The AMD Mantle Thread

[SiliconWars]

The bigger "if" is if it outperforms a cheaper cpu like the atlon x4 750k and a HD 7750 GDDR5 to 7790 range card.

The desktop GT650 is pretty much a lousy card in every respect anyway.

The 7750 GDDR5 is already slightly faster than the GTX 650.

Obviously Kaveri isn't going to outperform a 7750 GDDR5. It has 10% lower clocks and half the memory bandwidth at best. The point would be if Kaveri and Mantle optimizations can overcome the GTX 650 + any decent CPU. In order for that to happen there will need to be some really good bandwidth optimizations, but the raw power in 512 GCN cores is basically thereabouts. It's all about freeing it up to do what it can do, and a couple more Mantle enabled abilities on top could be enough.

But yeah, it is a big "if". That lousy 650 is probably one of the most popular cards around btw, you gotta get out of the ultra enthusiast mindset if you think it's that bad...

 

[SiliconWars]

Lichdom will support Trueaudio and I think Thief will also.

 

[Noctifer616]

Taken from HardOCP:

Luckily, there are a few games set for release with TruAudio support: Star Citizen, Thief, Murdered Soul Suspect, Lichdom and Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013...series_rebranding_introduction/2#.Uqe0I-KHiUk

 

[DiogoDX]

This is going to be a little off-topic, but I don't want to necro and Google isn't turning up anything specific. And this is the AMD kool-aid thread anyway, so...

Do we have a list of TrueAudio-supporting games anywhere?

Announced games in the APU13 event:

Lichdom
Thief
Star Citizen
Murdered: Soul Suspect


Lichdom demo (must use stereo headphones):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6uUtf-lMQQ

 

[blastingcap]

Announced games in the APU13 event:

Lichdom
Thief
Star Citizen
Murdered: Soul Suspect


Lichdom demo (must use stereo headphones):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6uUtf-lMQQ

Am I supposed to be on the lookout (or hear-out) for anything in particular re: Lichdom? The comments to that youtube video are that many people can't tell the difference?

 

[SiliconWars]

Are you using headphones? The difference is in sound depth/distance perception.

 

[blastingcap]

Are you using headphones? The difference is in sound depth/distance perception.

I can barely tell a difference and I'm not sure if that's because I'm imagining things. But I'm not at my regular rig right now so I am using cheapo headphones I bought on on an airplane trip (lol), so maybe that isn't helping.

 

[SiliconWars]

It's pretty subtle tbh, maybe it'll be a bit more obvious with multiple sound sources.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Am I supposed to be on the lookout (or hear-out) for anything in particular re: Lichdom? The comments to that youtube video are that many people can't tell the difference?

I'm using headphones and there is a minor difference but nothing I'd care about.

 

[blackened23]

Are you using headphones? The difference is in sound depth/distance perception.

I don't get it.. This is more or less exactly what dobly surround, CMSS 3D and SBX surround does. Depth perception in a 3D soundspace. And it is effective, especially SBX surround and CMSS 3D. So what's the point of adding this to a GPU, exactly? Serious question. Motherboard integrated sound supports dolby surround (most of them do anyway), so i'm questioning the benefits here. Unless someone mysteriously buys a motherboard without an integrated realtek chip. I have never purchased a GPU for sound. Ever.

Seems like AMD could have put that little portion of R+D to better use somehow. This stuff might make sense on a console so MS or Sony can save a few bucks. But for PCs with integrated audio or discrete audio? Why? They do the same exact thing with industry standard 3d surround codecs.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I don't get it.. This is more or less exactly what dobly surround, CMSS 3D and SBX surround does. Depth perception in a 3D soundspace. And it is effective, especially SBX surround and CMSS 3D. So what's the point of adding this to a GPU, exactly? Serious question. Motherboard integrated sound supports dolby surround (most of them do anyway), so i'm questioning the benefits here. Unless someone mysteriously buys a motherboard without an integrated realtek chip. I have never purchased a GPU for sound. Ever.

Seems like AMD could have put that little portion of R+D to better use somehow. This stuff might make sense on a console so MS or Sony can save a few bucks. But for PCs with integrated audio or discrete audio? Why? They do the same exact thing with industry standard 3d surround codecs.

The reason from what I understand is that TrueAudio actually uses game data to play sounds at the correct distances from your head. Dolby Headphone just emulates surround, with no actual distance values from the game being used.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The reason from what I understand is that TrueAudio actually uses game data to play sounds at the correct distances from your head. Dolby Headphone just emulates surround, with no actual distance values from the game being used.

So basically a slight variation in sound levels based on distance?

That's probably why there was barely any discernible difference in the video.

 

[NTMBK]

I thought it was pretty neat on the "lightning particle" demo they did. Without TrueAudio, it sounded like the particle was going from one side of me to the other side, in a straight line; with TrueAudio, it actually sounded like it was going to the right, then in front, then to the left, then behind, in a circle. The fact that you could tell whether it was in front of you or behind you with your eyes closed was pretty impressive.

 

[blastingcap]

I thought it was pretty neat on the "lightning particle" demo they did. Without TrueAudio, it sounded like the particle was going from one side of me to the other side, in a straight line; with TrueAudio, it actually sounded like it was going to the right, then in front, then to the left, then behind, in a circle. The fact that you could tell whether it was in front of you or behind you with your eyes closed was pretty impressive.

Is it really new tech though? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

 

[NTMBK]

Is it really new tech though? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

Yes.

I'm familiar with the "barber shop" demo, and that sprung to mind as I listened to the TrueAudio demo. But there is one fundamental difference; the barber shop demo is done using a physical reproduction of the human head, with a pair of microphones mounted where the ears would be. It's a cool trick, but it's still just measuring actual physical scenarios. The whole point of Lichdom's audio demo is that it can reproduce that effect through software, for completely fantastical situations.

 

[blastingcap]

Yes.

I'm familiar with the "barber shop" demo, and that sprung to mind as I listened to the TrueAudio demo. But there is one fundamental difference; the barber shop demo is done using a physical reproduction of the human head, with a pair of microphones mounted where the ears would be. It's a cool trick, but it's still just measuring actual physical scenarios. The whole point of Lichdom's audio demo is that it can reproduce that effect through software, for completely fantastical situations.

Ahh I see. Can't wait to hear it in games!

 

[3DVagabond]

The reason from what I understand is that TrueAudio actually uses game data to play sounds at the correct distances from your head. Dolby Headphone just emulates surround, with no actual distance values from the game being used.

With Trueaudio there is an actual 3D acoustical environment created. It's not simply placing objects within a sound stage. For example, if you are in a closet the acoustics are different than if you are in an auditorium even though the sound source can be in the same location relative to you. Thanks to the massive parallel computing ability of the GPU it has the capability to do this with a huge amount of objects and virtually limitless environments. It's not Dolby surround at all. The best description I've heard is it's to audio what ray tracing is to visuals.

 

[MeldarthX]

Blastingcap; trueaudio has been around for while; but gotten no traction until now..... I've seriously hated audio for the last ten years as its stood still; finally its moving forward again

 

[blackened23]

I thought it was pretty neat on the "lightning particle" demo they did. Without TrueAudio, it sounded like the particle was going from one side of me to the other side, in a straight line; with TrueAudio, it actually sounded like it was going to the right, then in front, then to the left, then behind, in a circle. The fact that you could tell whether it was in front of you or behind you with your eyes closed was pretty impressive.

This is exactly what existing 3d surround standards such as dobly, CMSS 3d, and SBX surround DO. Integrated motherboard sound solutions already offer this.

 

[Erenhardt]

Anyone used 5.1 headphones? How does it work? Any suggestion which are good for the price. I would like to get a set for X-mass, but don't know what to look for.

 

[MeldarthX]

This is exactly what existing 3d surround standards such as dobly, CMSS 3d, and SBX surround DO. Integrated motherboard sound solutions already offer this.

No they really don't Blackened. Not offloading gpu audio with true posistioning. That takes far, far too much cpu power to do.

All of those similate; they don't do true positioning.

Last real step forward in audio was EAX - which was killed by MS with vista.....and mb audio becoming ok.....*I won't ever say good enough as its not*

 

[Gloomy]

Anyone used 5.1 headphones? How does it work? Any suggestion which are good for the price. I would like to get a set for X-mass, but don't know what to look for.

5.1 headphones don't work any differently than regular headphones. Adding more speakers only increases spatial awareness because the speakers are situated in a specific point in space; speakers in front of you have problems recreating sounds behind you and so on. However, headphones do not have this problem, because the sound comes out at your ears, where you hear from anyway, and algorithms exist that simulate the minute differences in sound at each ear that allows you to tell where from the sounds originate in 3D space. This is why all these sound demos require headphones and not multiple-speaker systems.

spend that money on good headphones instead of 5.1 surround sound wow so gamer call of duty branded scam artist snake oil placebo garbage

I recommend ATH-AD700, they're extremely comfortable and sound good.

 

[blastingcap]

5.1 headphones don't work any differently than regular headphones. Adding more speakers only increases spatial awareness because the speakers are situated in a specific point in space; speakers in front of you have problems recreating sounds behind you and so on. However, headphones do not have this problem, because the sound comes out at your ears, where you hear from anyway, and algorithms exist that simulate the minute differences in sound at each ear that allows you to tell where from the sounds originate in 3D space. This is why all these sound demos require headphones and not multiple-speaker systems.

spend that money on good headphones instead of 5.1 surround sound wow so gamer call of duty branded scam artist snake oil placebo garbage

I recommend ATH-AD700, they're extremely comfortable and sound good.

Are you saying that if you have a Surround speaker system, then that supersedes TrueAudio? So TrueAudio is really just for headphone users? Not that I mind, since I game with headphones anyway.

 

[blackened23]

No they really don't Blackened. Not offloading gpu audio with true posistioning. That takes far, far too much cpu power to do.

All of those similate; they don't do true positioning.

Last real step forward in audio was EAX - which was killed by MS with vista.....and mb audio becoming ok.....*I won't ever say good enough as its not*

So do you concede that in terms of actual positional audio, that true audio doesn't do anything different? And changing the argument to "cpu utilization"? Not trying to be facetious or anything, i'm just making sure i'm understanding you here. Because if that is the implication, you're completely incorrect about cpu usage. 3d surround audio takes virtually zero CPU utilization these days, maybe you're thinking of like, 1998 or something. 1998 has come and gone. When aureal was around, this type of thing mattered. 3d hardware audio *had* a tangible and appreciable benefit that could be measured, that is no longer the case.

You can use CMSS 3D now and the effect on CPU utilization is zero. You can also use dolby surround. CPUs are so fast now that these things have absolutely zero effect on framerate. CPUs became so fast 8-10 years ago that 3d hardware accelerated audio became a moot point. Again, you're thinking of 1998 or something when hardware 3d audio mattered. 3d audio has zero effect on cpu utilization currently. Why do you think Directsound stopped supporting hardware 3d audio? It's because it isn't needed. I've sat down and watched CPU utilization on a 3770k with SBX surround, and to say that nothing happened in terms of CPU use would be an understatement, again - it isn't 1998. Intel CPUs are so fast now that this has absolutely ZERO. ZERO effect on framerate or CPU utilization.

 

[Gloomy]

Are you saying that if you have a Surround speaker system, then that supersedes TrueAudio? So TrueAudio is really just for headphone users? Not that I mind, since I game with headphones anyway.

No, I'm saying that if you game with a speaker system, you'd need a surround system (that is properly calibrated) to really experience trueaudio. And even then it wouldn't be as immersive as headphones (the room you're sitting in would color the game's sound unless you're gaming in an anechoic chamber)