Quick question, does mantle have any performance benefits for something like real time ray tracing?
Obviously the console version is different than the PC version. Probably due to the weaker CPU a lot of the CPU heavy options have been cut out (shadows, etc).
Looking at FX and kabini you must remember than kabini does not have the module penalty (has the weird stuff with BF4 and hex cores been fixed?). I was comparing against sandy i3 because generally kabini performs around dual + HT sandy/ivy against quad kabini at the same speed.
Looking at the 4300 and the 6300. 6300 is 34% faster in raw framerate despite clocking 9% slower (normalize the clockspeed and the 4300 would get 52 fps so the 6300 would be 44% faster which is really good scaling). Completely ideal would be 50%.
I'm simply saying that an 8 core kabini has roughly the same throughput as an i3 ivy at roughly twice the clockspeed (3.2 ghz). Reduce kabini to 6 cores but at the same time reduce game settings and the two are fairly well matched in terms of power.
This post is complete nonsense. You do realize that developers have been using DirectCompute in games with none of the issues you are describing?
Civilization 5, Battlefield 3 and 4, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider all use DirectCompute for certain effects and it's all done through DX11..
What I don't understand is why AMD is using such a GPU-limited game as Bf4 to show off Mantle to the world. If the performance increase is something as measly as 10~20%, and it probably will be, people will get the perception that Mantle is worthless.
You mean the company responsible for stabilising the PC software market, providing a consistent API and platform for developers to target and giving them a basis for producing great software? Microsoft aren't all evil, despite the bad press they seem to get. Quite a few of their products have been useful, and let other people do great things.
Looks like December for BF4 Mantle isn't happening. Game is broken. Priority goes to fixing the actual game. Which is unfortunate because many of us are anxious to see what Mantle can do.
It may just be that the mantle layer wasn't ready either. There is every possibility that AMDs api and driver for mantle are still too buggy to push for release. Regardless it doesn't look like we are getting mantle this year, because now onwards is a really bad time to push put a potentially very buggy release with all the devs on holiday.
I doubt it's that buggy, it's supposed to be closer to how their hardware works. less code = less bugs
It's more likely DICE/the frostbite team having too much on their plate.
I agree on BF4 being and odd choice.
Microsoft is one of the top companies involved in the NSA scandal.
The question is, with the spinoff of Frostbite as it seems. Will Mantle ever happen for BF4? The game is a disaster and rumours says heads are starting to roll at DICE. And in terms of the game, Mantle must be absolute at the bottom of the priorities. EA/DICE must be at a point, where its about salvage what they can from the game and revenue, rather than to do anything fancy for a minority segment that doesnt contribute to anything since they already run the DX path. Its all about resources. Something some people quickly disregarded as an issue with Mantle implementation.
If their fixes for the DX version change the game enough, won't that possibly break Mantle compatibility? So they would have to fix it for DX, then re-validate all their Mantle work, which takes extra resources and presumably extra time.
... gameplay and bugs are more important atm, and DICE is just doing a horrible job of it.
If a different company had been in Microsoft's position, then they would also have been a top company involved in the NSA scandal. The NSA targeted US tech giants, using ridiculous legal powers to force them to comply- and denying them the right to let the world know what was happening. They had no choice in the matter, and they want those laws changed.
You won't get a buggy mantle code, because if it is buggy, it's going to be BSODs and Freezing, not just a simple driver/DX crash.
I have no doubt that it is delayed. But cancelled? Unlikely. If, as you speculate, AMD were paying DICE to implement Mantle, then that means that there is a contract between the two of them. And that means that they can't just back out of putting Mantle in.
What I don't understand is why AMD is using such a GPU-limited game as Bf4 to show off Mantle to the world. If the performance increase is something as measly as 10~20%, and it probably will be, people will get the perception that Mantle is worthless.
If thats the case, its a huge design flaw in Mantle. And something I doubt MS would validate as a driver for signing with Windows.
I am sure there are loopholes out of it. For example spinoff of Frostbite
There is a lot of asumptions in the above. *SNIP*
If thats the case, its a huge design flaw in Mantle. And something I doubt MS would validate as a driver for signing with Windows.
That is one of the trade offs they have directly talked about. Validating that the developers are making the right calls is now left to the developers and not in the API. The way in which Mantle gets a large part of its reduction in overhead is by removing all the checks that ensure the frame can be rendered correctly and that the call is valid.
So if they have a bug in the calls to Mantle we should expect the frame at the very least to be mangled, but we should expect an increase in hard locks of the machine as well.
While it might make performance less of a problem it will increase the number of times developers have issues while developing a game. The lack of validation will make it harder to debug the API layer, so this delay might very well be because the interface is buggy (from AMD or Dice's side).
Everything about mantle in this thread, including you own posts are asumptions, due to the lack of performance numbers (not PR slides or will 3000% claims)...just simple DATA.
There is no driver. Mantle is inside the game. Microsoft has no say
"Mantle, an AMD initiative to create a new graphics programming model that fully exploits the capabilities of modern GPUs, allows game developers to speak the native language of the AMD Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture, providing a deeper level of hardware optimisation no other graphics card manufacturer can match," AMD said in a statement. "As part of this initiative, we have worked with leading game developers to create an API specification and associated graphics driver that enables this model on PCs with GCN-based graphics hardware. Mantle was created in direct response to requests from leading game developers, so interest is very high."
Mantle is doing the opposite...I predict an increase in BSOD's when Mantle is involved ^^
Not entirely sure why that makes you happy...
Not entirely sure why that makes you happy...