The AMD Mantle Thread

[cmdrdredd]

Looks like a lighting issue but everything is being rendered.

According to http://www.slideshare.net/DICEStudio/mantle-for-developers slides 37 and 38, all those games will have Mantle.

Those are AMD slides with no developer comment. Developers of some of these titles have not confirmed.

 

[Shivansps]

What about the reduced quality rumors im hearing about? ive seem these screens

DX

Mantle

DX

Mantle

DX

Mantle

BTW, Those ARE "console optimizations" right there.

 

[ASM-coder]

Those are AMD slides with no developer comment. Developers of some of these titles have not confirmed.

How do you figure they are AMD slides?
Johan gave the presentation, and they are labeled Frostbite.
I see no AMD logo.

Edit: Oh wait, I see the AMD logo, behind the grassy knoll.

 

[cmdrdredd]

What about the reduced quality rumors im hearing about? ive seem these screens

I saw those just a few minutes ago and it was reported on the last page of this thread that the developer has acknowleged this as a bug and it will be fixed. We will have to see if it changes performance at all when it gets fixed.

 

[desprado]

Those are AMD slides with no developer comment. Developers of some of these titles have not confirmed.

Bro u are wrong here.Johan said clearly that upcoming 15 games will support mantle and AMD their around 20 upcoming overall that will support mantle but it does not mean that they are coming soon so it can take 2016 to 2019.

 

[cmdrdredd]

How do you figure they are AMD slides?
Johan gave the presentation, and they are labeled Frostbite.
I see no AMD logo.

It was at AMD's event back in November.

Bro u are wrong here.Johan said clearly that upcoming 15 games will support mantle and AMD their around 20 upcoming overall that will support mantle but it does not mean that they are coming soon so it can take 2016 to 2019.

He can say anything he wants. Until the developer of the games actually come out and confirm it, his word means nothing.

 

[bwat47]

What about the reduced quality rumors im hearing about? ive seem these screens

DX

Mantle

DX

Mantle

DX

Mantle

BTW, Those ARE "console optimizations" right there.

BF4's rendering architect already responded to this. The increased 'fog' is a bug, it will be fixed, and the bug does not impact performance (The stuff 'behind' the fog is still being rendered):

https://twitter.com/repi/status/429985248995467265

And if you look at the flood zone screenshots from the battlelog thread linked in the twitter post, the mantle renderer actually seems to have INCREASED lod and shadow rendering distance.

So yes those rumors are just that, 'rumors'

 

[blackened23]

How do you figure they are AMD slides?
Johan gave the presentation, and they are labeled Frostbite.
I see no AMD logo.

It was a co-presentation with AMD at GPU14. AMD introduced him as the developer of the FB3 engine. Then, Johan took over mostly to talk about FB3 and BF4. It was at GPU14 presumably with him making a paid appearance. They say money talks, 8 million talks. Or maybe he was just really interested and paid for his trip to Hawaii out of pocket. I don't know, just conjecture at this point, but the main point here is that it was a co-presentation with AMD at GPU14.

They basically threw up a slide of all FB3 games. Problem - not all of them will use Mantle, as NFS: Rivals is a point in case of. I'm sure some of them will, but developers have not confirmed anything as of yet, aside from PvZ Zombie Warfare. Perhaps you can post on the Bioware forum and see if you can get a developer to comment on that. On Dragon Age: Inquisition. Since whether it is using Mantle or not has not been confirmed by the developers.

 

[Abwx]

How do you figure they are AMD slides?
Johan gave the presentation, and they are labeled Frostbite.
I see no AMD logo.

And even if thoses slides where from AMD they wouldnt
randomly use a name if not officialy allowed , actualy the
post you re answering to only "argument" is that it is from AMD,
quite a poor stance that show that such a post is first
motivated by deffamation if AMD name is allegedly a reason
to brand the slide as meaningless..

 

[ASM-coder]

I saw those just a few minutes ago and it was reported on the last page of this thread that the developer has acknowleged this as a bug and it will be fixed. We will have to see if it changes performance at all when it gets fixed.

Yes, Johan said it was their bug, but you left out the part where he says
it doesn't affect performance.
"it is a bug on our side, we'll fix it, doesn't affect performance"
https://twitter.com/repi/status/429985248995467265

 

[cmdrdredd]

And even if thoses slides where from AMD they wouldnt
randomly use a name if not officialy allowed , actualy the
post you re answering to only "argument" is that it is from AMD,
quite a poor stance that show that such a post is first
motivated by deffamation if AMD name is allegedly a reason
to brand the slide as meaningless..

The whole point is, and I find it hilarious you guys can't even grasp something so simple, neither AMD nor DICE are making all these games. He can sit there and say "our engine will work with it and there are these games using our engine" but that doesn't mean that the actual developer who is not DICE will take the time to put it in their game. When it comes to crunch time, EA will rip Mantle out to ship a game before devoting lots of man hours and money on it unless there is some financial motivation for them. They want to sell games, not GPUs.

Yes, Johan said it was their bug, but you left out the part where he says
it doesn't affect performance.
"it is a bug on our side, we'll fix it, doesn't affect performance"
https://twitter.com/repi/status/429985248995467265

We have to see is what I said. You take everything at face value so easily.

 

[frozentundra123456]

If all you play is the couple games using it, sure.

Exactly. Mantle is still a niche (gcn cards), within a niche(very limited number of games), within a niche( minimal improvement except in CPU limited scenarios). If one is building a thousand dollar gaming rig, it is absurd to not get a powerful CPU that can perform well in all situations.

If one has a slow CPU, and the *only* demanding game he plays is BF4, then you will get a boost, but if you want to play other CPU demanding games, you will not be able to delay an upgrade because of mantle.

 

[bwat47]

The whole point is, and I find it hilarious you guys can't even grasp something so simple, neither AMD nor DICE are making all these games. He can sit there and say "our engine will work with it and there are these games using our engine" but that doesn't mean that the actual developer who is not DICE will take the time to put it in their game.



We have to see is what I said. You take everything at face value so easily.

Take a look at these two shots:

Dx11.1 : http://gyazo.com/a521c49fa35ccc205f2126774b5060dd [gyazo.com]

Mantle: http://gyazo.com/173e96bf183f90fbb57f483dc2900bc2 [gyazo.com]

There is increased fog (the bug), but there's also significantly increased shadow rendering distance. The mantle screenshot is rendering shadows at a distance that aren't even present at all in the dx11 screenshot. And its also quite clear that the stuff obscured by the fog is still being rendered if you look closely. Its a cosmetic bug, and the mantle renderer isn't relying on "tricks" for better performance.

 

[Zstream]

Exactly. Mantle is still a niche (gcn cards), within a niche(very limited number of games), within a niche( minimal improvement except in CPU limited scenarios). If one is building a thousand dollar gaming rig, it is absurd to not get a powerful CPU that can perform well in all situations.

If one has a slow CPU, and the *only* demanding game he plays is BF4, then you will get a boost, but if you want to play other CPU demanding games, you will not be able to delay an upgrade because of mantle.

And how much does one spend on a processor? I guarantee you that mantle will help quite a few people, more than you think. In fact, I'm probably a little average with my specs and a majority of gamers have similar build.

I5 2400 paired with a AMD 270. The cpu cost around $200 along with a $200 video card.

 

[OCGuy]

A quick look at the BF4 forums shows why they weren't ready to release yet. It is flooded with Mantle issues. I can't say I have them myself, as I am just now downloading the driver to give it a spin.


http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/view/2955065670116713685/

 

[bwat47]

A quick look at the BF4 forums shows why they weren't ready to release yet. It is flooded with Mantle issues. I can't say I have them myself, as I am just now downloading the driver to give it a spin.


http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/view/2955065670116713685/

This is the very first public release of a brand new low level API and beta driver. AMD said that this is to be considered an early beta. Beta's have bugs.

IMO its in pretty good shape for an initial beta release, I've been able to play whole matches with the mantle renderer with relativity few issues, and so far not even any crashes. (amd 280x, win 8.1).

There will be driver and bf4 updates to smooth things out.

 

[blackened23]

And how much does one spend on a processor? I guarantee you that mantle will help quite a few people, more than you think. In fact, I'm probably a little average with my specs and a majority of gamers have similar build.

I5 2400 paired with a AMD 270. The cpu cost around $200 along with a $200 video card.

He's saying it will help. If you play 1-2 games. On the other hand, the vast majority of PC gamers with high end hardware will get a processor that gives them a great experience in all games.

Now for those using only an APU with no dGPU, this is a boost for them. But, again, only for Mantle games. There are 3 confirmed Mantle games for 2014 and 1-2 maybe games. Most of the FB3 games, even if they're using Mantle, are slated for either 2015 release or have no release date at all pinpointed. So the entire point here is that the notion of hanging on to a crap CPU is absurd because with Mantle, you don't get coverage in 100% of games. You get coverage in very few games. Far less than 1% of games, and most PC gamers play a ton of games since Steam sales are so popular.

So, basically, you can get a cheap junk 7600k APU and get a good experience in one game with Mantle. Maybe. Possibly with a 290X dGPU. I would argue the vast majority of PC gamers would find this notion absurd - if you're paying that much for a dGPU, you're going to get a good CPU to match that gives you a good experience in 100% of games. Not .001% of games. Honestly, I just have to laugh at anyone thinking that a 290X with an APU is going to be a "thing". Come on. The APU by itself with a low end dGPU is nice for HTPC, I don't disagree with that. But anyone suggesting a Celeron or APU with a 290X...ahem..yeah right. I don't think the vast majority of PC gamers will spend 600-700$ on a dGPU only to get the cheapest crap CPU they can find. Not for 1-2 games.

I think the most realistic scenarios for Mantle use will be for 1) High end PCs with high end dGPUs and 2) low end APUs with possibly a low end dGPU. But this mythical scenario of APU + 290X? Yeah uh, no.

 

[Abwx]

The whole point is, and I find it hilarious you guys can't even grasp something so simple, neither AMD nor DICE are making all these games. He can sit there and say "our engine will work with it and there are these games using our engine" but that doesn't mean that the actual developer who is not DICE will take the time to put it in their game. When it comes to crunch time, EA will rip Mantle out to ship a game before devoting lots of man hours and money on it unless there is some financial motivation for them. They want to sell games, not GPUs.

Neither DICE nor AMD have the right to put thoses games providers
names in this slide without the consent of theses very games providers,
that s what you you cant grasp.

 

[cmdrdredd]

A quick look at the BF4 forums shows why they weren't ready to release yet. It is flooded with Mantle issues. I can't say I have them myself, as I am just now downloading the driver to give it a spin.


http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/view/2955065670116713685/

It was later than they wanted due to BF4 being problematic overall. I see in their Mantle thread a couple people without AMD cards saying the update crashes them too. One guy says he lost about 5fps on a 7750.

I dunno how widespread these issues are, it's just their complaint forum really.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Neither DICE nor AMD have the right to put thoses games providers
names in this slide without the consent of theses very games providers,
that s what you you cant grasp.

Yeah they can. They use FB3. That does NOT mean they use Mantle by default.

 

[Abwx]

Yeah they can. They use FB3. That does NOT mean they use Mantle by default.

They cant because the slide is also about mantle, not only FB3..

That said you should read what is written on the slide..

 

[SiliconWars]

Exactly. Mantle is still a niche (gcn cards), within a niche(very limited number of games), within a niche( minimal improvement except in CPU limited scenarios). If one is building a thousand dollar gaming rig, it is absurd to not get a powerful CPU that can perform well in all situations.

If one has a slow CPU, and the *only* demanding game he plays is BF4, then you will get a boost, but if you want to play other CPU demanding games, you will not be able to delay an upgrade because of mantle.

Explain to me again why somebody with a fast CPU wouldn't buy a 290X...or two...instead of a 780 Ti?

 

[ASM-coder]

Yeah they can. They use FB3. That does NOT mean they use Mantle by default.

They are all EA companies. If EA believes in Mantle, then end of discussion.
EA certainly believes in Frostbite.

 

[cmdrdredd]

They are all EA companies. If EA believes in Mantle, then end of discussion.
EA certainly believes in Frostbite.

EA believes in money, if it is costing money and time where they could ship it won't make it in the product.

 

[Imouto]

Explain to me again why somebody with a fast CPU wouldn't buy a 290X...or two...instead of a 780 Ti?

Because Mantle is limited to 1 game atm. 2 next month and the GTX 780 Ti is still faster overall. By the time Mantle becomes relevant, if it ever happens, you will have better and faster options from both camps.

If you want the very best now you have to go with a GTX 780 Ti.