The AMD Mantle Thread

[ASM-coder]

Arghhh!
According to Tom's Hardware:
"We can reportedly expect an update on AMD's progress this afternoon (EST). AMD is also going to first give the press 24 hours to evaluate the drivers before going through with a public release. Because of this, AMD will likely have to label it Catalyst 14.2 Beta, rather than 14.1 Beta, as the calendars will have flipped over to February by then."

 

[TerryMathews]

Uh. Context? Benchmarking by who? You? Or a review website?

I think it does take that long. For you it may not take that long, but for a review website interested in giving impartial results - there's a lot of pain associated with that from what i've read. There's a lot of stuff that happens to ensure results are reproducible and applicable, not to mention that the same scenes have to be hands down perfect across multiple runs. Across a long time span of 15+ minutes per tested scene.

Benchmarking done by a website isn't simply a matter of doing a 30 second run and saying screw it, that's it, from what I understand. Especially with the new boost algorithms of GPUs - there's a lot more pain associated with benchmarking than you seem to be aware of. At least if you want to provide credible results. Now there are websites that aren't interested in giving credible results. But for those that do. Benchmarking isn't a 5 minute affair as you think it is. Benchmarking Mantle and comparing it to similar nvidia hardware isn't going to be a 5 minute affair. Even ensuring the game scenes tested are exactly the same across multiple runs and a long time span (due to boost for both AMD/NV) takes a darn long time.

Assuming AMD meets there release goal, that would give 12 hours of review time "today" on the east coast, 15 on the west coast.

 

[Stormflux]

I for one am really looking forward to seeing impartial benchmarks and results. As someone who's running an aging OC'd i7 930 at 4.0ghz, and a single GTX460, formerly SLI GTX460 (never again), I'm wanting to do a minor upgrade, before a full new build when Oculus and Star Citizen fully come out.

As the LGA1366 chipset is discontinued, reducing any CPU bottleneck that may appear would let me comfortably go for a 290 (if it weren't inflated). Aside from that, this Mantle stuff is great on the basic premise of getting OpenGL and DirectX development off their asses.

 

[el etro]

Mantle is only interessting if you care about AMD's CPUs. Everyone with an Intel processor need not to care about Mantle.

i3 processors benefit from mantle, i5 processors benefit from mantle, i7(4c) processors benefit from mantle. Even i7 extreme benefit from mantle.

They could split Direct3D in two....

...Yes, this would be a nightmare to support, but hey ...

If it would be a nightmare to support, then....

Consider Mantle is close to PS4 development.

 

[jhu]

Oh my, huge thread...

How does Mantle affect GPGPU performance?

 

[OCGuy]

Arghhh!
According to Tom's Hardware:
"We can reportedly expect an update on AMD's progress this afternoon (EST). AMD is also going to first give the press 24 hours to evaluate the drivers before going through with a public release. Because of this, AMD will likely have to label it Catalyst 14.2 Beta, rather than 14.1 Beta, as the calendars will have flipped over to February by then."

Although Tom's would be incorrect in assuming the name change:

Which is what led me to post this previously:

The initial drivers are the 14.1 Betas, and AMD has a history of launching the previous month's betas at the very beginning of the next month....first week of February is my guess.

 

[Gloomy]

Oh my, huge thread...

How does Mantle affect GPGPU performance?

Not at all. According to AMD, OpenCL and DirectCompute are modern APIs and the industry doesn't need to be saved from them like Direct3D.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Not at all. According to AMD, OpenCL and DirectCompute are modern APIs and the industry doesn't need to be saved from them like Direct3D.

I haven't really had any issues using dx11 myself. I feel performance is fine. Is it their words or yours "saved from..."?

 

[Elfear]

I haven't really had any issues using dx11 myself. I feel performance is fine. Is it their words or yours "saved from..."?

To be fair you're running two overclocked 670's so I don't imagine you have too many problems with performance. API optimizations will help out the low- to mid-range rigs a lot more I'd imagine.

 

[Gloomy]

I haven't really had any issues using dx11 myself. I feel performance is fine. Is it their words or yours "saved from..."?

AMD is saving the industry. Haven't you heard?

http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2014/01/08/doing-the-work-for-everyone

 

[cmdrdredd]

To be fair you're running two overclocked 670's so I don't imagine you have too many problems with performance. API optimizations will help out the low- to mid-range rigs a lot more I'd imagine.

It doesn't appear mantle works that way though. Ultra high end gets more of a performance boost.

That aside I was more cusious as to the choice of wording. "Saved from directx" as if its a plague or something. To me it sounds like clever marketing or someone trying to downplay directx. Directx standardized a lot of things. A developer can write a game once and every GPU with the proper festureset and driver support can run it. Can it be improved in some ways? Sure but it isn't a scourge or anything like that if someone was thinking along those lines.

 

[OCGuy]

It doesn't appear mantle works that way though. Ultra high end gets more of a performance boost.

That aside I was more cusious as to the choice of wording. "Saved from directx" as if its a plague or something. To me it sounds like clever marketing or someone trying to downplay directx.

Any CPU bottlenecked situation......the "ultra high end" you are referencing is probably 2X 290X, but @ 1080p.

 

[cmdrdredd]

AMD is saving the industry. Haven't you heard?

http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2014/01/08/doing-the-work-for-everyone

Reads like a philanthropist mission statement. I dont think any company who developes technology and hardware is not thinking the same thing, move the industry forward. I do think that a lot of it has to do with offering an incentive to purchase a product first and to be a savior second.

 

[smackababy]

So, all these benchmarks are always in different locations for each tier of graphics. Could those be the best case scenarios? I mean, none of them are done on a standard benchmark area, and none are done under any of similar circumstances. Heck, they aren't even done on the same map.

 

[el etro]

A game I'd really like to see Mantle used in is Starcraft 2. Even with huge GPU power that game will give you low FPS with a lot going on at once. It is poorly threaded like all Blizzard games and gobbles up CPU.

I dislike that Blizzard games are only well optimized todays for Nvidia GPUs.

Dice essentially did Port it. Not from Console to PC, but from DX to Mantle.

This.

As the LGA1366 chipset is discontinued, reducing any CPU bottleneck that may appear would let me comfortably go for a 290 (if it weren't inflated). Aside from that, this Mantle stuff is great on the basic premise of getting OpenGL and DirectX development off their asses.

Maybe Two 290, or at least two 7970Ghz.

 

[Midwayman]

I love how team green is so sure there are zero benefits despite any independent benches. Even if all you get an increase in minimum frame rate where you are CPU bound it seems like it will be worthwhile.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I love how team green is so sure there are zero benefits despite any independent benches. Even if all you get an increase in minimum frame rate where you are CPU bound it seems like it will be worthwhile.

Independent does not mean developers being given money by AMD...independent means Anandtech or similar. Who have not looked at it's performance.

 

[OCGuy]

AMD rep just confirmed no driver today in the stickied thread.

Hello,
The press will receive the driver first to review. About the driver launch, being available for download through our Driver and Support page, it won't be released today; I will keep you updated.

Honestly I think it was never coming out today. There were leaks early Wednesday saying it was being pushed back, but then the AMD PR (Johann?) dude stepped in to say Mantle would be released this month. Marketing threw production under the bus........I think that is a common theme in any industry.

I think everyone would be a little more understanding if say someone who is actually working on the driver would say "Hey, we know everyone is anxious, but we want to be extra sure this goes off as smooth as possible. Realistically we are shooting for February X, and will keep you all updated."

Do we really want to discuss a bunch of reviews on Monday, and then a new driver comes out that completely changes the performance a week later? I doubt the reviewers want to waste a whole weekend doing obsolete benchmarks

 

[bepo]

I love how team green is so sure there are zero benefits despite any independent benches. Even if all you get an increase in minimum frame rate where you are CPU bound it seems like it will be worthwhile.

Not really, time must now be spent to implement 2 API's. If all you expect is a minimal increase for Mantle support you are better off spending the time and resources to optimize for DX and 100% of users. The difference needs to be significant to justify the extra development costs.

 

[caswow]

AMD rep just confirmed no driver today in the stickied thread.




Honestly I think it was never coming out today. There were leaks early Wednesday saying it was being pushed back, but then the AMD PR (Johann?) dude stepped in to say Mantle would be released this month. Marketing threw production under the bus........I think that is a common theme in any industry.

I think everyone would be a little more understanding if say someone who is actually working on the driver would say "Hey, we know everyone is anxious, but we want to be extra sure this goes off as smooth as possible. Realistically we are shooting for February X, and will keep you all updated."

Do we really want to discuss a bunch of reviews on Monday, and then a new driver comes out that completely changes the performance a week later? I doubt the reviewers want to waste a whole weekend doing obsolete benchmarks

trust me it doesnt matter. there are always things that people can complain about.

 

[ThackerSS]

So funny to read some of the negative comments in here. You can easily expect anywhere between a 5-50% improvement.

You guys are the same people that will overclock, and configure settings for hours to get 2-3 more FPS... and yet AMD is giving you more.. much more.. to you completely free (from the consumers perspective) and you complain.

I love the internet.

 

[SPBHM]

I'm interested in seeing how well this would work with a seriously slow CPU, like Kabini, maybe some Q6600.

for most gamers with fast GPUs it looks like Mantle is not such a huge factor (because most have fast CPUs), but maybe for a future game specifically made with Mantle in mind it could also be a good thing.

 

[RampantAndroid]

So funny to read some of the negative comments in here. You can easily expect anywhere between a 5-50% improvement.

You guys are the same people that will overclock, and configure settings for hours to get 2-3 more FPS... and yet AMD is giving you more.. much more.. to you completely free (from the consumers perspective) and you complain.

I love the internet.

People expressed valid concerns about market fragmentation. AMD is giving anyone with an nvidia card...nothing. But hey, who am I to stop your rant?

 

[ThackerSS]

People expressed valid concerns about market fragmentation. AMD is giving anyone with an nvidia card...nothing. But hey, who am I to stop your rant?

It's not fragmenting any sort of a market. It's not mandatory, and AMD will not switch to mantle only.

Fragmentation represents a situation where one is exclusive to something, and this isn't the case. If a developer wants to support it, great. If not, fine too.. but options are never bad.

You won't stop my rant, until you make a valid point. Thanks.

 

[ASM-coder]

You guys are the same people that will overclock, and configure settings for hours to get 2-3 more FPS... and yet AMD is giving you more.. much more.. to you completely free (from the consumers perspective) and you complain.

Wait for it... Someone will come out and say: It's not free! It costs the developer time to code this, and that cost is passed on to you. Of course they don't consider Dice/EA may think that this will make the game more accessible to lower powered(CPU wise) rigs, thus selling more copies of BF4, thus no need to raise the price of the game.

But I agree with you. It's free and much cheaper than some of the other options people choose to gain those coveted extra few FPS.