The American Dream is too focused on individual achievement?

[JEDI]

Yesteryear (ie: Your parents generation), they had job security and guaranteed pensions.

Now people must shoulder too much of the risk and the burdens, rather than being spread across society.
You could be doing fine today, but down the road, not so much.

 

[brianmanahan]

yes?

 

[Balt]

I don't think striving for individual achievement in and of itself is bad. If anything society today doesn't seem to focus enough on personal responsibility.

Striving to acquire material possessions by whatever means necessary is a problem, though. If I can't have Kim Kardashian's purse or a 72" TV, I can't be happy.

 

[Newell Steamer]

It's more about like-individual achievement.

No one is self sustainable. But, there are a few people who look out for themselves and people like themselves.

No one has accomplished anything all by themselves. They rely on others. In the past, the others would be properly compensated and even respected. Today, the others are treated like self entitled leeches and are always short changed.

 

[Mai72]

Hmm...

IMO, life is quickly changing. The things that we took for granted just a few decades ago are quickly vanishing. We are going to see drastic changes as the need for a highly skilled workforce becomes more apparent, and globalization puts pressure on people to compete. This is going to leave out an awful lot of people who aren't highly skilled. Hell, we have a ton of young people who can't even do basic math! In turn, this is going to put pressure on our social services because we are going to have to take care of the people who can't find work. We are going to have many more people on welfare and SSI. This means higher taxes, etc.. Many Americans are going to be mired in poverty and totally dependent on the government for everything. Sadly, the America that we know and love is going to look much different. I didn't even bring up automation and how that's going to impact our economy.

I've always thought of security as an illusion. As Helen Keller stated "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it."

America is quickly changing. You either change with it or you get left behind. My father had a 4th grade education, and my mother didn't even get past high school. Yet, they were able to start businesses and be successful. My father had 3 furniture stores and he learned how to cook. All on his own. When my mom passed away, they ran a very successful cafe for nearly 15 years. In fact, they had just started a 2nd cafe when my mom died. They did what they wanted to do on their own. And that's the key. IMO, don't wait for the government or your work to take care of your pay/pension. Learn to invest. Go into business for yourself. Find ways to make money so you can live the life you want today. I don't trust anyone but myself, because I've seen what happens to people when they put their fate in the hands of other people who have selfish intentions. It's not good.

 

[Mai72]

I don't think striving for individual achievement in and of itself is bad. If anything society today doesn't seem to focus enough on personal responsibility.

Striving to acquire material possessions by whatever means necessary is a problem, though. If I can't have Kim Kardashian's purse or a 72" TV, I can't be happy.

And this is what most of America gets wrong with the wealthy. Having things does not make you happy. Yes, it's nice. But that's about it.

The real benefit to having money is being able to have choices in life. That's it. To be able to do what you want without being tied to a schedule. Time is valuable to the wealthy. You can never EVER get it back. Once it's gone that's it.

I have a buddy who owned a trucking company. Today, he is a multi-millionaire at 39. He sold his company and is sitting on a lot of money. But, the thing is you would never know that he has money. He doesn't brag. He has a decent car but that's it. What he does value is time. He takes week long vacations. He goes to sleep at 4am and wakes up whenever he pleases. He has 100% total control over his time.

And time is more valuable than owning a Porsche.

 

[Moonbeam]

In the good old days corporations cared about the people that worked for the and had a sense of the good of the community. Executives averaged 30 times the pay of the workers. Now the only care is for the share holders and executives make 200 time as much.

What if we made laws that reversed these changes? We could start by electing Bernie Sanders.

 

[cbrunny]

Outsider looking into USA culture, from Canada, which isn't that different. IMO, broad strokes, generally speaking the collective good is an after-thought, if it is a thought at all.

 

[IronWing]

The American dream has been recast as having a house and lots of possessions. I think the ideal was self-sufficiency and control of one's destiny regardless of net worth. Controlling one's own productivity, whether through owning one's own business or through being in a position to negotiate the terms of one's employment IMHO was more the essence of the American dream than possessing a bunch of crap. The current regime of debt slavery is certainly not the American dream.

 

[unokitty]

Get a clue. Dreams over. Been over quite a while...

Now, shut up and pay your taxes.

Those new immigrants need you to pay for their government services so that they can do the jobs that Americans won't do...

Besides an election is coming up, where do you expect the politicians to get the money to give away more 'free' stuff to their voters?

Uno

 

[brianmanahan]

In the past, the others would be properly compensated and even respected.

what time in the past is that?

 

[brianmanahan]

Yesteryear (ie: Your parents generation), they had job security and guaranteed pensions.

i have a secure job and a pension that will pay %1.5 of my final salary for every year worked

it is still possible to find jobs like this, despite what people say

 

[Greenman]

i have a secure job and a pension that will pay %1.5 of my final salary for every year worked

it is still possible to find jobs like this, despite what people say

If you're employer remains solvent, if the stock market doesn't crash, if runaway inflation doesn't reduce that pension to near zero value, if the system works, and remains stable, you're in great shape.

 

[Genx87]

The pension system was a good idea with a very poor implementation. I wouldnt trust my retirement to a pension system anymore than I would SS.

 

[brianmanahan]

I wouldnt trust my retirement to a pension system anymore than I would SS.

yeah neither do i. i max out 401k, IRA and save in taxable too. all told its about %50 of my income.

i just hope the pension is around too so i can take nice vacations or something

 

[Sonikku]

The US focuses on the culture of me. The mentality that insists one must accumulate a little more wealth at every opportunity regardless of the consequences. Destroy thousands of American jobs and off shore them to China without a second thought to fatten them margins? Sure, why not? Jack up the price of cancer meds thousands of times? Heck, the spreadsheet for profit says that those that can still afford it will more than offset those that no longer can! = More profit.

One is beholden to the share holders, not their fellow Americans. There is no loyalty or solidarity any more. It's every man for himself. People's support of their country rarely extends beyond a bumper sticker.

 

[BoberFett]

The US focuses on the culture of me. The mentality that insists one must accumulate a little more wealth at every opportunity regardless of the consequences. Destroy thousands of American jobs and off shore them to China without a second thought to fatten them margins? Sure, why not? Jack up the price of cancer meds thousands of times? Heck, the spreadsheet for profit says that those that can still afford it will more than offset those that no longer can! = More profit.

One is beholden to the share holders, not their fellow Americans. There is no loyalty or solidarity any more. It's every man for himself. People's support of their country rarely extends beyond a bumper sticker.

Funny that when you talk about "ME" you only frame it as the wealthy being greedy. As if you and everyone you know aren't just as greedy.

GIVE ME THINGS! GOVERMENT GIVE ME FREE STUFF! FREE COLLEGE! FREE HEALTH CARE! FREE FREE FREE! GIVE ME STUFF!

But no, it's just the wealthy that are greedy...

LOL, "liberals"...

 

[sandorski]

Who was it that said, "The American Dream is Socialism for the Rich, Rugged Individualism for the Poor"?

That seems to sum it up. Everytime a benefit from Government policy comes up, if it's for the Rich/Business it is embraced as necessary. Everytime it is for the Poor/Middle Class you would think Soviet Communism was being proposed.

Edit: Googled my question, it was Martin Luther King

 

[alcoholbob]

Wealth backed by production and then offshoring and an economy built on paper wealth. Every great power goes through this phase, first handing off the production while maintaining a semblance of paper wealth, then handing off the real wealth when its currency stops being a reserve currency. It's simply the baton-handoff cycle that all world powers transition through. Where do you think all the money came from that built American manufacturing in the 19th century? Rich Europeans trying to escape high European taxes. The same is just being played in reverse today.

 

[TheSlamma]

In the good old days corporations cared about the people that worked for the and had a sense of the good of the community. Executives averaged 30 times the pay of the workers. Now the only care is for the share holders and executives make 200 time as much.

What if we made laws that reversed these changes? We could start by electing Bernie Sanders.

If you dont have 400% or more profit margins you are considered a joke, pleasing shareholders has nothing to do with making a product that will last or make a strong customer relationship, its about how many people they can cut. Its a small picture instant gratification system that stems from this ongoing impatience people have and its counter to long term sustainability. But for some reason people lose their jobs and still don't see why this current system is bad for them.

 

[Jhhnn]

Funny that when you talk about "ME" you only frame it as the wealthy being greedy. As if you and everyone you know aren't just as greedy.

GIVE ME THINGS! GOVERMENT GIVE ME FREE STUFF! FREE COLLEGE! FREE HEALTH CARE! FREE FREE FREE! GIVE ME STUFF!

But no, it's just the wealthy that are greedy...

LOL, "liberals"...

Meanwhile-

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129068241

That just means poor people are soft in the head, right?

 

[MongGrel]

Funny that when you talk about "ME" you only frame it as the wealthy being greedy. As if you and everyone you know aren't just as greedy.

GIVE ME THINGS! GOVERMENT GIVE ME FREE STUFF! FREE COLLEGE! FREE HEALTH CARE! FREE FREE FREE! GIVE ME STUFF!

But no, it's just the wealthy that are greedy...

LOL, "liberals"...

I see you have arrived to brighten up everyone's Thanksgiving.

 

[bozack]

If you dont have 400% or more profit margins you are considered a joke, pleasing shareholders has nothing to do with making a product that will last or make a strong customer relationship, its about how many people they can cut. Its a small picture instant gratification system that stems from this ongoing impatience people have and its counter to long term sustainability. But for some reason people lose their jobs and still don't see why this current system is bad for them.

How do you propose "the people" change it, stop working? stop buying things?

in the "wonderful" past Moonbat speaks of global competition for jobs wasn't a reality, economics were favorable to companies which produced in the same country which they sold due to limited technology.

As we all know, things are no longer that simple....you can source products and services from anywhere, companies don't have to be headquartered in the country where they originated, and Murders and executions are the name of the game...

As someone said above you either change to adapt or you die...companies focus on shareholders because they drive revenue...CEOs are paid highly because other CEOs are paid highly and no matter how many of them take pay cuts it does little for the salary of the average workers.

I really wish there was an easy fix for all of this but there isn't, more people will fall into the marginally skilled category and move into lower middle class IMHO.

Meanwhile-

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129068241

That just means poor people are soft in the head, right?

umm big deal, its pretty well known that those who are less well to do aren't good at managing what money they have

realizing your trying to spin this as the wealthy are a bunch of misers which some/most may very well be, but the old adage the wealthy got wealthy by not spending and the poor stay poor by spending to much often rings true to some degree.

Reminds me of that story where a couple was getting by with only $5 left to their name each month but considered a membership to the YMCA and relatively large monthly donation to some cause necessities...don't care how well intentioned you are, that is just dumb.

 

[JEDI]

Meanwhile-

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129068241

That just means poor people are soft in the head, right?

You're going to play a game in which you're given 10 credits, which are going to be equal to cash at the end of the experiment, and we're interested in knowing how many of those credits you want to give, if any, to a partner that you'll never meet and who'll never meet you.


summary:
the poor gave away 44% more than those who identified themselves high in their socio-economic status.

reason:
the lower class have more feelings of sensitivity and care for the welfare of other people and, essentially, the emotion that we call compassion.

So it's really compassionate feelings that exist among the lower class that's seen to provoke these higher levels of altruism and generosity toward other people.


the reason surprised the hell out of me.
$10 isn't worth as much to someone making $75k/yr vs someone barely above poverty.
would have figured the upper class would give away more $ since the poor could use that $10 more.

 

[Jhhnn]

umm big deal, its pretty well known that those who are less well to do aren't good at managing what money they have

realizing your trying to spin this as the wealthy are a bunch of misers which some/most may very well be, but the old adage the wealthy got wealthy by not spending and the poor stay poor by spending to much often rings true to some degree.

Reminds me of that story where a couple was getting by with only $5 left to their name each month but considered a membership to the YMCA and relatively large monthly donation to some cause necessities...don't care how well intentioned you are, that is just dumb.

It's also easy for people at the top of the predatory heap to preach about greed as freedom & to set the little people against each other with illusions of being better than the other guy because some of 'em get paid a little better.

It's easy to exploit greed & pride at the same time. Hitchens had something to say about it-

I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough.

Who champions that headset, anyway?