The AMD Mantle Thread

[Will Robinson]

For someone like me, with only Battlefield 4 demanding anything from my system, and myself still running a first gen i7, Mantle sounds awesome.

Exactamundo +1 :thumbsup:

If you go through this thread the bulk of the negativity is coming from those with SLI rigs proudly in their signatures.
I'm pretty sure most AMD GCN card owners are quite happy with the free performance upgrade that Mantle brings.

 

[omeds]

If you go through this thread the bulk of the negativity is coming from those with SLI rigs proudly in their signatures.

I'm not sure why, win8.1 DX11.2 offers similar CPU bound gains for those users.

 

[wand3r3r]

I'm not sure why, win8.1 DX11.2 offers similar CPU bound gains for those users.

Such as the (claimed) 58% gains with dual cards? What about the major gains on low end setups?

Show me some numbers. Didn't both AMD and NV cards gain with 8.1 anyway.

 

[omeds]

Yep such as those gains. AMD isn't seeing anywhere near the same sort of gains under DX11.2 win8.1 as Nv, but they have Mantle instead. In either case, both are showing significant gains to CPU bound performance.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I'm not sure why, win8.1 DX11.2 offers similar CPU bound gains for those users.

Ok, show benchmarks that aren't using a $1000 CPU oc'ed to 4.8ghz and a $700 gpu.

 

[3DVagabond]

Interesting how the opinion of Windows 8.1 is all of a sudden so good. At least on these forums. I seem to recall THIS being the general consensus before the Polish review we've seen posted now. Add that Windows 8.1 is less than 4% market share when people want to state that GCN doesn't have enough presence in the market to really matter.

On a different note, I also find it interesting that an AMD backed game would support a technology that they don't and their competitor does. That should speak volumes to the attitude of AMD towards Gaming, gamers, and the community overall. Especially when you consider this...

If I were NVidia's CEO, I wouldn't support Mantle. I would play to my strengths, and try to expose AMD's weaknesses with Direct3D..

... does seem to fit into the competitions general attitude when it comes to gaming, gamers, and the community overall.

I would personally be shocked if AMD does lock the competition out of Mantle. It just doesn't fit their typical practices.

 

[omeds]

I wasn't aware the opinion of win8.1 is "all of a sudden good", or that anyone here implied that. However, there are real performance benefits to be had for gaming under win8.1.

Ok, show benchmarks that aren't using a $1000 CPU oc'ed to 4.8ghz and a $700 gpu.

I don't know of the "$1000 CPU" benchmarks you're referring to, do you have a link?
Pretty sure you already viewed the numbers in the win8.1 performance thread.

 

[7stars]

Why should they sacrifice that massive advantage?

maybe 'cause CPUs are not just for playing games ?! e.g. how many are the BF4 gamers compared to the total of the PCs owners ?

 

[coercitiv]

Mantle is superior to Direct3D in terms of CPU overhead and thread management, but adopting it wouldn't bring significant benefits to NVidia judging by the benchmarks.

If I were NVidia's CEO, I wouldn't support Mantle. I would play to my strengths, and try to expose AMD's weaknesses with Direct3D..

Mantle effectively halves CPU requirements in games. It makes desktop CPU upgrades optional for at least one more generation and has tremendous implications in mobile gaming.

If you don't see how this translates into more GPU and more games sales combined then you couldn't possibly be NVidia's CEO in the first place.

If it's not Mantle, it will be something else, but it's gonna happen, whether some people like it or not. The $$$ implications are just too big.

 

[kane15]

I'm not sure why, win8.1 DX11.2 offers similar CPU bound gains for those users.

ugh... what? you mean with nvidia cards? i have windows 8.1 installed and still gained over the 45% advertised boost with mantle

i7 920 OC to 3.2
12 gigs DDR3 ram 1600
290x OC to 1100/1450
windows 8.1

max fps with ultra on mantle 180 min 120
max fps with ultra on DX 120 min 60

that's in MP and outdoor maps (not locker where everyone gains 20 fps)

one thing i really noticed is i got ALOT more out of my OC on my 290x with mantle then DX for obvious reasons... my normal OC would give just about anyone 12% more performance now gives me easy 20% extra

Yep such as those gains. AMD isn't seeing anywhere near the same sort of gains under DX11.2 win8.1 as Nv, but they have Mantle instead. In either case, both are showing significant gains to CPU bound performance.

ah ok sorry didn't see second post, so cant really comment on but that really is a bold claim.....and i very much doubt it. i did gain a FPS boost going from win7 to win8.1 even before mantle, alot of people did with both cards but to say nvidia gained so much more then AMD that a 780ti with DX = 290x with mantle with a CPU bottleneck is crazy lol

 

[n0x1ous]

I'm pretty sure most AMD GCN card owners are quite happy with the free performance upgrade that Mantle brings

Actually it would be the small percentage of GCN owners who have Hawaii cards that are happy. The majority of GCN card owners with Tahiti are not happy at all with Mantle.

 

[The Alias]

Actually it would be the small percentage of GCN owners who have Hawaii cards that are happy. The majority of GCN card owners with Tahiti are not happy at all

I have a 7770 and I'm extremely happy. Don't try to speak for other people, when you're incorrect .

 

[n0x1ous]

I have a 7770 and I'm extremely happy. Don't try to speak for other people, when you're incorrect .

pretty sure thats not Tahiti buddy - need reading comprehension

 

[ICDP]

pretty sure thats not Tahiti buddy - need reading comprehension

HD 7770 is a cut down Tahiti GPU called Cape Verde, both belong to the Southern Islands family of GPUs.

So it is indeed a Tahiti derivative GPU. Though you did say "majority" and in no way should that be inferred as "all".

 

[kane15]

HD 7770 is a cut down Tahiti GPU called Cape Verde, both belong to the Southern Islands family of GPUs.

So it is indeed a Tahiti derivative GPU. Though you did say "majority" and in no way should that be inferred as "all".

right only the 290x/290 are Hawaii

 

[n0x1ous]

HD 7770 is a cut down Tahiti GPU called Cape Verde, both belong to the Southern Islands family of GPUs.

So it is indeed a Tahiti derivative GPU. Though you did say "majority" and in no way should that be inferred as "all".

Right I'm aware of what a 7770 core is, I specifically mentioned Tahiti (7950,7970, 280x) because I think that represents the majority of HD7000 owners here on our forum.

For me the game is unplayable with Mantle. Stuttering, crashes, washed out colors etc etc. All the known things. I think they should have released the driver for Hawaii only until it was ready for HD7XXX

 

[ASM-coder]

The majority of GCN card owners with Tahiti are not happy at all

If you go to Newegg, you see the "majority" of owners like their Tahiti based cards. Where do you get your numbers?

 

[n0x1ous]

If you go to Newegg, you see the "majority" of owners like their Tahiti based cards. Where do you get your numbers?

Im not saying they arent happy with their cards, Im saying they are not happy with Mantle on their cards. That is what this thread is about after all.

I like my 7970's very much, just not when Mantle is enabled.

I edited the referenced post to clarify this.

 

[ASM-coder]

Im not saying they arent happy with their cards, Im saying they are not happy with Mantle on their cards. That is what this thread is about after all.

I like my 7970's very much, just not when Mantle is enabled.

Fair enough. Sorry. But you knew that going in. DICE & AMD made it very clear.

 

[n0x1ous]

Fair enough. Sorry. But you knew that going in. DICE & AMD made it very clear.

Correct I did know that, and its no skin off my back. I can easily max the game out in DX11 with either of my rigs. However, If you read the the post I quoted from Will Robinson, you will see he says that the Majority of GCN owners are happy with Mantle. I simply pointed out that this is not the case.

The fact that AMD/Dice told us this ahead of time doesnt change it. They shouldn't have released the driver for the HD7XXX series at all until they had optimized for it.

 

[Paul98]

As soon as the the stutter and memory leak in BF4 on mantle I will be happy. Till then I just continue to use DX.

 

[parvadomus]

As soon as the the stutter and memory leak in BF4 on mantle I will be happy. Till then I just continue to use DX.

So, there is a memory leak? In both mantle and DX? That could explain the worse performance compared with Nvidia. Is it only with AMD video cards?

 

[kane15]

over on battlelog people are saying theres a memory leak with AMD cards in windows 8 and has something to do with the beta drivers (witch is required to use mantle) i rarely play more then 2 or 3 rounds in a row so ive not experienced it myself

 

[ASM-coder]

However, If you read the the post I quoted from Will Robinson, you will see he says that the Majority of GCN owners are happy with Mantle. I simply pointed out that this is not the case.

The fact that AMD/Dice told us this ahead of time doesnt change it. They shouldn't have released the driver for the HD7XXX series at all until they had optimized for it.

I would say that the majority may still be happy, because they have seen what is possible, and can look forward to the improvements.
I don't even have a GCN card, but I am happy with it(Mantle) and I have decided to buy one.
Just waiting for the dust to settle, maybe for 14.2(or whatever.)
Had AMD/Dice waited, we would all be more frustrated, so I think it was the right move.

 

[n0x1ous]

I would say that the majority may still be happy, because they have seen what is possible, and can look forward to the improvements.
I don't even have a GCN card, but I am happy with it, and I have decided to buy one.
Just waiting for the dust to settle, maybe for 14.2(or whatever.)
Had AMD/Dice waited, we would all be more frustrated, so I think it was the right move.

You think releasing broken software that promises to be fixed later is better than delaying and fixing before release? Do you also think BF4 should have been released as it was or should Dice have had a functioning game before release?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just dont see how releasing something that knowingly doesnt work makes any sense. It just makes them look bad to the users who are perhaps not in the know to the same degree of AT forum members....