respectively.
 

strata8

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Mar 5, 2013
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It'll be interesting to see how the lowest TDP model (for Jaguar), a dual core, 1ghz part, compares to existing and future products from both Intel/Arm, I am not entirely sure that the increased IPC will be able to make up for the clock/cores advantage from both competitors respectively.

I made a rough estimate in another thread:

Even the 3.9W DC version is the most powerful x86 SoC in it's TDP range. Similar CPU performance to 1.7 Ghz DC A15 (possibly) and GPU performance is close to PowerVR SGX 554MP4.

Vs. Atom:

Atom Z2760 (2 x 1.8 Ghz, 3W)
Mozilla Kraken (lower = better): 14,500ms
CB R11.5 Single: 0.17
CB R11.5 Multi: 0.52
7-Zip Single: 750
7-Zip Multi: 2,300

3DMark Ice Storm: 2,900
GL/DX Benchmark: 2.3 fps

AMD A4-1200 (2 x 1 Ghz, 3.9W) (est.)

Mozilla Kraken (lower = better): 9,800ms (+33%)
CB R11.5 Single: 0.26 (+50%)
CB R11.5 Multi: 0.52 ( +0%)
7-Zip Single: 880 (+20%)
7-Zip Multi: 1,500 (-35%)

3DMark Ice Storm: 10,450 (+260%)
GL/DX Benchmark: 16.6 fps (+700%)


That assumes perfect scaling, which might not necessarily be the case.

It'll be very interesting to see what Silvermont brings to the table.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
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I just dont understand the lack of SSD controller on the SoC. No one wants to deal with a slow-as-molasses 5400rpm hard drive. And OEMs will never accept the $50 increase in BOM. So you put the NAND controller on the die and make the OEMs fork over exactly the same amount of dollars in NAND as they would on a hard drive. Then they'll use the NAND. Through clever tricks you can make a 2 channel on-die SSD controller run just as fast as a 12 channel SSD controller through a PCH and a SATA interface. It is a complete mystery why they still havent done it.... they are jsut impaling a dead horse at this point. The computing experience you get from a HDD is simply unacceptable today. Most people would prefer android vs windows with HDD, it is just too frustrating, not to mention needlessly more expensive.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Amdahl's law is used to look at how a fixed algorithm will scale on hardware with increasing core counts. What I was talking about was developers writing algorithms which are designed to scale to 8 cores well... which is an entire different situation.

But yeah, the XBox One announcement was very underwhelming. "Here's a load of TV features! ...if you're in the US." This sums it up well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOxdMQhDMIU

You cant just multithread everything, thats the point.

And LOL@Video! :biggrin:
 
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