The AMD Mantle Thread

[Spidre]

I always forget NV has an API. Why do you hear such little about it?

 

[ASM-coder]

One thing that hasn't been discussed(I don't think) is one implication of the oft-mentioned frame-time spikes under Mantle. Although in general Mantle is much smoother, there seemed to be some consistent high spikes in some benchmarking. Once those are fixed(and I assume they can and will be), average FPS numbers should improve even more.

On a different note, I have wondered if Mantle is an "all-or-nothing" solution or a hi-bred solution, where both Mantle and DirectX calls are made?

 

[mikk]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Battl...d-4-Windows-81-Windows-7-Performance-1108811/


Nvidia DX11.1 is close to Mantle in this test.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Battl...d-4-Windows-81-Windows-7-Performance-1108811/


Nvidia DX11.1 is close to Mantle in this test.

Looks like all their testing is single player. We've covered this numerous times. Singleplayer barely taxes the hardware compared to multiplayer.

 

[ASM-coder]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Battl...d-4-Windows-81-Windows-7-Performance-1108811/


Nvidia DX11.1 is close to Mantle in this test.

Well, there is no direct Mantle comparison there, unless you are trying to guess how Mantle would perform on their exact rig.

However, it does show that perhaps AMD needs to do some driver work in Windows 8.1.

 

[mikk]

Looks like all their testing is single player. We've covered this numerous times. Singleplayer barely taxes the hardware compared to multiplayer.

No this is Multiplayer 64 players.

 

[ASM-coder]

No this is Multiplayer 64 players.

I'm not convinced they used Mantle in that final 8.1 clip. Why doesn't it show Mantle (in green) in the upper left, like the Win 7 clip?
And why didn't they do a before/after Mantle comparison for the R9 card.
Since I don't speak German, maybe they explain all that. I know the text said...
"The first results you see in our video , the complete set of values ​​and measurements then read in the upcoming PC Games Hardware ."

 

[PPB]

Running the game under Mantle shows "Mantle" instead of DirectX 11 in the screen info on the top left.

 

[ASM-coder]

Running the game under Mantle shows "Mantle" instead of DirectX 11 in the screen info on the top left.

Yes, and I see that for the Win7 portion, but not the Win8.1.
Am I just missing it?

 

[kane15]

someone posted this over on battlelog, people also need to remember theres only been one BETA driver released so far that supports mantle its far from finished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqqkzu9sAe8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[mikk]

I'm not convinced they used Mantle in that final 8.1 clip.

They did. Over 100 fps on 780 Ti dx11.1 and 110 fps with Mantle 290x in CPU limit. No exact fps for 780 Ti dx11.1 since they have to sell a magazine.

 

[mindbomb]

the 780 ti doesn't support the dx11.1 renderer in bf4, only the 750 ti does. There should be no difference between win 7 and 8 except margin of error.

 

[Venomous]

I don't think there's anything wrong with dice using optimized D3D for BF4 with nvidias wrapper. Regardless the sweet spot for either card is 290/780. Neither of which you would be able to tell apart from gaming.

Just curious how this thread got derailed showing benchmarks or who's card is faster overall . This is supposed to be a price rant thread!

 

[Stuka87]

One thing that hasn't been discussed(I don't think) is one implication of the oft-mentioned frame-time spikes under Mantle. Although in general Mantle is much smoother, there seemed to be some consistent high spikes in some benchmarking. Once those are fixed(and I assume they can and will be), average FPS numbers should improve even more.

On a different note, I have wondered if Mantle is an "all-or-nothing" solution or a hi-bred solution, where both Mantle and DirectX calls are made?

Whenever somebody takes a screen shot there will be a big spike. Which was the case with Dice's screenshots that they posted.

And there is a known bug which causes a big frame drop now and then in Mantle. Its a known issue which Dice says they will be fixing.

 

[Stuka87]

the 780 ti doesn't support the dx11.1 renderer in bf4, only the 750 ti does. There should be no difference between win 7 and 8 except margin of error.

The whole 700 series supports 11.1. It requires no hardware change to go from 11 to 11.1. Its just a driver change.

 

[mikk]

the 780 ti doesn't support the dx11.1 renderer in bf4, only the 750 ti does. There should be no difference between win 7 and 8 except margin of error.

This is wrong. Nvidia supports most of the directx 11.1 features including all in BF4.

 

[boxleitnerb]

the 780 ti doesn't support the dx11.1 renderer in bf4, only the 750 ti does. There should be no difference between win 7 and 8 except margin of error.

Not correct. The 780 Ti supports portions of 11.1 and BF4 uses it. There is enough evidence that Nvidia is faster with 8.1 than with 7.

 

[ASM-coder]

And there is a known bug which causes a big frame drop now and then in Mantle. Its a known issue which Dice says they will be fixing.

I knew they had acknowledged the fog issue as a bug. I hadn't seen anything on the spike issue. But that's good to know.

 

[Carfax83]

I am sure I dont know, as I am sure you dont either.

Ignorance might be bliss for you, but for those of us that aren't afraid to use our critical thinking skills, we'll arrive at our own conclusions based on the abundance of evidence from the reviews..

Correction? Where did i state it was all game devs? Never did? That would be stupid! When is the last time a president was elected with 100%? There is no correction to be made besides perhaps editing FUD out of your post, and you stopping implying made-up-stuff on others behalf.

You said "game devs" which implied there was some major industry support behind Mantle, when in reality, it's just a few developers.

Obviously? Obviously? So, you have reviewed the evidence and in your mind there is only one conlusion to be made; AMD cant figure out how to multithread their drivers? Hehe, it is a little funny though, let me ask you, what do you know about multithreading? Driver development? How confident do you feel when you conclude and speak out loud :"This is a multithreading issue in AMDs driver stack. I know this, because, well, I just do."?
This is just more misinformation and FUD. Please stop it sir.

Actually, it's not misinformation. PClabs.pl formally uncovered this weakness in a review they did, but this is something which has been known for a long time by PC enthusiasts.

That, along with the fact that AMD still doesn't support DX11 multithreading, is very telling..

 

[Carfax83]

One thing guys DICE is not just using vanilla D3D for NV gpus they are augmenting it with NVAPI as well.It's scope is far limited compared to mantel but it may have some performance improvement tricks up it's sleeves.

As far as I know, NVAPI isn't even remotely like Mantle. NVAPI is for low level interfacing with the driver and the hardware for certain functions, but it's not directly involved in rendering performance like Mantle.

 

[Carfax83]

I always forget NV has an API. Why do you hear such little about it?

Probably because it's not a rendering API..

 

[BrightCandle]

The difference between Mantle and NVAPI is you can download NVAPI and look into precisely what it does, read the developer documentation and write programs against it. Thus I can categorically declare that NVAPI does not have much to do with rendering. Its more about settings for the GPU, which includes things like display setup, SLI setup, DP parameters and a host of other features and functions that are special to Nvidia GPUs (and sometimes to AMD as well). The Nvidia control panel presumably uses NVAPI to do much of what it does, its that sort of functionality and I suspect you could implement much of the CP using NVAPI.

 

[ASM-coder]

Actually, it's not misinformation. PClabs.pl formally uncovered this weakness in a review they did, but this is something which has been known for a long time by PC enthusiasts.

All PC enthusiasts?
You say "PC enthusiasts" which implies there is some sort of majority, when in reality, it's just a number of PC enthusiasts, especially those who seem to hate on AMD, for unspecified reasons.

 

[mindbomb]

This is wrong. Nvidia supports most of the directx 11.1 features including all in BF4.

Not correct. The 780 Ti supports portions of 11.1 and BF4 uses it. There is enough evidence that Nvidia is faster with 8.1
than with 7.

I thought this as well, but with the mantle patch, they added a command to show you which api was in use, and on kepler on win 8, there are user reports that it is dx11 and not dx11.1.

Maxwell (750ti) will probably be able to run dx11.1 though.

 

[krumme]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Battl...d-4-Windows-81-Windows-7-Performance-1108811/


Nvidia DX11.1 is close to Mantle in this test.

Nvidia cards is okey if you play single player or play testrange a lot.
Especially on the testrange its running smooth.