The American Dream Is Gone

[Matt1970]

That seems to be the popular answer, but it's not a very good one. Even in a society with perfect economic mobility, massive and increasing income inequality between professions is an issue. No society can consist entirely of stock brokers. Sure, the mechanic who fixes my car MIGHT be able to go back to school and learn how to trade futures or start his own shop if he also has business skills in addition to mechanic skills...but I still need someone to fix my car.

Edit: Basically the problem with your answer is that you're confusing "anyone can choose a new career" with "everyone can choose a new career". What MIGHT be a reasonable response for an individual (although I don't see why it's OK that it's getting harder and harder for people with valuable skills to earn a good living) is a crummy answer for society as a whole.

The thing is there is a wealth of knowledge on what careers pay what. Jumping on the back on a trash truck then complaining about the wage doesn't carry much weight. Then again if the wage is too low nobody will do it.

 

[Rainsford]

...
Also, I find some of the formulation in the original article strange. The top 1% incomes doubled their share of the national income, how is that possible?

Because organizing Americans by income percentile says NOTHING about their actual income, except that it's higher than X% of Americans. The top 1%, by definition, make more than 99% of Americans...that's all being in the top 1% means. They could make a little bit more, or they could make a lot more.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

OK...but what's your point? Your job/career is working out well for you? Great, me too! I just don't think that has much to do with the bigger picture.

So what's the bigger picture? My American dream is not gone and I see many around me in the same boat. Many of these people served in the military and worked in field service to get experience that allows them to have a job in the shop.

Is getting one's foot in the door and busting ass to get ahead is no longer the thing to do? Joining the military and choosing a job field that's in demand in the real world is bad?

I have no clue why people would be surprised that a liberal arts degree that cost $100k or more means absolutely nothing in the real world.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I think the "American dream" issue misses the point. I believe there is still plenty of opportunity, many ways that a smart go-getter can move from the lower classes to the upper classes.

The real problem is everyone else. We're not all Mark Zuckerbergs. Even in a place like this, because of the nature of the site, there's a natural "tilt" towards smarter, more capable people, with skills that are in demand.

But what about regular people? Half the country is below average, as the quip goes. And that's where we really run into problems. Because 50 years ago, you could do pretty well as an average Joe. And now, you really cannot.

 

[glenn1]

The American Dream is gone

No surprise here

Most of the people that support Corporations controlling the 99% are right here posting.

My American Dream is that lazy free-riders stop sponging off the productive class, and preferably that direct support welfare programs are extremely minimized if not abolished in favor of work programs. I don't have a terrible issue with income inequality, as I feel that it's desirable - we WANT to point to a high-school dropout not being upwardly mobile as an object lesson for others.

 

[Abraxas]

I think the "American dream" issue misses the point. I believe there is still plenty of opportunity, many ways that a smart go-getter can move from the lower classes to the upper classes.

The real problem is everyone else. We're not all Mark Zuckerbergs. Even in a place like this, because of the nature of the site, there's a natural "tilt" towards smarter, more capable people, with skills that are in demand.

But what about regular people? Half the country is below average, as the quip goes. And that's where we really run into problems. Because 50 years ago, you could do pretty well as an average Joe. And now, you really cannot.

I don't necessarily agree it is tilted towards smarter people, more capable people, or people whose skills are more in demand, at least not dominantly. Those traits lend themselves to a positive outcome, yes, but it seems to me the driving force in what it takes to succeed anymore is the willingness to do what others will not.

According to research, full on pychopaths are 4 times more prevalent heading up large companies than they are in the general population with a lot of the indicators for psychopathy being additionally over represented such as lack of remorse, being manipulative, and lack of empathy. It seems like often the person, and by extension, the company, that is willing to crap all over their workforce, willing to move jobs overseas for marginal gains, who are willing engage in risky and destructive behavior over a broader spectrum (e.g. credit default swaps, etc.) for personal gain are the ones who come out ahead over the more inhibited. It is the will to conquer at any cost that I believe the system is slanted towards with traits like intelligence shoring up their capacity to do so.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Awww. And your president is working with the lobbyists to keep drug prices high.

Who would you rather be fucked by? The guy that wants to be on the side of Big Pharmacy or the guy who says he's against Big Pharm but lies about it?

 

[Abraxas]

I don't know about you but the 99% are free to choose a career that pays more or start their own business.

David Wong of Cracked already covered this one really, really well so I'm just going to copy and paste what he said.

"#4. "If I Can Do It, So Can You!"

"We do not accept that ours will ever be a nation of haves and have-nots; we must always be a nation of haves and soon-to-haves."

-- Mitch Daniels, Governor of Indiana

What They Think They're Saying:

"This is the land of opportunity, where anyone can make it! Instead of complaining, just go out there and get rich!"

What We Hear:

"If everyone at my country club makes good money, it can't be that hard!"

This is such an impossibly strange idea that I'm not sure if the people saying it actually believe it.

But ... I guess our entire philosophy about money kind of revolves around this premise -- that there is no poor or working class, but only people who have chosen to not buckle down to the task of getting rich (and thus deserve whatever salary, insecurity or poor work conditions they get). So there should be no talk about improving the lives of the non-rich, since any of them can simply choose to elevate themselves out of that group, right?

Seriously, now. How much time do you really have to spend off your goddamned yacht to see that this isn't true? You don't even need to leave the dock -- there's a guy standing right there who you pay to fix your boat's engine. You know that 1) you absolutely need guys like him and 2) he will never get rich doing what he does. He could be great at his job, he might be the Michael Jordan of mechanics, he might work 100 hours a week -- it doesn't matter. Sure, if that one guy somehow also has the head for management and finance and the networking skills, he could maybe open his own chain of yacht repair shops. But they can't all do that.

So "anyone can get rich" isn't just untrue, it's insultingly untrue. You can't have a society where everyone is an investment banker. And you can't have a society where you pay six figures to every good policeman, nurse, firefighter, schoolteacher, carpenter, electrician and all of the other ten thousand professions that civilization needs to survive (and that rich people need in order to stay rich).

It's like setting a jar of moonshine on the floor of a boxcar full of 10 hobos and saying, "Now fight for it!" Sure, in the bloody aftermath you can say to each of the losers, "Hey, you could have had it if you'd fought harder!" and that's true on an individual level. But not collectively -- you knew goddamned well that nine hobos weren't getting any hooch that night. So why are you acting like it's their fault that only one of them is drunk?

You're intentionally conflating "anyone can have the moonshine" with "everyone can have it." And you are doing it because you're hoping that we will all be too busy fighting each other to ask why there was only one jar."

 

[GTaudiophile]

I don't think a lot of you understand what the dream is all about. The American dream is not a guaranteed 6 figure job. It is not a guaranteed new off the lot car. And the American dream is certainly not racking up 250K in student loans for an Art History Degree. The American Dream has absolutely NOTHING to do with what the Government can hand out to you.

The American Dream is still alive and well. People are still flocking to American for their piece of the pie. You never hear about people wanting to live the German Dream, or the French Dream, or the Scandanvian Dream.

I actually prefer the German Dream...

Otherwise, good post! Liked!

 

[Doppel]

I actually prefer the German Dream...

Otherwise, good post! Liked!

Why haven't you moved to Germany, or do you live there now? I am asking seriously; you always tout Germany as superior to the US but I hope that you already do live there or have a concrete and real plan to move there, or else your arguments don't seem quite as meaty.

 

[blackangst1]

Dont tell Liz Murray this. She'll be devastated.

 

[Abraxas]

Dont tell Liz Murray this. She'll be devastated.

The exception that proves the rule. The only reason the vast majority of people who know her name know her name is precisely because she made it and most don't.

 

[blackangst1]

The exception that proves the rule. The only reason the vast majority of people who know her name know her name is precisely because she made it and most don't.

And what does she possess that most people dont in order to succeed?

 

[Abraxas]

And what does she possess that most people dont in order to succeed?

Amazing luck at the very least.

 

[woodie1]

the NEW american dream is to get your adult kids to move out and STAY out and live within their income. And if they show up looking for a job with a mess of tat's/nose bolts/fishing lures/piercings/ guess who gets to live in mom and dads basement for the rest of their life!!

So true!

 

[dmcowen674]

You never hear about people wanting to live the German Dream, or the French Dream, or the Scandanvian Dream.

Dude where have you've been?

Those countries and a lot more are laughing at the U.S.

Where does the U.S. rank in Education, Science, Math etc?

Something like around 20th and dropping by the day.

Having your head in the sand does you no favors.

 

[From Abroad]

Indeed. the baby boomers generation had their chance to make some fortune. And they did (some of them).

Anyway, the current generation have to look for new opportunities, even though is hard to find. It's what it's. Each one have to dance according to the music that is actually playing.

You guys are complaining, but take a look at Spain's unemployment rate, as well as other EU countries. Thus is the "European dream" gone too?

Might be worse, that's for sure.

 

[Rainsford]

The thing is there is a wealth of knowledge on what careers pay what. Jumping on the back on a trash truck then complaining about the wage doesn't carry much weight. Then again if the wage is too low nobody will do it.

The fact that it's easy to figure out what the well paying careers are really doesn't have much to do with the problem I'm taking about. The existence of better paying jobs doesn't mean much if you don't take into account the chances of an individual getting a better paying job or the practicality of more or less requiring everyone to get those better paying jobs. In other words, telling an individual garbageman that he should become a stock broker might work, if he's got the skills, interest and opportunity to become a stock broker. Telling EVERY garbageman to become a stock broker isn't going to work, for a large number of reasons.

Income inequality is always going to exist. The problem is when income becomes more unequal so that the "basic" level of the American dream shifts further upward to only apply to a smaller portion of the population. Yes, any given individual can work towards becoming part of that smaller percentage, all else being equal (which it often isn't). But EVERYONE can't do that.

 

[Rainsford]

So what's the bigger picture? My American dream is not gone and I see many around me in the same boat. Many of these people served in the military and worked in field service to get experience that allows them to have a job in the shop.

Is getting one's foot in the door and busting ass to get ahead is no longer the thing to do? Joining the military and choosing a job field that's in demand in the real world is bad?

I have no clue why people would be surprised that a liberal arts degree that cost $100k or more means absolutely nothing in the real world.

The bigger picture is that it's not just about you or me and our personal experience (or the experiences of the relatively small sample of people directly around us in much the same situation). The problem is that "success" in the American economy is more elusive for more people than it used to be. And it's not just people who are too lazy to work hard, as you suggest, many people in highly skilled fields are having trouble as well. And even for those who find jobs, they're finding that wages are relatively stagnant lately and real wages haven't beaten inflation for years.

The bigger picture is that in the end it doesn't matter if success is still possible for some who are lucky or skilled or persistent enough to get that success. Our society simply can't function long term with too many people on the outside looking in. It used to be that working hard in a good skilled job got you a comfortable life in America. That's becoming increasingly harder to obtain.

 

[teddyv]

The American Dream died when it stopped being a dream attainable through years of hard work and sacrifice, and started being something people felt they were simply owed.

 

[dmcowen674]

The American Dream died when it stopped being a dream attainable through years of hard work and sacrifice, and started being something people felt they were simply owed.

Well then, where is my million dollars you owe me?

 

[Rainsford]

The American Dream died when it stopped being a dream attainable through years of hard work and sacrifice, and started being something people felt they were simply owed.

I find it remarkable that you think a large portion of the population suddenly turned too stupid and lazy to work for things they want. That is a pretty amazingly cynical mindset...that also conveniently allows you to claim to be hard working and smart without quite saying so.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by teddyv
The American Dream died when it stopped being a dream attainable through years of hard work and sacrifice, and started being something people felt they were simply owed.

I find it remarkable that you think a large portion of the population suddenly turned too stupid and lazy to work for things they want. That is a pretty amazingly cynical mindset...that also conveniently allows you to claim to be hard working and smart without quite saying so.

Hey hey hey I want him to fork it over

 

[IGBT]

The American Dream died when it stopped being a dream attainable through years of hard work and sacrifice, and started being something people felt they were simply owed.

social destruction has happened with ALL organized societies through out history. This one will be no different.

 

[1prophet]

It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q