The AMD Mantle Thread

[Techhog]

Nope, AMD will own a big part of the gaming market, namely XB1, PS4 and the share of PCs with GCN cards.

A game coded for mantle as far as i understood would not have to be ported at all to run on a PC with a GCN GPU. The port to D3D then is only required for NV cards and older AMD cards.

Well, there's still the CPU and RAM configurations to account for, among other things.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I've never seen PC gamers admire console graphics so much.......

Don't we the PC gamers always complain about poor PC ports?

 

[OCGuy]

Don't we the PC gamers always complain about poor PC ports?

I'm not sure how DICE wanting to make it easier to port to PC from a game they optimize for console fixes that....

 

[exar333]

Don't we the PC gamers always complain about poor PC ports?

Exactly. Or we complain because we have to wait 6 months for the PC release (GTA V anyone?). This is GOOD for all gamers.

I love PC gaming, but I also like choices. I play probably 70% of my games on the PC, but love to have the option to play others on a console. There is something to be said about gaming together on a console for some games, as well as some others that just work well with a controller, relaxing on the couch.

 

[Kenmitch]

I just think it is funny that most people saw something like this coming when AMD got xbox+ps yet there were a few people who were incredibly vocal in insisting that AMD would not get any optimizations out of it.

If this pans out do you think NVIDIA will still say that consoles were not worth the effort?

Yep....A lot of crow was eaten last night it looks like.

Would have loved to see JHH's reaction to the announcement.

There is always the brute force approach

AMD is currently playing a chess match and looks to somewhat have a strategy this time.

Mantle looks interesting to me as it seems like the logical way to go. The performance gains from generation to generation look to be pretty weak these days. Software looks to be the current Achilles heal to the industry.

 

[Silverforce11]

I'm not sure how DICE wanting to make it easier to port to PC from a game they optimize for console fixes that....

You could:

1. Buy a low-end GCN radeon and run 60 fps in BF4.. which would be impossible on DX.

or

2. Buy a high end GCN radeon and run 120 fps in BF, at 1600p or more.

Low level optimized API means more performance for less. You can figure the rest out.

 

[exar333]

Yep....A lot of crow was eaten last night it looks like.

Would have loved to see JHH's reaction to the announcement.

There is always the brute force approach

AMD is currently playing a chess match and looks to somewhat have a strategy this time.

Mantle looks interesting to me as it seems like the logical way to go. The performance gains from generation to generation look to be pretty weak these days. Software looks to be the current Achilles heal to the industry.

Totally agree!

There is a reason I stuck with 3DFX back in the day, from the original M3D to the Voodoo3. Hint: Glide.

Anyone who saw GLQuake back then was in the same boat. Who doesn't want MORE performance on the same game, with the same hardware. I hope this becomes a new standard and not a secondary API long-term.

As one who was very ready to pull the trigger on a GTX 780, I am now thinking I will wait a bit more and see how this plays out.

 

[OCGuy]

You could:

1. Buy a low-end GCN radeon and run 60 fps in BF4.. which would be impossible on DX.

or

2. Buy a high end GCN radeon and run 120 fps in BF, at 1600p or more.

Low level optimized API means more performance for less. You can figure the rest out.

Except if your graphics are limited to console settings, why wouldn't you just buy an Xbox?

I'll be interested in seeing a 100% improvement (in your example) with no IQ or draw distance hits.....

Something tells me if it was so dramatic, they would have made sure it was ready at BF launch...

 

[exar333]

Except if your graphics are limited to console settings, why wouldn't you just buy an Xbox?

I'll be interested in seeing a 100% improvement (in your example) with no IQ or draw distance hits.....

Something tells me if it was so dramatic, they would have made sure it was ready at BF launch...

Why would they be limited? PC ports today offer higher resolutions, better performance, more draw distance, AA/etc. if you have the horsepower to do so. This statement doesn't make any sense.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Except if your graphics are limited to console settings, why wouldn't you just buy an Xbox?

I'll be interested in seeing a 100% improvement (in your example) with no IQ or draw distance hits.....

Something tells me if it was so dramatic, they would have made sure it was ready at BF launch...

Who is saying anything about this being about limiting settings to console settings?

It is about using the wrapper to directly talk to the hardware, which allows to have better performance at the HIGHER PC SETTINGS.

 

[Genx87]

Nope, AMD will own a big part of the gaming market, namely XB1, PS4 and the share of PCs with GCN cards.

A game coded for mantle as far as i understood would not have to be ported at all to run on a PC with a GCN GPU. The port to D3D then is only required for NV cards and older AMD cards.

Sure it would need to be ported. Moving a game from a console to a PC isnt as easy as people belive. It is ported and would require they create a rendering path to utilize this within a PC game. This will require debugging and testing. So the question will become how many devs will utilize this? Only time will tell.

 

[Kenmitch]

Why would they be limited? PC ports today offer higher resolutions, better performance, more draw distance, AA/etc. if you have the horsepower to do so. This statement doesn't make any sense.

Yep....Mantle will just make it easier to crank up the detail without performance hits(at least lower hit) if it pans out and is utilized by developers to it's full potential.

Not like those who choose NVidia cards won't be able to play games at high settings using brute force.

 

[exar333]

Who is saying anything about this being about limiting settings to console settings?

It is about using the wrapper to directly talk to the hardware, which allows to have better performance at the HIGHER PC SETTINGS.

Theoretically, this gives us more PC content than we have now. Devs could focus less on compatibility and more on providing scalable graphics options on the PC because the tools and API is so similar.

 

[ArizonaSteve]

Has there been any comment from nVidia on this? Since this is an open standard they should potentially be able to write Mantle drivers of their own.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

It seems like such a good idea at first, kind of like Glide did (now there's a history lesson).

But DirectX is slower not because it's somehow really badly coded, it just trades performance for hardware compatibility by the way of using more abstraction. The loss of compatibility would be a grave blow for the PC market in the long run, it's what creates and open and healthy market that keeps prices in check and drives R&D to produce ever faster components.

I see Mantle making multi-platform development even easier and this being just another reason to maintain the development philosophy of lowest common denominator development. The last thing we need is the next 7 years of the PC market being flooded by the same rehashed console trash and having a repeat of the current generation.

Especially when in 1-2 years into the console lifecycle the hardware lead the PC will have will be so massive that Mantle will represent a small percentage of that. Woooo you have an AMD at 500fps and I have Nvidia at 450fps!!! How about we do away with console trash and have a game we can only run at 60fps but doesn't look 7 years old?!

 

[GaiaHunter]

Has there been any comment from nVidia on this? Since this is an open standard they should potentially be able to write Mantle drivers of their own.

I haven't seen nvidia focus group members commenting on this yet either and I doubt it was the first time they heard about Mantle.

So it is possible that NVIDIA will announce some similar initiative, maybe based on steam OS or some such.

 

[JAG87]

I'll go ahead and leave these 2c here for posterity.

This API will only succeed if it's going to be cross platform. A-la OpenGL, this needs to be cross platform for AMD hardware. Both devs and AMD don't [care] about performance. It is not an important metric for the consumer (i.e. not AT VCG forum members). All AMD and devs care about is revenue: how many GPUs and how many copies are sold. All the consumer cares about: can I play it on my device?

If AMD plays their cards right, they could have their GCN architecture in every gaming device out there: consoles (XB1/PS4/SteamBox) PCs (Windows/MacOS), tablets (Android/iOS/Windows). Maybe even phones. Devs would have to do far less work to get their games working on every one of these devices. Consumers would get their favorite game released on all these platforms, and they'd be able to play on day 1 regardless of what they own, which = more sales for devs.

Play it right AMD. Relegate it to Windows only, and it will die just like Glide.

Profanity isn't allowed in the technical forums.
-- stahlhart

 

[Kenmitch]

Has there been any comment from nVidia on this? Since this is an open standard they should potentially be able to write Mantle drivers of their own.

Who said it was a open standard? I thought it was just stated as it was cross-platform. Thinking this just means from console to console to PC to future devices. Nothing said anything about Mantle which was designed to harness GCN to it's full potential being able to do the same for NVidia. Think the key word is GCN.

 

[thilanliyan]

If this allows me to build a gaming PC without the need for Windows (eventually), I'm all for it.

 

[Techhog]

Has there been any comment from nVidia on this? Since this is an open standard they should potentially be able to write Mantle drivers of their own.

Since there's probably a hardware aspect to it, Nvidia likely won't be able to add it retroactively and will have to wait until the GTX 900 series at the earliest to try it. Still, since it looks like AMD is staying focused strictly on the budget segment going forward, Nvidia will win in DX while AMD wins in games that use Mantle.

 

[Stuka87]

Has there been any comment from nVidia on this? Since this is an open standard they should potentially be able to write Mantle drivers of their own.

mantle is cross platform (ie: windows, linux, maybe Mac), but NOT an open standard.

nVidia's API would not be a simple port like it is for AMD cards that share the same platform as the consoles.

 

[reb0rn]

mantel will make of your PC dump console box and you can play BF4 and COD9 for the nest 10 years....

 

[MeldarthX]

mantle is cross platform (ie: windows, linux, maybe Mac), but NOT an open standard.

nVidia's API would not be a simple port like it is for AMD cards that share the same platform as the consoles.

It is an open standard; nvidia can use it....will they doubtful.

 

[blackened23]

It is an open standard; nvidia can use it....will they doubtful.

"Mantle: requires a GCN architecture GPU"

I fail to see how nvidia could possibly use Mantle. Sadly, it does appear limited to AMD's GCN architecture.

 

[Teizo]

Wait a minute, so then software will come in a "Mantle" version, and then a plain vanilla version?

That would suck. I don't want to buy software that has vendor-specific code cooked in. They should follow NVidia's lead and make Mantle a selectable feature, so you can buy one game software, and run it on whatever, and if you have the supported features, it will take advantage of them. Don't tie me down to a mantle-specific version of a game, because who knows what my next video card will be?

Sounds like it's going an update supplied by the game developers, almost like a patch.

I suspect the patch will likely do a vendor I.D. check to see if it's applicable.