It is more likely to be 20mn and check Google and all most all rumors are saying Nvidia is developing 20mn cards.
Listen, lets not make this like a cheerleading football game. That is not what i was doing. I'm simply stating a fact. To me, as of this moment, Mantle isn't any better than the deceased "Stream" API AMD announced with bells on way back when. AMD tends to falter at the finish line or not follow through.
Stream
Bullet
Coolers
Mantle?
not saying Nvidia doesn't make it's own mistakes. Not at all.
It is what it is.
AMD would have debuted the cards at higher prices if that were the case, they did know what Mantle is bring to the table.
Rory Read is after a much bigger fish - breaking the back of Nvidia's consumer GPU business on a cost performance rack.
AMD is currently a cost/performance leader across the AIB market even after Nvidia's initial price reductions, what margins will be left if Nvidia has to contend with a further 25-35% Mantle induced cost/performance deficit?
What happens when Kaveri is released able to take advantage of the full HSA/hUMA APU console code? Kaveri + Mantle will functionally duplicate the console hardware.
What happens to prices after Nvidia is broken on the price/performance rack is a different matter.
Its amazing the confidence and such in a product that havent been demoed, no performance estimates. And only coming to a handfuld of games the next couple of years.
Sofar the only companies that likes Mantle is the ones AMD pays. And thats not a surprise due to the minority segment.
Maybe people should wait to we actually see performance. Because the hype about it is at a terrible level that can only go wrong. Consoles didnt have anything to do with Mantle as first predicted for example.
We'll see; but you so sure its only companies AMD's pays? I've love to see the proof on this; we've gotten leaks of some of the big boys that have signed on....better yet; we'll know this week....
We are going to have some demos of it; handful of games? well 15 games with FB3 - one of the biggest games next year; Thief 4; along with true audio in that game.
Full RTS game engine for stardock... that's two engines; Star Cit will use it; which means either Chris is baking it into the game; or its getting baked in by Crytek.....*most likely both* Activition is using it; I can say other big companies will be there also. We'll see just how much of a game changer this is....specially with BF4 mantle patch supposed to be coming sooner than thought also....
We'll see; but you so sure its only companies AMD's pays? I've love to see the proof on this; we've gotten leaks of some of the big boys that have signed on....better yet; we'll know this week....
We are going to have some demos of it; handful of games? well 15 games with FB3 - one of the biggest games next year; Thief 4; along with true audio in that game.
Full RTS game engine for stardock... that's two engines; Star Cit will use it; which means either Chris is baking it into the game; or its getting baked in by Crytek.....*most likely both* Activition is using it; I can say other big companies will be there also. We'll see just how much of a game changer this is....specially with BF4 mantle patch supposed to be coming sooner than thought also....
Sofar AMD payed all the titles we see. No developer did it for their own money.
of course no dev are stupid investing on a company which dont even have GPU or CPU market majority or share unless the company it self pay them to use.Its amazing the confidence and such in a product that havent been demoed, no performance estimates. And only coming to a handfuld of games the next couple of years.
Sofar the only companies that likes Mantle is the ones AMD pays. And thats not a surprise due to the minority segment.
Maybe people should wait to we actually see performance. Because the hype about it is at a terrible level that can only go wrong. Consoles didnt have anything to do with Mantle as first predicted for example.
of course no dev are stupid investing on a company which dont even have GPU or CPU market majority or share unless the company it self pay them to use.
i haven't seen a source for that. Do you have one?
They're supposed to demo BF4 using Mantle. It's only a few more days. Judging by what the devs and AMD are saying, it should be a win for AMD, a win for the developers, and a win for gamers. What's the reason not to be hopeful?
I haven't either. Would appreciate a source and be assured I'm not just listening to someone's "feeling" on this.i haven't seen a source for that. Do you have one?
Agree but one point more is that IMO that Mantle will give full performance over there APU and of course they try gain there dead shares in CPU market and most of here anandtech member have intel processor.Still you have to face the "green" problem, since mantle runs on AMD only, you still have to fully support directx with good quality code. And then you've got Microsoft who is not going to allow mantle on xbox because it will challenge directx's dominance. So the entire cost reduction argument might go to waste: supporting two different api's(dx + mantle) is not going to be cheaper than supporting one api(dx only).
Even if mantle will bring a miraculous 15-20% performance gain across the board, no dev is going to adopt it(unless you pay them) because it increases development costs/hell. I think at the end of the day, devs will just say: "Not another 3d api. You've already got dx and opengl. The fact that it's vendor specific(amd only), makes it pointless".
Just my humble opinion. Time will tell.
Still you have to face the "green" problem, since mantle runs on AMD only, you still have to fully support directx with good quality code. And then you've got Microsoft who is not going to allow mantle on xbox because it will challenge directx's dominance. So the entire cost reduction argument might go to waste: supporting two different api's(dx + mantle) is not going to be cheaper than supporting one api(dx only).
Even if mantle will bring a miraculous 15-20% performance gain across the board, no dev is going to adopt it(unless you pay them) because it increases development costs/hell. I think at the end of the day, devs will just say: "Not another 3d api. You've already got dx and opengl. The fact that it's vendor specific(amd only), makes it pointless".
Just my humble opinion. Time will tell.
Thief is another example of a gaming evolved, aka AMD payed. Star Citizen supports everything that pays it money, including PhysX. But I still consider that title vapourware until it gets closer. Right now it simply slides on its timeline. Is Activision using it? The only comment they had sofar was about a wrapper on twitter.
So lets wait and see honestly.
And because an engine supports it, doesnt mean it will be ingame. Just like PhysX.
The biggest problem for developers, is to justify to code a second renderpath for a segment that is below 10% marketshare, when AMD doesnt cover the cost. Sofar AMD payed all the titles we see. No developer did it for their own money.
I'm going to ask you one more time where are you getting this <10% from?
ShintaiDK, you really need to start posting sources for your comments. Even I am thinking you are just making this stuff up and most people find it easier to call BS than to look it up for themselves.
Microsoft doesn't have to allow or not mantle in the xbone.
Mantle can be included in the game engine - not that it will have to be.
Mantle just has to be similar to the xbone low level constructs and since they both target the same hardware architecture it shouldn't be to hard.
You cant run a driver without MS permission. So you cant run Mantle in any way on Xbox One without MS giving the ok. And it would then have to be a system update to enable it.