The AMD Mantle Thread

[Slomo4shO]

That was posted today: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065224040922298/

I doubt they will conjointly release mantle support with a patch that aims to to resolve the stability issues of BF4.

 

[krumme]

It most likely get Mantle later after several months have passed with development time. The devs are not letting another API get in the way of DX. DX will be prioritized because it runs on a crapload more systems than Mantle will. And for game companies to meet deadlines, get the cashflow running, calm the investors, Mantle will almost always be post poned after the game is up and running. Unless someone is willing to pay for it. In time Mantle might get bigger user base, but that will be a very difficult road and will cost a lot of money for the manpower. Especially if they are aiming for a simultaniously release with DX and Mantle.

When Microsoft release next update on DX with similar improvements, Mantle will fall dead. Microsoft have way too much power and influence on the game development today. They are not gonna just sit and let a new API take over either.

And if Mantle is enabled on the games several months after release, whats the point with Mantle? You have to be a real AMD fanboy to have such self control that you wont play the awesome game that gets a ton of praise in the media. Its there ready to be played. All you need to do is install it and play with DX...

Ramblings or some kind of self therapy. Or explaining mantle dangers to aliens in 20 sec? What is your message? That Mantle might get a bigger user base and then drop dead with dx 12 and that you can just play with dx? Wtf??? Lol. Relax

Infraction issued for personal attack.
-- stahlhart

 

[Despoiler]

When Microsoft release next update on DX with similar improvements, Mantle will fall dead. Microsoft have way too much power and influence on the game development today. They are not gonna just sit and let a new API take over either.

Really? MS has been playing copycat catch-up for decades now across a lot of their product lines. They are lazy and are in desperate need of vision on top of a corporate culture change. It could happen now that Ballmer is gone, but I have little hope.

 

[blackened23]

Really? MS has been playing copycat catch-up for decades now across a lot of their product lines. They are lazy and are in desperate need of vision on top of a corporate culture change. It could happen now that Ballmer is gone, but I have little hope.

Microsoft's Q2: record $24.52 billion revenue and 3.9 million Xbox One sales

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/23/5338162/microsoft-q2-2014-financial-earnings

Microsoft has published its Q2 2014 earnings report, and the company has made $6.56 billion in net income on $24.52 billion in revenue. Revenue has increased by 14 percent from the same period last year, and net income increased by 2.8 percent.

That sure sounds like a company in dire need of a culture change. Anyway, in GPU limited situations there have been several hints that the gains will be around 10-15% for Mantle use in BF4. (This was mentioned by an AMD rep to computerbase.de, FWIW) I certainly don't see that as game-changing, that would amount to a rough 5-6 fps gain at WQHD resolution assuming the baseline framerate is around 60. (2560x1440) That would not be an amazing gain.

That is speculation based on what an AMD rep told computerbase, but the bottom line is we need an actual BF4 Mantle product for reviewers to test, and we don't have that yet. So if those are the representative gains for GPU limited situations with Mantle? Then I don't buy into the theory that DX is going to be "doomed" as has been mentioned by a few folks - it isn't like MS is going to sit back and let DirectX fall to the wayside. DX will be just fine, and it will evolve over time just like OGL has.

From what I recall, MS is in fact making some adjustments to the abstraction layer for a future version of DX. OpenGL already allows more direct GPU communication similar to Mantle, as well.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

It most likely get Mantle later after several months have passed with development time. The devs are not letting another API get in the way of DX. DX will be prioritized because it runs on a crapload more systems than Mantle will. And for game companies to meet deadlines, get the cashflow running, calm the investors, Mantle will almost always be post poned after the game is up and running. Unless someone is willing to pay for it. In time Mantle might get bigger user base, but that will be a very difficult road and will cost a lot of money for the manpower. Especially if they are aiming for a simultaniously release with DX and Mantle.

When Microsoft release next update on DX with similar improvements, Mantle will fall dead. Microsoft have way too much power and influence on the game development today. They are not gonna just sit and let a new API take over either.

And if Mantle is enabled on the games several months after release, whats the point with Mantle? You have to be a real AMD fanboy to have such self control that you wont play the awesome game that gets a ton of praise in the media. Its there ready to be played. All you need to do is install it and play with DX...

I think you are completely ignoring a lot of important facts in this post. Where had it been said that amd GPUs are dropping support for dx ? I'm still playing direct x games just fine on my 7970. Should I not be?

Also what about the millions of apu's and laptops with gcn parts that are going to be out there that now suddenly have the ability to run games a acceptable frame rates? They won't care to wait for the mantle version because the game was unplayable for them previously.

Trust me the devs want that money coming from the expanded audiences mantle can bring them on the low end of the hardware spectrum.

I don't think any amount of tweaking to direct x can bring enough optimization to get low end parts game capable like an architecture specific api from the vendor can.

 

[3DVagabond]

This was posted today at Rage3D forums by an AMD employee when asked if Mantle was going to drop tomorrow.

Sorry I'm not a member there so I can't quote it. Anyway, he's still saying before Feb. Here's keeping our fingers crossed.

 

[Despoiler]

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/23/5338162/microsoft-q2-2014-financial-earnings

That sure sounds like a company in dire need of a culture change. Anyway, in GPU limited situations there have been several hints that the gains will be around 10-15% for Mantle use in BF4. (This was mentioned by an AMD rep to computerbase.de, FWIW) I certainly don't see that as game-changing, that would amount to a rough 5-6 fps gain at WQHD resolution assuming the baseline framerate is around 60. (2560x1440) That would not be an amazing gain.

That is speculation based on what an AMD rep told computerbase, but the bottom line is we need an actual BF4 Mantle product for reviewers to test, and we don't have that yet. So if those are the representative gains for GPU limited situations with Mantle? Then I don't buy into the theory that DX is going to be "doomed" as has been mentioned by a few folks - it isn't like MS is going to sit back and let DirectX fall to the wayside. DX will be just fine, and it will evolve over time just like OGL has.

From what I recall, MS is in fact making some adjustments to the abstraction layer for a future version of DX. OpenGL already allows more direct GPU communication similar to Mantle, as well.

Allow me to educate you.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...ployee_evaluation_system_and_microsoft_s.html

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer

http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-app...rganization-wont-work-without-culture-change/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2012/aug/13/microsoft-human-resources-culture

Warning issued for thread crapping.
-- stahlhart

 

[ASM-coder]

Anyway, he's still saying before Feb. Here's keeping our fingers crossed.

And on his Twitter page, he says "no change" to the end of Jan expectation.

https://twitter.com/cavemanjim/status/427933049075302400

 

[Arkadrel]

And on his Twitter page, he says "no change" to the end of Jan expectation.

https://twitter.com/cavemanjim/status/427933049075302400

So as far as that guy knows its gonna be out within the next 3 days?
*crosses fingers*

 

[ASM-coder]

So if you read the headline of this story from today, and the first paragraph,
it seems definitive. BF4 Mantle patch delayed again. But... read on.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...-again-as-battlefield-4-struggles-to-fix-bugs

 

[3DVagabond]

So if you read the headline of this story from today, and the first paragraph,
it seems definitive. BF4 Mantle patch delayed again. But... read on.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...-again-as-battlefield-4-struggles-to-fix-bugs

Another writer with reading comprehension issues. He's confusing the "up to 45% gain in BF4" to the "up to 300% gain" in the Oxide demo, and then using the 45% gain to discredit the latter. Two different scenarios altogether.

 

[3DVagabond]

Johan says the delay rumors are false, too. User Sirroman over at S/A posted this

 

[Tmf]

Johan says the delay rumors are false, too. User Sirroman over at S/A posted this

That's good news, I still have high hopes for something this week.

 

[Pottuvoi]

And on his Twitter page, he says "no change" to the end of Jan expectation.

https://twitter.com/cavemanjim/status/427933049075302400

Really hope this means the release is in Jan.
Certainly would allow more interesting comparisons etc.

Mantle seems to have some interesting advantages outside the cost of draw calls.

 

[3DVagabond]

Really hope this means the release is in Jan.
Certainly would allow more interesting comparisons etc.

Mantle seems to have some interesting advantages outside the cost of draw calls.

It depends on what optimizations Dice was able to incorporate. With all of the other issues in BF4, I'm hoping they had time to do Mantle right.

 

[ASM-coder]

A leaked beta driver would be the first sign of Mantle.

Ok, so now there is an officially leaked beta driver(somewhat of an oxymoron, I know.)

 

[OCGuy]

Ok, so now there is an officially leaked beta driver(somewhat of an oxymoron, I know.)

No....and the worst "tech" site around is actually claiming it is the 14.1 beta, when in fact that Toshiba file was from early December. The file has been accessed and posted:


http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=386049

;----------1312111848-13.35-131210a-165165E-Toshiba.5
; AMD display information file
;
; Installation INF for the AMD display driver.
; Copyright(C) AMD 2007-2013
;-----------------------------------------------
; PX - PX Proxy mode
; PR - PX Proxy Ready

[Version]
Signature="$Windows NT$"
Provider=%ATI%
ClassGUID={4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}
Class=Display
DriverVer=12/10/2013, 13.350.0.0000

Original supported models :
AMD6664.1 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6664.2 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6665.1 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6665.2 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6665.3 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6665.4 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6665.5 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6665.6 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6665.7 = "AMD Radeon R5 M200 Series"
AMD6822.1 = "AMD Radeon E8860"
AMD6822.2 = "AMD Radeon E8860"
AMD6823.1 = "AMD Radeon HD 8800M Series"
AMD6823.2 = "AMD Radeon HD 8800M Series"
AMD6823.3 = "AMD Radeon HD 8800M Series"
AMD6823.4 = "AMD Radeon HD 8800M Series"
AMD6823.5 = "AMD Radeon HD 8800M Series"
AMD6823.6 = "AMD Radeon HD 8800M Series"
AMD682A.1 = "VENUS PRO MCM (682A)"
AMD682A.2 = "VENUS PRO MCM (682A)"
AMD6900.1 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.2 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.3 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.4 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.5 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.6 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.7 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.8 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.9 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.10 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.11 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.12 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.13 = "AMD Radeon Series"
AMD6900.14 = "AMD Radeon Series"

The date of this driver is older...

 

[Slomo4shO]

that Toshiba file was from early December.

Considering that BF4 was initially expected to have mantle support in mid-December...

Do you recall this disclaimer from the Kaveri review?

Another disclaimer is that AMD recommends testing dual graphics solutions with their 13.350 driver build, which due out in February.

Seems AMD has been sitting on this patch for over a month and half waiting for DICE to get their act together :whiste:

Remember this from the Kaveri launch?

 

[OCGuy]

Seems AMD has been sitting on this patch for over a month and half waiting for DICE to get their act together :whiste:

So they knew back then it would be February but have been saying January?

 

[Stuka87]

So they knew back then it would be February but have been saying January?

No, they said it would be quarter one. This is according to their slides earlier this month. They said January when it did not make it in December because Dice was too busy trying to make BF4 actually playable.

 

[MutantGith]

I don't mean to belabor the obvious, but who really cares when the drivers come out, if the first and only existing piece of software that might access those drivers isn't released yet?

I mean, I can have the most amazing Glide hardware drivers on the planet installed on my system (hypothetically), but all of the DX11 games that I play won't give two figs, unless of course something about that install causes problems with my actual video card driver.

Though I haven't 100% heard it confirmed directly from anyone, it seems clear that Mantle accessing code isn't getting released until BF4 drops. Having the drivers floating around months before that wouldn't have really done anyone any good, and delaying in fact gave everyone at AMD a chance to do more QA on the driver package. You know, make sure that it doesn't conflict with memory managers, cripple DirectDraw performance, cause issues in multi-monitor set ups...etc, that sometimes creep in as unintended side effects.

 

[Slomo4shO]

So they knew back then it would be February but have been saying January?

Q1 was the only timeline officially given by AMD earlier in January. Their initial planned launch of Mantel was December but, if you may recall, DICE has an agreement to be the first title with Mantel support and they seem to be piggybacking on the release of the BF4 patch or vice versa...

 

[OCGuy]

Q1 was the only timeline officially given by AMD earlier in January. Their initial planned launch of Mantel was December but, if you may recall, DICE has an agreement to be the first title with Mantel support and they seem to be piggybacking on the release of the BF4 patch or vice versa...

So all the twitter statements, etc are to be ignored?

 

[Paul98]

Saying it isn't delayed, and that driver leak looks like it will be coming soon. Maybe we will see both BF4 and star swarm this week

 

[Slomo4shO]

So all the twitter statements, etc are to be ignored?

In what sense? If DICE deliverers a patch supporting mantle by the end of this month, the the drivers would also come before the end of the month.