The AMD Mantle Thread

[Phynaz]

AMD over promise? Nah, they wouldn't do that!

 

[GaiaHunter]

Question:

What happens say in next year when we get more powerful CPUs from Intel and AMD? Will the Mantle improvement shrink?

If the bottleneck is in the GPU side throwing more CPU power won't help much.

A 260X will be slow at 4K regardless of being paired with a A10 7850K or an i7-4930K

So the next step should be to improve how the API work from the GPU side.

 

[Noctifer616]

Couldn't agree more. I will no longer have to keep waiting for an affordable 290 to be available to replace these pair of 280x's I have. I'm going to get a couple 780s in SLI and dump these AMD cards on ebay for profit. I'm done with AMDs marketing bs. Even when these 14.1 driver drop, is gcn 1.0 will have lost performances, not gained anything.

Wow. So, AMD hyped up Mantle and you are sicked and tired of all the PR BS? But you will drop your 280x based on no evidence at all?

AMD hypes up Mantle, you buy into it.

AMD downplays Mantle, claims it's not going to have the performance they expect on GCN 1.0, and you buy into it again by selling your AMD cards.

You are just as bad like all those idiots that saw the "up to 45% more performance" and thought that Mantle was the second coming of Christ.

Be smart, think, wait for independent reviews. Hell, I would even recommend to wait till the final version of Mantle is out before buying AMD cards based on Mantle. The majority of Mantle games aren't going to even come out before the 2H 2014, what exactly is the rush?

Personal attacks are not allowed
-Elfear

 

[GaiaHunter]

It is interesting how the narrative from Mantle went from outrageous performance gains from 1000000 draw calls to now "think of what you can do with a low end CPU". Interesting how that suddenly changed. Low end CPU's is definitely what I had in mind, and everyone had in mind when AMD revealed Mantle at GPU14 for their 290/290X cards. Yeah uh, I don't think so.

Is 290X CF a low end GPU configuration and a 3970X a low end CPU?

Ah, I see, you are focusing on that ultra high end 260X card results...

 

[mindbomb]

i don't like this characterization that mantle only helps with crap cpu's. If you choose appropriate graphics settings, you're inevitably going to have some moments where there are cpu bottlenecks in BF4 with pretty much all setups except those with really low end graphics cards.

I think a lot of what is in Mantle will be present in the next major directx version, so consider this: Mantle gives you the performance of a next gen api but allows you to keep your operating system and current hardware. The next directx will almost certainly require you to buy a new OS and a new GPU.

 

[Venomous]

Wow. So, AMD hyped up Mantle and you are sicked and tired of all the PR BS? But you will drop your 280x based on no evidence at all?

AMD hypes up Mantle, you buy into it.

AMD downplays Mantle, claims it's not going to have the performance they expect on GCN 1.0, and you buy into it again by selling your AMD cards.

You are just as bad like all those idiots that saw the "up to 45% more performance" and thought that Mantle was the second coming of Christ.

Be smart, think, wait for independent reviews. Hell, I would even recommend to wait till the final version of Mantle is out before buying AMD cards based on Mantle. The majority of Mantle games aren't going to even come out before the 2H 2014, what exactly is the rush?

I just want my driver that was promised and give ZFG about a review sites test...

 

[TreVader]

Is 290X CF a low end GPU configuration and a 3970X a low end CPU?

Ah, I see, you are focusing on that ultra high end 260X card results...

Isn't it great that the party line from the nvidia fanboys has changed from "Mantle is vaporware" to "Mantle won't do anything" to "Well it won't help that much for people with (insert system spec)"?


You can have a day off for your thread crapping and fanboy remark.

-Rvenger

 

[Noctifer616]

I just want my driver that was promised and give ZFG about a review sites test...

Why? Besides showing performance number of the beta version of Mantle, what gain is there? There is one game and one demo that supports Mantle (is BF4 even fixed now?).

 

[mindbomb]

Is 290X CF a low end GPU configuration and a 3970X a low end CPU?

Ah, I see, you are focusing on that ultra high end 260X card results...

The 260x would have also benefited if reasonable graphics options were chosen. For some reason, they decided to run the ultra preset (designed for tahiti), instead of the more appropriate options of medium or low.

 

[OCGuy]

Is 290X CF a low end GPU configuration and a 3970X a low end CPU?

Ah, I see, you are focusing on that ultra high end 260X card results...

Are you referring to the 1080p setup?

 

[el etro]

Congrats father. Enjoy your low min fps then, when i frag on with consistently good performance. Smoothness in dx.

a10-7850k performing with Mantle(no res data, IGP graphics:

link: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98939900&postcount=28

A common setup for people that actually play BF4 like myself is 144hz monitor at 1080p low preset and I am certainly 100% bottlenecked by the I5. Even w/ lowest settings + 2x cheapest AA still bottlekneck on I5. Entire clan plays on 120hz or 144hz monitors at 1080 low preset all the I5 (sandy, ivy, haswell) members are bottlenecked regardless of how crazy the overclock is. 1080p low preset is a very common FPS setup for those that want to see campers and play at a decent level.

I don't know about everything in the CPU behavior on BF4, but this other graph should help you:

FX8350 stock plus 7970(stock)




Mantle should benefit more in situations the more CPU bottleneck haves:

A10-7700K CPU + R9 290X GPU

• 1080p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 40.9% improvement
• 1600p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 17.3% improvement

A10-7700K CPU + R7 260X GPU

• 1080p, Ultra Preset, 4xAA: 8.3% improvement
• 1600p, Low Preset: 16.8% improvement

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-launches-mantle-beta-low-end-cpus-not-gpus/#ixzz2s1UxGsmm​

 

[Cloudfire777]

If the bottleneck is in the GPU side throwing more CPU power won't help much.

A 260X will be slow at 4K regardless of being paired with a A10 7850K or an i7-4930K

So the next step should be to improve how the API work from the GPU side.

But if the bottleneck WAS on the CPU side, it may not be the same situation once new improved CPUs come along.

260X on 4K? Are you trying to torture that GPU? I dont think any software can fix that problem

 

[Will Robinson]

Anyone here with a CGN card going to sell it because the free performance increase from Mantle isn't welcome?

I'm guessing ...not many.:thumbsup:

 

[caswow]

why you guys even bother discussing it with certain people?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Once they get it working,(whenever that is), I see Mantle as a good value added feature for AMD cards, but it is hard to see it as much more than that. The lack of backwards compatibility and across hardware compatibility is just a killer weakness. Would I consider Mantle when choosing a gpu? Yes, because I already feel AMD cards generally, except for the mining craze price spike, offer good value. So you get some extra benefit in very specific scenarios, and still get the same performance you always got with Dx.

Would I consider Mantle when choosing a cpu? Definitely not, because I dont want to sacrifice performance in the vast majority of games that do not use mantle.

So basically it comes down to a boost in performance with one brand of gpu, in a very limited number of games at very specific settings that make the game cpu bound. A nice value add-in for AMD gpus, but it is hard for me to see it as much more than that.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Anyone here with a CGN card going to sell it because the free performance increase from Mantle isn't welcome?

I'm guessing ...not many.:thumbsup:

What performance increase? Only one game is supposed to support mantle, and it doesnt even work yet with the newest 2xxx cards, much less my older HD7770.

 

[Cloudfire777]

Anyone here with a CGN card going to sell it because the free performance increase from Mantle isn't welcome?

I'm guessing ...not many.:thumbsup:

Not many are gonna buy GCN cards because of either.
Which believe it or not was AMDs reason to even bring it to life. Not just because DICE wanted a better API. AMD didnt send people down to DICE out of their own generosity. They did it to build and market a system that would create more GPU sales. Why do you think it only works for AMD GPUs (newer ones, hello more sales) when they could easily have made it universal.

Marketing at its best. Or worst. It goes both ways. Good because it did have some improvements, bad because people hyped it up to atleast 20-30-40% across all systems. Not just people, but also AMD. Things like this can backslash if hyped up too much and the product doesnt offer nearly as much.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Once they get it working,(whenever that is), I see Mantle as a good value added feature for AMD cards, but it is hard to see it as much more than that. The lack of backwards compatibility and across hardware compatibility is just a killer weakness. Would I consider Mantle when choosing a gpu? Yes, because I already feel AMD cards generally, except for the mining craze price spike, offer good value. So you get some extra benefit in very specific scenarios, and still get the same performance you always got with Dx.

Would I consider Mantle when choosing a cpu? Definitely not, because I dont want to sacrifice performance in the vast majority of games that do not use mantle.

So basically it comes down to a boost in performance with one brand of gpu, in a very limited number of games at very specific settings that make the game cpu bound. A nice value add-in for AMD gpus, but it is hard for me to see it as much more than that.

I have typed this same response to this backwards compatibility nonsense and no one ever responds. Please tell me why mantle needs to be backwards compatible?

AMD cards are not dropping support for direct x. They are backwards compatible. This is honestly the worst thought out fud in a thread full of fud. The important thing for AMD and Mantle is going to be forward compatibility not backwards.

Mantle will do nothing to change the performance of older titles where AMD has performance parity across price ranges with nvidia already because they support direct x and will continue to. Just stop posting about backwards compatibility. It has no place in this debate because it is a non issue.

 

[Will Robinson]

Cloudfire:

Marketing at its best. Or worst. It goes both ways. Good because it did have some improvements, bad because people hyped it up to atleast 20-30-40% across all systems. Not just people, but also AMD. Things like this can backslash if hyped up too much and the product doesnt offer nearly as much.

I must have missed your posts talking about the "good".

You've been warned repeatedly not to derail discussions here with your incessant personal confrontations, and you refuse to listen. Keep it up and you're going on another, even longer vacation than your last one.
-- stahlhart

 

[Noctifer616]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-drivers-download,25927.html

Driver released to press!

 

[OCGuy]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-drivers-download,25927.html

Driver released to press!

I don't see where it says that...?

 

[Noctifer616]

I don't see where it says that...?

About half an hour ago, AMD sent us the drivers for our own performance evaluations. Though the email didn’t say when we the public release would be, AMD promised to keep us posted.

You have to read.

 

[ASM-coder]

Not many are gonna buy GCN cards because of either.

I plan to buy a GCN upgrade. If the benchmarks show anything consistently
over 10% on a low end CPU, I am sold. BF4 is the only thing that stresses
my "very low end" rig. But that is just one sale.
Maybe 2, if I am really impressed, since I am thinking of building a Kaveri system.

 

[TreVader]

I plan to buy a GCN upgrade. If the benchmarks show anything consistently
over 10% on a low end CPU, I am sold. BF4 is the only thing that stresses
my "very low end" rig. But that is just one sale.
Maybe 2, if I am really impressed, since I am thinking of building a Kaveri system.

Me too! I just put an order in for an i3/R9 270 setup!

 

[Cloudfire777]

I plan to buy a GCN upgrade. If the benchmarks show anything consistently
over 10% on a low end CPU, I am sold. BF4 is the only thing that stresses
my "very low end" rig. But that is just one sale.
Maybe 2, if I am really impressed, since I am thinking of building a Kaveri system.

I should have specified high end systems. Mantle is undoubtly a great upgrade for the low end stuff and will be great for APUs. Im still interested at seeing some i5s and i3 CPUs tested with Mantle to see if it generally favour APUs or if its across all CPUs.

I do however wonder why people buy $500+ GPUs but pair it up with $100 CPUs though... A little balance would be nice