The American Autobahn

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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The American Autobahn
By Eric Peters

We're picking up speed, in case you hadn't noticed.

Since Congress finally ditched the Nixon-era 55-mph National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL) back in 1995, most states have raised their highway limits to at least 65 mph; more than than two dozen states have raised them to 70-mph -- and in Texas, it's 75. For the most part, posted speed limits have been posted to reflect the natural flow of highway traffic -- in the 70-80-mph range -- just as the designers of the Interstate system had planned, back in the 1950s.

Most of us were driving that fast before, of course -- but we had to live in constant fear of being ticketed for "speeding " -- jamming on the brakes at the first sign of a suspicious-looking Crown Vic or Chevy Caprice.

Now we can drive at the speeds for which our highways were designed -- without risking a a fat fine and "points" on our DMV record.

But for more than 20 years, we had to live with the dumbed-down "double nickel" -- a federal law enacted during the energy crisis as a fuel conservation measure. But when the gas crisis ended, the double nickel stayed -- morphing from a temporary conservation measure imposed at a time of national emergency into a supposed "safety" issue.

"Speed kills" became the mantra -- and the radar trap a fact of American life.

All of a sudden, virtually every driver on the road was guilty of "speeding" -- because the dumbed-down limit was so unnaturally low that complying with it was not only tedious but difficult and awkward -- like forcing oneself to shuffle down the street at the pace of an 80-year-old rather than walking normally. Driving at speeds previously considered perfectly safe and reasonable -- 65, 70, 75 mph -- was suddenly not merely illegal, it was "unsafe." Doing so exposed one to large fines, DMV "points" -- even a "reckless driving" charge if you got caught doing more than 20-mph over the limit (i.e., 76-mph in a 55-mph zone).

It was all nonsense -- and everyone, from the cop pulling you over to the judge levying the fine -- knew it. But the NMSL generated enormous sums of money for local and state governments -- a "revenue stream" they quickly became addicted to and would not give up easily.

Hence the 20-year legacy of double-talk about "safety" and "speed kills" that was used to prop up the corrupt system of absurdly under-posted speed limits -- and the gauntlet of radar traps set up to exploit motorists at every turn. We're still living with much of the after-effects today -- even though the NMSL is history and highway limits have been raised back to reasonable levels.

With the exception of a minority of hysterics who actually believed driving 65 or 70 on a major interstate in a modern car to be "dangerous" (despite abundant evidence to the contrary), most Americans knew in their own minds they were doing no wrong ignoring the double nickel -- and accordingly felt no moral guilt when they did so. Evading cops -- with radar detectors, by "flashing" other motorists to alert them to the presence of a smokey up ahead -- became a national pastime. But the corrupting of traffic safety enforcement was no laughing matter.

As with Prohibition, police were compelled to enforce unjust laws on absurd pretexts -- harassing sensible and otherwise law-abiding people for no good reason. This created an ugly rift between ordinary citizens and the police that has yet to be healed. Ordinary motorists rightly resented the cop lurking in a cut-out with his radar gun, ready to hand out a $100 piece of payin' paper. Instead of focusing on genuinely dangerous driving (inappropriate speed for conditions, tail-gating, weaving through traffic, etc.) the majority of time and effort was spent radar-trapping -- because it was the easiest, fastest way to generate "revenue." Many departments had (and still have) explicit performance quotas -- each traffic patrol officer being strongly urged to write a certain number of tickets per month or face some sort of sanction.

The abandonment of the NMSL was a great leap forward in restoring sanity to America's traffic enforcement system. But a great deal of work remains to be done -- starting with a shift in emphasis away from enforcing "technical fouls" (such as "speeding") that do not necessarily involve dangerous driving, to a laser-like targeting of the handful of genuinely unsafe (or incompetent) motorists who are the biggest threat to themselves and other drivers.

It might raise less cash -- but it would make our roads much safer.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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alienbabeltech.com
The gas crisis ended?

:roll:

$3 a gallon is a "crisis" to me . . .
:shocked:

Now that the roads are getting so crowded it looks like 55mph might be the next "goal"
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
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Originally posted by: apoppin
The gas crisis ended?

:roll:

$3 a gallon is a "crisis" to me . . .
:shocked:

Mow that the roads are getting so crowded it looks like 55 might be the next "goal"

When adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are FAR lower than they were during the 70s oil crunch.

During the late 90s and early 00s we enjoyed artifically low oil prices as OPEC over produced in an effort to force out small producers.
 

cavemanmoron

Lifer
Mar 13, 2001
13,664
28
91
The local interstate is 55mph,going thru Albany,
I 90,and I 787;
very rare to see anyone going under 60mph,unless the traffic is "rush hour" jammed.

Fastest I have driven was about 140 mph,2 different times.
once in 1979,and again in 2003.

Scarey to think of a tire blowing at those speeds tho.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
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Originally posted by: alent1234
people on NYC highways drive at 65 or 70 when the limit is 50 with no problems

Yep. And this is his point. All the 55 limit did was raise ticket revenues. Our Interstates were build for 1950 era cars to travel at 75-80 MPH safely.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
The gas crisis ended?

:roll:

$3 a gallon is a "crisis" to me . . .
:shocked:

Mow that the roads are getting so crowded it looks like 55 might be the next "goal"

When adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are FAR lower than they were during the 70s oil crunch.

During the late 90s and early 00s we enjoyed artifically low oil prices as OPEC over produced in an effort to force out small producers.

$3 is just an "interim" on the way to $5+ . . . . and Highways are neither being repaired nor being constructed fast enough to handle the increase of traffic that is [artificially] reducing speeds far below the speedlimits [near cities] anyway.

With 'gridlock' around the corner for most growing US cities, an increased speed limit is moot [unless you like driving between 3-5 am].
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
The gas crisis ended?

:roll:

$3 a gallon is a "crisis" to me . . .
:shocked:

Mow that the roads are getting so crowded it looks like 55 might be the next "goal"

When adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are FAR lower than they were during the 70s oil crunch.

During the late 90s and early 00s we enjoyed artifically low oil prices as OPEC over produced in an effort to force out small producers.

$3 is just an "interim" on the way to $5+ . . . . and Highways are neither being repaired nor being constructed fast enough to handle the increase of traffic that is [artificially] reducing speeds far below the speedlimits [near cities] anyway.

With 'gridlock' around the corner for most growing US cities, an increased speed limit is moot [unless you like driving between 3-5 am].

You're forgetting the vast stretches of highway in between cities and states.

At any rate, that's the very reason I don't live in a large city anymore.

And I don't see gas hitting $5 anytime soon.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
The gas crisis ended?

:roll:

$3 a gallon is a "crisis" to me . . .
:shocked:

Mow that the roads are getting so crowded it looks like 55 might be the next "goal"

When adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are FAR lower than they were during the 70s oil crunch.

During the late 90s and early 00s we enjoyed artifically low oil prices as OPEC over produced in an effort to force out small producers.

$3 is just an "interim" on the way to $5+ . . . . and Highways are neither being repaired nor being constructed fast enough to handle the increase of traffic that is [artificially] reducing speeds far below the speedlimits [near cities] anyway.

With 'gridlock' around the corner for most growing US cities, an increased speed limit is moot [unless you like driving between 3-5 am].

You're forgetting the vast stretches of highway in between cities and states.

At any rate, that's the very reason I don't live in a large city anymore.

And I don't see gas hitting $5 anytime soon.

those "vast stretches" are rarely used by most of us . . . . those of us facing reality and watching unatttainable speed limits as we are forced to a crawl [stop].

20 years ago, i moved 120 miles AWAY from the big cities (LA/SD) to the SoCal HI Desert (near Palm Springs) where I-10 was "open" and most drivers would drive around 80mph . . . . but now there is a LOT of traffic - between 2:30-6pm the fast-lane speed is around 50mph - BUT there are still drivers TRYING to do 80 . . .
results . . . LOTS of serious accidents and I-10 is now regularly closed to clean up the mess. We have 3-4 lanes where 5 should be "minimum" now.

As i drive the highway infrastructure all over SoCal, i see ridiculous overcrowing and the speed limit is more than of a "goal" than a "reality" (as it used to be).

And i DO see gas hitting $5 a gallon - relatively soon [unfortunately].
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
The gas crisis ended?

:roll:

$3 a gallon is a "crisis" to me . . .
:shocked:

Mow that the roads are getting so crowded it looks like 55 might be the next "goal"

When adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are FAR lower than they were during the 70s oil crunch.

During the late 90s and early 00s we enjoyed artifically low oil prices as OPEC over produced in an effort to force out small producers.

$3 is just an "interim" on the way to $5+ . . . . and Highways are neither being repaired nor being constructed fast enough to handle the increase of traffic that is [artificially] reducing speeds far below the speedlimits [near cities] anyway.

With 'gridlock' around the corner for most growing US cities, an increased speed limit is moot [unless you like driving between 3-5 am].

You're forgetting the vast stretches of highway in between cities and states.

At any rate, that's the very reason I don't live in a large city anymore.

And I don't see gas hitting $5 anytime soon.

i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
The gas crisis ended?

:roll:

$3 a gallon is a "crisis" to me . . .
:shocked:

Mow that the roads are getting so crowded it looks like 55 might be the next "goal"

When adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are FAR lower than they were during the 70s oil crunch.

During the late 90s and early 00s we enjoyed artifically low oil prices as OPEC over produced in an effort to force out small producers.

$3 is just an "interim" on the way to $5+ . . . . and Highways are neither being repaired nor being constructed fast enough to handle the increase of traffic that is [artificially] reducing speeds far below the speedlimits [near cities] anyway.

With 'gridlock' around the corner for most growing US cities, an increased speed limit is moot [unless you like driving between 3-5 am].

You're forgetting the vast stretches of highway in between cities and states.

At any rate, that's the very reason I don't live in a large city anymore.

And I don't see gas hitting $5 anytime soon.

those "vast stretches" are rarely used by most of us . . . . those of us facing reality and watching unatttainable speed limits as we are forced to a crawl [stop].

20 years ago, i moved 120 miles AWAY from the big cities (LA/SD) to the SoCal HI Desert (near Palm Springs) where I-10 was "open" and most drivers would drive around 80mph . . . . but now there is a LOT of traffic - between 2:30-6pm the fast-lane speed is around 50mph - BUT there are still drivers TRYING to do 80 . . .
results . . . LOTS of serious accidents and I-10 is now regularly closed to clean up the mess. We have 3-4 lanes where 5 should be "minimum" now.

As i drive the highway infrastructure all over SoCal, i see ridiculous overcrowing and the speed limit is more than of a "goal" than a "reality" (as it used to be).

And i DO see gas hitting $5 a gallon - relatively soon [unfortunately].

Judging the interstates of the US based on So Cal is myopic. Most of the country is not like So Cal at all. I know, I grew up in So Cal and visit there often.

Come out and see the rest of the country some time. Including that area most people just fly over.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

and also if the govt put a 5$ tax on gas they coudl use that money to fund welfare, education ,SS,... whatever
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

That's not what people want. Why force people, and by proxy, car makers to do what they do not want to do?

Never let the left tell you they don't impose their morality on others. It's a lie.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
As i drive the highway infrastructure all over SoCal, i see ridiculous overcrowing and the speed limit is more than of a "goal" than a "reality" (as it used to be).

And i DO see gas hitting $5 a gallon - relatively soon [unfortunately].

Judging the interstates of the US based on So Cal is myopic. Most of the country is not like So Cal at all. I know, I grew up in So Cal and visit there often.

Come out and see the rest of the country some time. Including that area most people just fly over.
i live in So Cal . . . i have lived in Hawaii recently and i have traveled the USA by car. MOST people live in cities. MOST people face traffic problems and gridlock. Cali is a good "predictor" for the rest of the USA.

I guess "you article" applies to those of us on vacation and the few of us lucky to live far away from cities.
:roll:
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

That's not what people want. Why force people, and by proxy, car makers to do what they do not want to do?

Never let the left tell you they don't impose their morality on others. It's a lie.

yes and people are stupid

who is this left?

it could also funs public transportation, which woudl also elmin traffic issues
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: apoppin
As i drive the highway infrastructure all over SoCal, i see ridiculous overcrowing and the speed limit is more than of a "goal" than a "reality" (as it used to be).

And i DO see gas hitting $5 a gallon - relatively soon [unfortunately].

Judging the interstates of the US based on So Cal is myopic. Most of the country is not like So Cal at all. I know, I grew up in So Cal and visit there often.

Come out and see the rest of the country some time. Including that area most people just fly over.
i live in So Cal . . . i have lived in Hawaii recently and i have traveled the USA by car. MOST people live in cities. MOST people face traffic problems and gridlock. Cali is a good "predictor" for the rest of the USA.

I guess "you article" applies to those of us on vacation and the few of us lucky to live far away from cities.
:roll:

Not at all. When in SoCal I commute often between Granada Hills and Westlake Village by way of Moorpark and the 118. During non-rush hour times I regularly can go 10 over the speed limit with little traffic in my way.

Not all of America's highways are gridlocked, or facing gridlock. To slow everyone down because you live in an area facing gridlock is silly. MILLIONS of people live in areas with little or no gridlock. Are they to be slowed to 55 because you can't drive at 75?

If you want roads expanded, fight the greenies in CA who have fought any and all freeway widening/double decking. Bitching to me is like singing to the choir.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

That's not what people want. Why force people, and by proxy, car makers to do what they do not want to do?

Never let the left tell you they don't impose their morality on others. It's a lie.

yes and people are stupid

who is this left?

it could also funs public transportation, which woudl also elmin traffic issues

Of course! I forgot. The high and mighty leftist elitists know what is better for us and we should all submit our freedoms and rights to them to be ruled by these intellectually superior leaders!

Piss off. If you've ever wondered why there is a huge backlash against liberalism in the US, look at your own attitude.

Public Transport in the US has nearly always been an abject failure because our populations are not nearly centralized enough to support them.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

and also if the govt put a 5$ tax on gas they coudl use that money to fund welfare, education ,SS,... whatever

First, 7 dollars would crush people and the economy worse than the Depression. Wanting that is plain stupid.

I have to disagree with you Amused, because part of the reason I have to pay gas prices I don't want to is because someone else decided they need a 6k lb vehicle making 350 hp to transport a bag of groceries.

This has gone beyond personal choice, and threatens the US far more than Saddam ever did. At some point this needs to be addressed and the only way it will happen is if the price of gas destroys the economy or it gets regulated. The famed free market is reactive. People matter more than it's Darwinian tendencies.

Now I am not suggesting Draconian regulations, but people could be found from all aspects of engineering and science to reach a consensus.

I suspect people are too stupid and greedy to seriously put this forward in DC though.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

That's not what people want. Why force people, and by proxy, car makers to do what they do not want to do?

Never let the left tell you they don't impose their morality on others. It's a lie.

yes and people are stupid

who is this left?

it could also funs public transportation, which woudl also elmin traffic issues

Of course! I forgot. The high and mighty leftist elitists know what is better for us and we should all submit our freedoms and rights to them to be ruled by these intellectually superior leaders!

Piss off. If you've ever wondered why there is a huge backlash against liberalism in the US, look at your own attitude.

Public Transport in the US has nearly always been an abject failure because our populations are not nearly centralized enough to support them.

im actually a registered republician
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

That's not what people want. Why force people, and by proxy, car makers to do what they do not want to do?

Never let the left tell you they don't impose their morality on others. It's a lie.

yes and people are stupid

who is this left?

it could also funs public transportation, which woudl also elmin traffic issues

Of course! I forgot. The high and mighty leftist elitists know what is better for us and we should all submit our freedoms and rights to them to be ruled by these intellectually superior leaders!

Piss off. If you've ever wondered why there is a huge backlash against liberalism in the US, look at your own attitude.

Public Transport in the US has nearly always been an abject failure because our populations are not nearly centralized enough to support them.

im actually a registered republician

Ah, excuse me then, you're a fascist elitist.

Go far enough right or far enough left and you come full circle.

Either way, the minute you said "people are stupid" you blew it. Arguing against individual choice is arguing against the very foundation of this country and freedom.
 

radioouman

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2002
8,632
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

That's not what people want. Why force people, and by proxy, car makers to do what they do not want to do?

Never let the left tell you they don't impose their morality on others. It's a lie.

yes and people are stupid

who is this left?

it could also funs public transportation, which woudl also elmin traffic issues

Of course! I forgot. The high and mighty leftist elitists know what is better for us and we should all submit our freedoms and rights to them to be ruled by these intellectually superior leaders!

Piss off. If you've ever wondered why there is a huge backlash against liberalism in the US, look at your own attitude.

Public Transport in the US has nearly always been an abject failure because our populations are not nearly centralized enough to support them.

That is absolutely wrong. It worked fine for the first half of the 1900s. It would still work, except that our public transportation systems are so sparce that we can hardly use them.
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

and also if the govt put a 5$ tax on gas they coudl use that money to fund welfare, education ,SS,... whatever


WTF Yeah let's put a 5 dollar tax so we can fund welfare. :roll:
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,555
16,396
146
Originally posted by: radioouman
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Anubis


i wish tomorrow we woudl all wake up and gas woudl be 7$ a gallon,

Why?

You do realize that the people most hurt by that would be the lower classes, right?

because it would hut so many people that it might actually force automakers to stop wasting money developping cars with huge HP numbers and start making cars that get 50 MPG

That's not what people want. Why force people, and by proxy, car makers to do what they do not want to do?

Never let the left tell you they don't impose their morality on others. It's a lie.

yes and people are stupid

who is this left?

it could also funs public transportation, which woudl also elmin traffic issues

Of course! I forgot. The high and mighty leftist elitists know what is better for us and we should all submit our freedoms and rights to them to be ruled by these intellectually superior leaders!

Piss off. If you've ever wondered why there is a huge backlash against liberalism in the US, look at your own attitude.

Public Transport in the US has nearly always been an abject failure because our populations are not nearly centralized enough to support them.

That is absolutely wrong. It worked fine for the first half of the 1900s. It would still work, except that our public transportation systems are so sparce that we can hardly use them.

No, it's absolutely right. Our populations were centralized in the early 1900s. The 1940s, 50s and 60s saw a HUGE migration to the suburbs. Suburbs were the death of public transportation, and always will be.

 
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