The anti-AI thread

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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,650
3,514
136
My employer was sold an AI product based off of Chat GPT. I get to be part of the initial testing.

I asked the product's representatives what access the product had to encounter specific information. It has none.
I asked what data the product was trained on. It was trained on data from the internet.

Basically it is just ChatGPT being upsold to us. It has no specific use case and cannot actually do anything productive. It may make searching the internet slightly faster or more effective.

What a waste of money.
There are a lot of grifters repackaging ChatGPT.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,442
5,842
146
It's AI everything:


To be fair, this is nothing new, its just the same old dipshit marketing flunkies that have reached their final form where they just search hashtags on social media and see what they need to slap on their products as a buzzword. Its worse now because it happens more quickly and is like industry-wide (including major companies that normally wouldn't operate like that), whereas in the past it would take a bit as one company finds success with it and others try to mimic. Actually this more reeks of it being the middle manager asswipes that have been put in charge of most places going "AI's huge" and slapping it on everything regardless of it making any sense whatsoever.

This happens constantly in audio for instance. Not that long ago, the audio industry officially recognized "Hi-Res" as an official term and every single company subsequently slapped a Hi-Res sticker on their stuff, nevermind "Hi-Res" products had existed for literally decades already. Dolby has pimped out Atmos so hard that it is in everything from like sub $50 mono speakers and earbuds all the way up. Plus they're paying record companies to force artists to make Atmos versions of their music. The industry tried the same thing with MQA (which really was just the latest in their long line of attempts at DRM). Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed that Dolby didn't call their push as "Atmos Integrated" to be able to cash in on AI. But then we'll probably have someone make an "AI" device that's just a tube pre-amp for vinyl and think they're being snarky by calling it "Analogue Intelligence".
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,650
3,514
136
Shareholders love AI. Most don't understand it and think of it in nebulous manner. Similar to blockchain from a few years ago. They just want to see companies capitalizing on the latest industry buzz. See Apple's stock price today. Up 6% by mentioning AI a few thousand times.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
16,589
15,467
146
To be fair, this is nothing new, its just the same old dipshit marketing flunkies that have reached their final form where they just search hashtags on social media and see what they need to slap on their products as a buzzword. Its worse now because it happens more quickly and is like industry-wide (including major companies that normally wouldn't operate like that), whereas in the past it would take a bit as one company finds success with it and others try to mimic. Actually this more reeks of it being the middle manager asswipes that have been put in charge of most places going "AI's huge" and slapping it on everything regardless of it making any sense whatsoever.

This happens constantly in audio for instance. Not that long ago, the audio industry officially recognized "Hi-Res" as an official term and every single company subsequently slapped a Hi-Res sticker on their stuff, nevermind "Hi-Res" products had existed for literally decades already. Dolby has pimped out Atmos so hard that it is in everything from like sub $50 mono speakers and earbuds all the way up. Plus they're paying record companies to force artists to make Atmos versions of their music. The industry tried the same thing with MQA (which really was just the latest in their long line of attempts at DRM). Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed that Dolby didn't call their push as "Atmos Integrated" to be able to cash in on AI. But then we'll probably have someone make an "AI" device that's just a tube pre-amp for vinyl and think they're being snarky by calling it "Analogue Intelligence".
Still waiting for someone to tell me what 'Wi-Fi' stands for.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
71,731
31,675
136
Anandtech front page has article about an upcoming SSD with "on-device AI". Is it going to read my files and generate new ones for me, add extra bytes?
 

dr1337

Senior member
May 25, 2020
449
731
136
I feel like people who are mad at AI for hallucinating and being unreliable aren't really 1:1 with tech. Its just like the internet, in fact they're all trained on the internet. You cannot take what results you get at face value, its all about your prompt and how you interpret the results.

Why would any expect an internet aggregator to be perfect? You aren't supposed to use google to get direct answers to things, its a tool for doing research.

Lately I've been making extensive use of AI in my work and its actually incredible what arguing with a bot can do for you. A bots hallucination might be worthless to one person, but absolutely inspiring to another. I've been really applying LLMs to help solve big hard problems and their ability to give me new leads is simply amazing. A lot of people are really sleeping on using LLMs as a tool, and instead they just want it to be a correct answer machine.

Not to say that idea is without merit, it would be nice if LLMs were always right. But in the same vein AI right now is like a hammer, compared to its ideal, a nail gun. Just because it takes more skill to use doesn't mean it isn't useful, nor does it mean there isn't a future where AI actually does make everyone happy. All tech needs iteration, duh.

I feel like I should also mention, that corporate controlled AI, services like chatGPT, are lame and I literally have never used one. I only run local models, and lately I've been using Llama 3.1. Which yes is made by facebook and you can kinda tell in the way it talks which is funny. But its still free, still local, and still useful.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
49,837
6,182
136
I feel like people who are mad at AI for hallucinating and being unreliable aren't really 1:1 with tech. Its just like the internet, in fact they're all trained on the internet. You cannot take what results you get at face value, its all about your prompt and how you interpret the results.

Why would any expect an internet aggregator to be perfect? You aren't supposed to use google to get direct answers to things, its a tool for doing research.

Lately I've been making extensive use of AI in my work and its actually incredible what arguing with a bot can do for you. A bots hallucination might be worthless to one person, but absolutely inspiring to another. I've been really applying LLMs to help solve big hard problems and their ability to give me new leads is simply amazing. A lot of people are really sleeping on using LLMs as a tool, and instead they just want it to be a correct answer machine.

Not to say that idea is without merit, it would be nice if LLMs were always right. But in the same vein AI right now is like a hammer, compared to its ideal, a nail gun. Just because it takes more skill to use doesn't mean it isn't useful, nor does it mean there isn't a future where AI actually does make everyone happy. All tech needs iteration, duh.

I feel like I should also mention, that corporate controlled AI, services like chatGPT, are lame and I literally have never used one. I only run local models, and lately I've been using Llama 3.1. Which yes is made by facebook and you can kinda tell in the way it talks which is funny. But its still free, still local, and still useful.

There are so many uses...like, why use Google when you can just use Perplexity?


I do free-word association as a foundational tool of my writing. With AI, generating topic leads is, like you said, just a SUPER incredible resource:

How to write an essay

Iteration or "rotating the carousel" is at the heart of my creativity system; AI is just so fantastic for quickly diving into things!

How to be creative

AI isn't magic; it's more like upgrading from sneaker-walking to a Ferrari...both get you there, one juts makes it eaiser & faster!
 

marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
946
1,263
96
The last decade of ML has been driven by scaling transformer models bigger. This was enabled by

1) hardware improvements
2) training in lower precision

Both are now hitting a wall. We need new architectures (modular) and methods (decentralized training) to scale further.


AI hardware about to hit scaling limits


We first study the common technique of post-train quantizing model weights, finding that the longer you train/the more data seen during pretraining, the more sensitive the model becomes to quantization at inference-time, explaining why Llama-3 may be harder to quantize. In fact, this loss degradation is roughly a power law in the token/parameter ratio seen during pretraining, so that you can predict in advance the critical data size beyond which pretraining on more data is actively harmful if you're serving a quantized model. The intuition might be that as more knowledge is compressed into weights as you train on more data, a given perturbation will damage performance more. Below is a fixed language model overtrained significantly to various data budgets up to 30B tokens, then post-train quantized afterwards. This demonstrates how more pretraining FLOPs do not always lead to better models served in production.
Click to expand...

If the above is true, we are close to optimal now. With this, there are only three ways forward ...

  1. Scaling data centers: This still scales for ~2 years.
  2. Scaling through dynamics: Route to smaller specialized models or larger/smaller models.
  3. Knowledge distillation: distillation behaves differently than other techniques and might have different properties.

the paradigm will soon shift from scaling to "what can we do with what we have". the paradigm of "how do we help people be more productive with AI" is the best mindset forward. This mindset is about processes and people rather than technology.

https://x.com/Tim_Dettmers/status/1856338255408517388
 
Reactions: Kaido

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,331
6,348
136
I wanted to transcribe an mp3 so I asked co-pilot (work) if it could help, to which it replied it would gladly help. When I tried uploading the file, it doesn't support mp3. Then I tried the regular co-pilot (web) and it correctly said it doesn't support mp3, but I could try google docs or some other app. Then I tried to ask if Microsoft has a tool, and sure I could upload the MP3 in word and use a transcription feature (which transcribed 1:40 of a 32:00 min mp3).

So maybe I don't know to prompt correctly, but if this is the level of AI, then I don't regret cancelling my subscription to co-pilot.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
49,837
6,182
136
I wanted to transcribe an mp3 so I asked co-pilot (work) if it could help, to which it replied it would gladly help. When I tried uploading the file, it doesn't support mp3. Then I tried the regular co-pilot (web) and it correctly said it doesn't support mp3, but I could try google docs or some other app. Then I tried to ask if Microsoft has a tool, and sure I could upload the MP3 in word and use a transcription feature (which transcribed 1:40 of a 32:00 min mp3).

So maybe I don't know to prompt correctly, but if this is the level of AI, then I don't regret cancelling my subscription to co-pilot.

 
Reactions: biostud
Mar 11, 2004
23,442
5,842
146
I feel like people who are mad at AI for hallucinating and being unreliable aren't really 1:1 with tech. Its just like the internet, in fact they're all trained on the internet. You cannot take what results you get at face value, its all about your prompt and how you interpret the results.

Why would any expect an internet aggregator to be perfect? You aren't supposed to use google to get direct answers to things, its a tool for doing research.

Lately I've been making extensive use of AI in my work and its actually incredible what arguing with a bot can do for you. A bots hallucination might be worthless to one person, but absolutely inspiring to another. I've been really applying LLMs to help solve big hard problems and their ability to give me new leads is simply amazing. A lot of people are really sleeping on using LLMs as a tool, and instead they just want it to be a correct answer machine.

Not to say that idea is without merit, it would be nice if LLMs were always right. But in the same vein AI right now is like a hammer, compared to its ideal, a nail gun. Just because it takes more skill to use doesn't mean it isn't useful, nor does it mean there isn't a future where AI actually does make everyone happy. All tech needs iteration, duh.

I feel like I should also mention, that corporate controlled AI, services like chatGPT, are lame and I literally have never used one. I only run local models, and lately I've been using Llama 3.1. Which yes is made by facebook and you can kinda tell in the way it talks which is funny. But its still free, still local, and still useful.

People aren't mad because its hallucinating, that's basically the only positive of this shit. People are mad because the industry is trying to pretend like they can just handwaive away hallucinations and other limitations as though its "iteration, duh", despite it having hard limits (they're already running out of stuff to train it on so they're resorting to training it on the fucked up hallucinations and other BS shit these are spewing out). Further, this stuff is being used in literal life and death matters, from healthcare (not for diagnosing, but rather for denying coverage by insurance companies), or housing and other that is leading to real world harm for human beings. That is happening now.

I feel like people that think people are mad about AI for dumbass Google answers aren't being 1:1 with tech, or reality for that matter. Most likely its more willfull delusions though. Did you miss how Techbros are writing manifestos declaring that people that aren't just "max AI ASAP" are murderers? Or them salivating over using it to enforce literal worse than Nazi fascist states? Cause that's pretty fucked up stuff that is also actually happening.

Well you certainly won't get direct answers from Google because they ruined their search engine deliberately to prevent you from finding what you're actually looking for (they were doing that before AI even though), but I digress.

You're not solving any "big hard problems" (unless you've got a giant dick and are using it to beat off instead of raping people or something) with your LLMs if having stupid fucked up conversations with chatbots is blowing your mind so much. I'd say I'd be curious what problems you're supposedly solving, but honestly you sound like every other AI Evangelist and Crypto Messiah believer, which all just sound like teenagers that just discovered weed (or probably more Joe Rogan and Ayahuasca), and I have no interest in arguing with people that pretend they're really open minded when its having the opposite affect. I'm getting strong vibes of the guy on here that within I think a literal week went from having no clue about crypto currency to declaring that it would solve all the worlds problems including world hunger, that then got upset when his astounding business idea wouldn't work if he had to charge people sales tax when selling them things.

What in the fuck? So all corporate LLMs are lame and you've never used one, except for the one you then literally next sentence admit to using? What in the hell? You have to be an AI bot with that level of logic. Just because you're limiting yourself to that version instead of paying for access to their latest BS machine doesn't mean you're not still using their corporate controlled BS machine. Sounds more like sour grapes that you can't afford access than that you actually are opposed to anything with regards to whatever you're trying to make the negative connotation to "corporate controlled".

Can I interest you in some Hawk-tuah cryptocurrency? You can have mindblowing experiences chatting with it, though you will have to use your brain to develop some original thoughts instead of relying on a chatbot to diarrhea them out.
 
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