The AMD Mantle Thread

[3DVagabond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yak25TKCCrc

Oxide games' Dan Baker says it took him 2 months to implement. Just him.

I would imagine it took the entire engine team at DICE longer because they were actually making the API. Seems like it won't be that hard to get working in engines after the get the Alpha and Beta API done and push for the release version of it.

Dice didn't make the API, AMD did. Dice were the first. It's going to take a lot longer for the first engine to incorporate it.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Dice didn't make the API, AMD did. Dice were the first. It's going to take a lot longer for the first engine to incorporate it.

I was under the understanding that it was AMD engineers and DICE that built it from the ground up. Gotta run to work, but I'm going to look for more information.

 

[Paul98]

Imo, keeping visual parity between DX and Mantle makes more sense for the studios.

Why, we already have video settings and better computers can already get better graphics. My guess is that both will be able to run at the same video settings and look the same. There could be settings that really hurt performance on DX and on Mantle they don't so if you want decent performance you have to turn the setting on DX down compared to mantle.

 

[Spjut]

Why, we already have video settings and better computers can already get better graphics. My guess is that both will be able to run at the same video settings and look the same. There could be settings that really hurt performance on DX and on Mantle they don't so if you want decent performance you have to turn the setting on DX down compared to mantle.

Things could change in a couple of years, but my reasoning is that studios are more interested in getting acceptable performance on the low-end side, rather than reaching new heights on the high-end.
Adding Mantle, and then to use it to increase the visual fidelity over DX11 would presumably mean additional extra costs, and games obviously can't do it to a huge degree if it only benefits GCN cards.

 

[Paul98]

Things could change in a couple of years, but my reasoning is that studios are more interested in getting acceptable performance on the low-end side, rather than reaching new heights on the high-end.
Adding Mantle, and then to use it to increase the visual fidelity over DX11 would presumably mean additional extra costs, and games obviously can't do it to a huge degree if it only benefits GCN cards.

There are very simple things that can be done to increase visual quality that take no time.

 

[zlatan]

I was under the understanding that it was AMD engineers and DICE that built it from the ground up.

DICE "just" ask AMD, Intel and NV to create a low-level API for PC. Intel and NV refuse this request, but AMD accept it, because of they dual console design wins - if not now than never.
This API is built by AMD, but in close collaboration with DICE.

 

[Phynaz]

There are very simple things that can be done to increase visual quality that take no time.

Such as....

 

[PPB]

Such as....

Increase texture quality, increase tesselation quantity/quality, add more drawdistance/push the distance objects turn to their low poly/low texture counterparts, enable more quantity and better quality of terrain ornaments, as DICE calls it (certainly those 2D always-face-me trees in BF3/4 at the desertor zones could get replaced for 3D proxies).

For lighting I can think of few, like enabling higher res spotlight shadowmaps, increasing total spotlight lighting in the scene, higher fidelity AO, etc.






PD: Are you ever going to add something valuable to a discussion? Or those 5+K responses are always monosilabyc attemps at a witty remark?


Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

-Rvenger

 

[frozentundra123456]

Increase texture quality, increase tesselation quantity/quality, add more drawdistance/push the distance objects turn to their low poly/low texture counterparts, enable more quantity and better quality of terrain ornaments, as DICE calls it (certainly those 2D always-face-me trees in BF3/4 at the desertor zones could get replaced for 3D proxies).

For lighting I can think of few, like enabling higher res spotlight shadowmaps, increasing total spotlight lighting in the scene, higher fidelity AO, etc.






PD: Are you ever going to add something valuable to a discussion? Or those 5+K responses are always monosilabyc attemps at a witty remark?

I think the reservation was the "no time" allegation. It may be (or not) relatively simple, but I seriously doubt it takes "no time".

 

[Stewox]

Dice didn't make the API, AMD did. Dice were the first. It's going to take a lot longer for the first engine to incorporate it.

Johan Andersson was deeply involved in the development of Mantle.

AMD should have paid EA to drop a DirectCompute bomb on Nvidia GPUs like they did with Dirt:Showdown, instead of making Mantle. Would have sold more chips that way :thumbsup:

This is not an investor conference. [redacted]

Such as....

that's one of the easiest things to do, studios already have much higher offline quality builds, the source textures, the source models, the source audio, ... mantle is a dream come true to all those departments who had their creativity limited and who were disappointed to see all kinds of cuts to their work in order to make game fast enough (Rage, carmack was talking all about that ... etc)



Next time I see a personal attack or profanity you will earn yourself a day off.

-Rvenger

 

[Paul98]

Such as....

adjusting variables controlling the number of objects and LOD on screen.

 

[PPB]

I think the reservation was the "no time" allegation. It may be (or not) relatively simple, but I seriously doubt it takes "no time".

I took the "no time" as a figure of speech, as a easy to implement, low time consuming application of better quality in a video game.

Anyways, most of the things I mentioned (at least, the ones referring to the "quality" of the things that define the IQ of a videogame) can be really low time consuming for a developer to change. The quantity part can be tricky as, at least in BF4s case, you have to spend time placing in the map editor the elements.

I think the point still stands, not only by what I said but also when you consider that in the final phase of a game, the so called "optimization" phase usually consist of castrating the IQ of what otherwise would be a more demanding game. The Levolution has taken a IQ hit in the latest patches to improve server and client stability, for example, in BF4. It was really taxing. And I can bet that wasnt the only thing that took a IQ hit before going retail. The BF3 beta was a lot more telling in that aspect (a lot of destruction was taken out when it hit retail, specially terrain).

 

[Rvenger]

Guys,

If I see anymore trolling, baiting, thread crapping, or off topic remarks I will be handing out infractions and maybe even vacations. Please keep this discussion in line to the topic and please respect one another.


Thread reopened

-Rvenger

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Dice didn't make the API, AMD did. Dice were the first. It's going to take a lot longer for the first engine to incorporate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KApdf4P2Iak#t=600

Here's why I said I thought DICE had a huge hand in the creation of Mantle.

It's being built by AMD, in close collaboration with us (DICE/EA).

Now that the thread is reopened I implore you ALL to please stay on topic, and be civil. This thread, the gsync thread, and the freesync thread are the only things worth discussing in VC&G right now so I beg you. Stop getting it locked.

How am I supposed to waste time at work when the thread is locked? :whiste:

 

[moonbogg]

Any word on when this is coming to fruition? Or did they just say "delayed until January" and left it at that? I am pretty sure that the FPS increase caused by Mantle in BF4 will be directly proportional to Mantle's adoption rate and success.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Any word on when this is coming to fruition? Or did they just say "delayed until January" and left it at that? I am pretty sure that the FPS increase caused by Mantle in BF4 will be directly proportional to Mantle's adoption rate and success.

It's "Q1" now:

Combined with the less than impressive BF4 demo this has gotten hilarious...forgotten is BF4 and posters now post about improvements in the 1000%'s in the future...it went from PR to bonkers


December -> January -> Q1...damn it simple and easy to do :whiste:

 

[Freaksterz]

[redacted] You just wait for this to get unlocked to jump on the whining train don't you?

Warning issued for profanity and personal attack.
-- stahlhart

 

[moonbogg]

It's "Q1" now:


Combined with the less than impressive BF4 demo this has gotten hilarious...forgotten is BF4 and posters now post about improvements in the 1000%'s in the future...it went from PR to bonkers


December -> January -> Q1...damn it simple and easy to do :whiste:

What, this demo?

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/01/09/b...e-during-ces-conference-runs-up-to-45-faster/

31 minutes in is where it all at. Two lag spikes show up on screen which look bad, but maybe it was just loading the level. Also, too bad they didn't do a side by side comparison. Why on earth would they NOT do that?

 

[dguy6789]

I would rather them delay Mantle and get it right than just push it out in a rush and have it turn out like PhysX or something

 

[moonbogg]

I would rather them delay Mantle and get it right than just push it out in a rush and have it turn out like PhysX or something

LOL. I'd have to agree. PhysX is the most useless garbage ever. I have much higher hopes for Mantle.

 

[Paul98]

Yesterday or two days ago on battlelog they said they were in the final phase of the next update and expect the update later in January. They didn't mention if that was the mantle update or not but could be. Guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Lonbjerg]

What, this demo?

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/01/09/b...e-during-ces-conference-runs-up-to-45-faster/

31 minutes in is where it all at. Two lag spikes show up on screen which look bad, but maybe it was just loading the level. Also, too bad they didn't do a side by side comparison. Why on earth would they NOT do that?

If you look back in this thread, you will find posts about how this didn't look like a "45%" boost....and straight after that posters came in, tying to cover it up with posts speculating on bonkers performance increases.

Because looking at the GPU/CPU graphs of that demo...wasn't exactly "earthshattering" ^^

 

[Skurge]

It's "Q1" now:

Combined with the less than impressive BF4 demo this has gotten hilarious...forgotten is BF4 and posters now post about improvements in the 1000%'s in the future...it went from PR to bonkers


December -> January -> Q1...damn it simple and easy to do :whiste:

The driver is coming in Q1, not the Mantle patch. L2R

 

[ultimatebob]

As someone who has written software release schedules in the past, trust me... When someone says "Q1" they usually mean late March. It's usually code for "We totally missed our promised January release date, and we don't want to admit to the public how much we blew our schedule"

 

[frozentundra123456]

As someone who has written software release schedules in the past, trust me... When someone says "Q1" they usually mean late March. It's usually code for "We totally missed our promised January release date, and we don't want to admit to the public how much we blew our schedule"

Actually the first promised released date was December 2013. January was already a delay.