I wasn't aware that nvidia paid Carmack or Epic. It's also quite funny that Carmack is in nvidia's pocket, but he's working for oculus rift. So is nvidia paying Carmack for Occulus Rift development? I don't think so.
In any case, if nvidia is paying epic:
[citation required]
D3D still competes with OGL. If MS was so stupid, wouldn't OGL have taken over?
And I don't have as fond of memories of 2+ API games. I recall a lot of bugs and crashes. I recall switching back and forth between API's depending on the game due to poor support for one or the other. Or even switching based on patch.
Where's your citation that AMD is paying anyone to use Mantle. If you are going to point to EA/Dice, the quote was AMD is paying EA/Dice for the marketing rights to BF4. Nowhere has it said that AMD is paying them to use Mantle. All of the devs have said they are using Mantle because of what it offers them in terms of performance and programmability.
I don't know what to say though if you can't grasp the fact there's a business deal here and both sides are obligated to each other and EA/Dice can't simply decide they aren't going to honor their commitments.
Market share is irrelevant. AMD payed them a lot of money and they have an obligation. They can't simply decide it's not important enough.
Funny you bring that up. You know, i'm GLAD you mention that. Because in December I vividly remember a post that you made, stating that DICE had a contractual obligation to release Mantle BF4 in December based on the payment for 8 million dollars.. You stated that DICE had a contractual obligation to do it based on the 8 million dollar sum that they received.
This was obviously before news of Mantle BF4 being delayed came about. Hold on, let me find that post.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35854675&highlight=#post35854675
This is what you said in December.
And then you said this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35854532&highlight=#post35854532
You were referring to BF4 mantle being released on time, in December, with this statement. Before the delay was announced. And yeah. AMD "paid" (sic) them a lot of money and DICE does have an obligation. There. We agree! This is what you posted in December. I won't even point anything more obvious out. Must be another mistake you made. It's cool. I'm forgetful too, it happens. It's easy to forget that DICE paid 8 million for BF4 and Mantle. And like I said I don't have a problem with that if it helps Mantle adoption. AMD paid square enix as well for AMD GE rights. Nvidia paid for crysis 1 way back in the day. That's par for course, I don't have a problem with it. AMD paying devs to get Mantle out there helps adoption. You shouldn't have a problem with this either. Par for the course in the graphics industry.
Like you said. AMD "payed" DICE a lot of money and they have an obligation. That obligation has a January release now though!
So u want to say DICE is spending there extra money on just 7 to 9% max user to use Mantle how that is a logic.I don't see any evidence there of AMD paying DICE 8million or any other developer to use Mantle.
So I will continue with my baseless claims that Sweeny and Carmack are only hostile towards mantle cause they are in nVidia's pocket.
Funny you bring that up. You know, i'm GLAD you mention that. Because in December I vividly remember a post that you made, stating that DICE had a contractual obligation to release Mantle BF4 in December based on the payment for 8 million dollars.. You stated that DICE had a contractual obligation to do it based on the 8 million dollar sum that they received.
This was obviously before news of Mantle BF4 being delayed came about. Hold on, let me find that post.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35854675&highlight=#post35854675
This is what you said in December.
And then you said this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35854532&highlight=#post35854532
You were referring to BF4 mantle being released on time, in December, with this statement. Before the delay was announced. And yeah. AMD "paid" (sic) them a lot of money and DICE does have an obligation. There. We agree! This is what you posted in December. I won't even point anything more obvious out. Must be another mistake you made. It's cool. I'm forgetful too, it happens. It's easy to forget that DICE paid 8 million for BF4 and Mantle. And like I said I don't have a problem with that if it helps Mantle adoption. AMD paid square enix as well for AMD GE rights. Nvidia paid for crysis 1 way back in the day. That's par for course, I don't have a problem with it. AMD paying devs to get Mantle out there helps adoption. You shouldn't have a problem with this either. Par for the course in the graphics industry.
Like you said. AMD "payed" DICE a lot of money and they have an obligation. That obligation has a January release now though!
I think google has the answer.
https://www.google.com/search?q=amd...4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
News of nvidia paying epic:
[none found]
Keep in mind that i'm not saying this is a bad thing. They can pay all the money they want for devs to use Mantle, I don't consider it a bad thing. So it's not bad that AMD paid DICE 8 million for BF4 and Mantle. And you shouldn't consider it a bad thing either. Obviously AMD has to encourage adoption of Mantle somehow. More Mantle adoption = more GPUs sold. At least that's what i'm thinking. Right? How's that a bad thing? Not sure why you seem offended by that.
Looks like some evidence to me. I like where you are going with this fact finding. It is VERY illuminating for all of us.
Fudzilla said:Multiple sources have told us that AMD spent between $5 and $8 million to secure the Battlefield 4 deal.
The part of the deal was to make Battlefield 4 as a part of AMD exclusive bundle, only available to select AMD partners, as well as to make sure that showcases of the game are done on AMD hardware.
This is a big commitment for EA, AMD and Dice, but all sides will benefit from it. AMD will also gave the exclusive right to Dice to play with Mantle, a new AMD API that is set to become a third player in gaming APIs next to OpenGL and DirectX.
Dice has promised to bring a Mantle update to BF4 in December 2013 and we will have to wait and see if this brings any performance increase on the existing game. Mantle is supposed to talk to "metal" directly on the transistor level, potentially making everything faster and delivering some new effects that are outside DirectX 11.2 specification.
The deal that is said to be worth between $5 million and $8 million will give AMD a new "face" in the eyes of gamers and with very good Hawaii R9 and R7 cards to launch just in time for the game, this has a chance to become quite successful PR stunt for AMD.
The question if you can really make that money on the Battlefield 4 deal and justify and a sizable investment remains to be seen, but new way of doing marketing and PR for AMD is a refreshing and brings about some much needed change.
People were saying it was going to be delayed simply because Mantle's market share is less than DX and therefore not a priority. I was simply saying that would not be an acceptable reason to delay Mantle.
AMD payed them a lot of money and they have an obligation. They can't simply decide it's not important enough.
This is not new. Doesn't matter.
We've seen it dozens of times. Now we've seen it another time.
AFAIK this was the first public statement about it.
Note that nowhere does it say AMD payed $5m to $8m to get them to use Mantle. It actually states that Mantle was on top of the money as part of the deal to Dice. R.I.F.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...partner-to-bring-unreal-engine-4-to-tegra-k1/
I'm sure no money changed hands here.
Why would you think that?
Why would you just "toss out" this Nvidia payoff tidbit? Does this exhonerate AMD somehow? Does it condemn Nvidia somehow?
Please be very clear about why you opted to show this to us. Thanks.
What you described is not getting better with an additional API. If DX is so hard to fix and fine tune, adding Mantle only takes away more resources, making DX worse. It's not like we can ignore DX because Mantle exists. It is only great for those with GCN AMD cards.Most games are ported from console API's. If, as it should, Mantle makes those ports easier then we should end up with less bugs. Also, most bugs are difficult to fix because it requires the Devs and the hardware vendors to adapt the game and the hardware to DX, and according to the devs DX is a black box they can't see inside of.
It's not like there's only one API now and all of a sudden it's going to be shattered into heaps of API's that are going to ruin gaming for the majority that don't use the specific hardware for all of these different API's. We've already got multiple API's. Mantle just makes the API's that the consoles use more similar to what can be used on PC.
EA doesn't develop drivers. AMD and nvidia develop drivers. So i'm not sure what's up with your statement that EA has driver issues.
Asymetric crossfire will likely be bunk, because uneven performing GPUs results in microstutter. Prior APUs with assymetric crossfire had microstutter so horrible that it was worse than simply using the APU alone - There is no way around this. Like I said. Uneven performing graphics solutions can't have even frame times. But I do look forward to Tomshardware and PCPer doing frametime testing on Assymetric crossfire. Should be an interesting fact finding experience. I'm not sure if AMD will even allow that on launch reviews? Anyone have a guess?
Mantle grilling steaks does sound intriguing though.
Excellent - so you have no issue with AMD paying DICE 8 million dollars to implement Mantle in BF4. Am I understanding you correctly? I don't have an issue with it either.
Not sure why anyone would have an issue with it. There's no such thing as charity work for two months of development time. But there is $$. Nothing wrong with that. It helps AMD get Mantle adopted and helps them sell GPUs. At least that's what i'm thinking.
Good discussion VD. Not sure why some are bothered by this, it's really not a big deal that AMD paid DICE so exorbitantly. So now that you acknowledge that Mantle was paid for by AMD (in BF4 anyway), we can move forward with the Mantle discussion instead of being stuck on this point.
To illustrate that they both do it so you can all get off your high horses. Both companies pay developers and developers gladly accept the sponsorships.
Even if amd did pay all these devs to use mantle it is the nature of the business. Also who cares if they paid them and it works and the devs truly do love it? Kudos to amd for getting something right.
Can we get back on topic or shall we have another 50 pages devoted to the financial transactions of both companies?
That's not what he said at all.Then maybe you should explain this to 3DVagabond. Nobody is on a high horse for the reasons you believe. It's because it's being denied. Difference.
But you said earlier:
I dunno bro. Sounds like these two statements don't jive. :hmm: AMD paid them a lot of money to use Mantle. That's the obvious implication here. Let's analyze this statement. "they have an obligation" - They have an obligation for what? They have an obligation to release BF4 Mantle. Right? That's what you stated. Only if AMD didn't pay DICE for mantle, there's no obligation. What's the obligation otherwise? You seem to have implied BF4 Mantle. I dunno man.
BTW. I could care less if nvidia pays developers to use their features. All I care about is nvidia releasing great products that I want to buy. If nvidia wants to blow their load paying for call of duty or battlefield I really don't give a crap - as long as they have the financial strength to continue creating great products, that's all I care about. Apparently, nvidia has a lot of financial strength to continue giving us great products. Anyway, Nvidia could pay Bethesda 11 million tomorrow. Would I care? Absolutely not. Would I be offended? Nah. Don't care. Not one bit. I don't understand why you're offended that AMD paid DICE to use Mantle. It's really not a big deal - it helps AMD sell GPUs. Unfortunately there is no public record of nvidia paying epic anything, whereas google seems to find 27,000 results of "AMD" "BF4" "DICE" "Mantle" and "8 million". Probably just a coincidence though that thousands of news agencies reported AMD paying DICE 8 million for Mantle. Like I said though. I have no issues with AMD doing that. I'm still confused as to why you're offended that AMD paid DICE to use Mantle in BF4. This helps AMD sells GPUs. Right?