The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

30k to 40k to 36k. WHEW. And I was just gonna say that sticking at around 30k for a while might actually encourage people to use crypto as a currency.

This has been a crazy day. One (1) Amazon job posting causes damn near all cryptos to jump up 15%, but there were so many damn rumors flying. Amazon's gonna accept bitcoin soon! Short squeeze imminent! Peeps are dumping Tether (based on another rumor of them about to be charged with bank fraud) for Bitcoin! I can't keep it straight.

And then Amazon has to pour water over the fire when it was getting fun.

Seriously, though, I'm gonna be shocked if anything comes of it. It's one position and crypto projects have an amazing success rate of damn near zero percent. Maybe Amazon can pull a rabbit out of their hat, but big corporations like Microsoft, IBM and Facebook all played with crypto before and either saw it peter out (MS and IBM) or saw it blow up in their face (Facebook's Libra).

- Amazon has what MS and IBM don't however: a marketplace that damn near everyone buys from. People are already primed for loading their GCs to their amazon wallet as well as buying "digital tokens" with a weird exchange rate on other platforms (various digital game stores etc come to mind).

I think Amazon will be the real test of crypto: if they can't make it work to perform the most basic function of a currency, then crypto is well and truly dead as a form of payment.

The question really comes down to: what will a digital currency do for Amazon that good ole fashioned greenbacks don't already, aside from add another layer between the customer's money and the products on their shelves?

 

[blckgrffn]

- Amazon has what MS and IBM don't however: a marketplace that damn near everyone buys from. People are already primed for loading their GCs to their amazon wallet as well as buying "digital tokens" with a weird exchange rate on other platforms (various digital game stores etc come to mind).

I think Amazon will be the real test of crypto: if they can't make it work to perform the most basic function of a currency, then crypto is well and truly dead as a form of payment.

The question really comes down to: what will a digital currency do for Amazon that good ole fashioned greenbacks don't already, aside from add another layer between the customer's money and the products on their shelves?

It's like buying Starbucks GC's. Basically locking in money.

Tokenizing purchases to further lower perceptions of cost ($100?!? only 27 Amazon coins!) AND (get 10% back when using Amazon Coin! Save 5% upfront for Prime Members! Never redeemable for dollars!). Increasing the perceived difficulty of purchasing at other vendors. (What, don't accept Amazon Coin? But that's all I use online because reasons! I'll go back to Amazon.)

(takes out soapbox, steps up)

Frankly, as an ecommerce industry member, Amazon is past the point of needing to be broken up as they strangle retail sales. Letting them move to their own money for their multi trillion dollar/doge coin business would be insanely damaging to the long term marketplace. I don't know if it would even be possible to separate the hyperbole from the real concerns because it could be crazy, like Amazon becoming some sort of nation state using it's own monetary policy to browbeat states and politicians alike.

(carefully puts soapbox back in it's engraved carrying case, ready for future use)

 

[Leeea]

I think Amazon will be the real test of crypto: if they can't make it work to perform the most basic function of a currency, then crypto is well and truly dead as a form of payment.

It is no different from the amazon gift card program they already have.

Frankly, as an ecommerce industry member, Amazon is past the point of needing to be broken up as they strangle retail sales.

It is not that Amazon is good, it is that retail is horribly awful. Self check out? Wait in line to check out? The cheapest chinesium ever made? Clothing that is only made for perfect people? Rude staff? That is retail.

Yea, Amazon is a roll of the dice with the counterfeiters, the used re-boxers, and etc. But walmart? It will not be counterfeit, but it is 100% chinese crap 100% of the time. They make some good high quality items in China, but you will never find them in walmart. Walmart is just as evil as Amazon also, so as far as I am concerned retail is dead.

The retail everyone liked died long ago.

 

[blckgrffn]

It is no different from the amazon gift card program they already have.

It is not that Amazon is good, it is that retail is horribly awful. Self check out? Wait in line to check out? The cheapest chinesium ever made? Clothing that is only made for perfect people? Rude staff? That is retail.

With the exception of the grocery store, retail can die in a fire.

Online retail. Walmart and a dwindling list of big box retailers already daggered retail IRL in the United States. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Actually WalMart appears to have taken their promise of more US goods in stores seriously. Mine has had at least some US made stuff.
Travel grill kit I got was made in USA. More expensive than the other kits but not by much.
Dog US made dog food is possible to find and I am not talking about the suspicious sounding “Product of X Companies in Milwaukee”.
I mean “Crafted in US facilities with North America Ingredients”.
Some shorts I bought for vacation. Admittedly Cotton from India but made in Virginia (or North Carolina I forgot)
Overall Walmart has done something.

Back to Amazon. I like Amazon and I do feel they take too much crap for what they do.
I suspect the job posting is just to test an idea not really a market dominating plan.
Think of how wonderful for Amazon it would be if there was some sort of digital coin people could use for purchases at amazon or Whole Foods or Amazon physical stores. Less cash to handle which is a huge problem, lower credit card company transaction fees and the ability to say to consumers transfer x% of your paycheck to purchase stuff at the above retailers. Get 3% more with automatic deductions!

 

[blckgrffn]

Think of how wonderful for Amazon it would be if there was some sort of digital coin people could use for purchases at amazon or Whole Foods or Amazon physical stores. Less cash to handle which is a huge problem, lower credit card company transaction fees and the ability to say to consumers transfer x% of your paycheck to purchase stuff at the above retailers. Get 3% more with automatic deductions!

That's like some (even worse than current trajectory) dystopian future in my mind.

Amazon is absolutely terrible to their vendors, partners, and by many accounts wide swaths of their staff (what mega corp isn't, really?) They side step tons of regulations (imperfect as they are, the idea is they at least try protect workers. At worst if everyone complies it levels the playing field) with their "gig" type workers. They sell tons of knock off crap and counterfeit goods. I could go on but that's pretty divergent.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's like some (even worse than current trajectory) dystopian future in my mind.

Amazon is absolutely terrible to their vendors, partners, and by many accounts wide swaths of their staff (what mega corp isn't, really?) They side step tons of regulations (imperfect as they are, the idea is they at least try protect workers. At worst if everyone complies it levels the playing field) with their "gig" type workers. They sell tons of knock off crap and counterfeit goods. I could go on but that's pretty divergent.

Well yeah the coin as I described sound an awful lot like the company “Store” big factories used to have. I certainly wouldn’t opt into that.
Again tons of big businesses do deplorable things, I feel amazon gets more crap than they deserve.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The question really comes down to: what will a digital currency do for Amazon that good ole fashioned greenbacks don't already, aside from add another layer between the customer's money and the products on their shelves?

I was thinking about this a bit, and PrimeCoin(tm), wouldn't be much different than those arcades in the 80s, which ran on tokens, and you had to put your cold, hard, cash into a token-dispensing machine to get them (NO cash refunds!).

 

[ultimatebob]

I was thinking about this a bit, and PrimeCoin(tm), wouldn't be much different than those arcades in the 80s, which ran on tokens, and you had to put your cold, hard, cash into a token-dispensing machine to get them (NO cash refunds!).

The difference being that Amazon Prime members will probably get a small discount for buying stuff with PrimeCoin because it cuts the credit card processors out of the loop.

I'd imagine that they'll also become the de facto currency for things like loyality programs and survey rewards, much like Amazon Gift Cards already are.

 

[Viper GTS]

Because they don't have any way to dodge credit card processing fees today?

Reload Your Balance (amazon.com)

Is Amazon Prime Reload a good deal? - CNET

Also, for heavy amazon users I'd bet they are paying WAY under market rates for processing fees via the Chase Amazon card.

Viper GTS

 

[blckgrffn]

Because they don't have any way to dodge credit card processing fees today?

Reload Your Balance (amazon.com)

Viper GTS

Is that tied to a bank account for ACH or something? Otherwise you are still getting hit for the fees.

Same as "prime coin" but I can see them giving you 1% bonus or something for bank transfers since that's way lower than the CC fees.

They must already have a payment processor themselves or have a couple under their thumb with as much processing as they do. It is safe to say they pay much lower rates than the rest of us.

 

[Viper GTS]

I added a link with more info since it isn't immediately obvious direct on Amazon's site HOWEVER - The reason it wasn't obvious is because apparently it ends tomorrow:

No More 2% Prime Reloads On Amazon With A Debit Card (milestomemories.com)

I suspect the number of people actually using it was near zero given the Chase Amazon card exists.

Viper GTS

 

[beginner99]

I think Amazon will be the real test of crypto: if they can't make it work to perform the most basic function of a currency, then crypto is well and truly dead as a form of payment.

The core usage of blockchain in case of Ethereum is actually not a form of payment, well ETH is how you pay for calculations on the Ethereum network/blockchain. But it's not meant to replace say fiat or credit cards.

Here is the quote from Mr. Ethereum himself (vitalik buterin)

Whereas most technologies tend to automate workers on the periphery doing menial tasks, blockchains automate away the center. Instead of putting the taxi driver out of a job, blockchain puts Uber out of a job and lets the taxi drivers work with the customer directly

 

[Mopetar]

You do realize, that miners bought laptops for mining and it didn't even made a dent in laptop supplies?

You know why? Because the shortage is not caused by miners, but by incredible consumer demand. Desktop DIY got roughly 10% of all of manufactured products, everything else went directly to OEMs and large clients.

Its consumers, themselves who caused this shortage, and inflated prices. Mining helped, but not by the amount they should be blamed.

Laptops don't cost 200% (or more) of MSRP right now so I don't think the argument you make is quite so cut and dry.

While what you're saying is true to a degree, it would require a lot of data and analysis of that data to support in favor of other reasons.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

I don't see AmazonCoin making any kind of sense. It's just- Amazon's model is about as centralized as they can get. Why on earth would they switch to a crypto when they already damn near control the retail ecosystem already? It's like their gift cards, but several hundred times less efficient for no gain.

My bet is they're looking long-term at potentially accepting cryptos (and exchanging those cryptos for dollars after charging a decent fee).

 

[moonbogg]

3080Tis are still $2000. Just thought I'd let you guys know.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

3080Tis are still $2000. Just thought I'd let you guys know.

-Phew, was worried this solved thread had sorted that all out...

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's like their gift cards, but several hundred times less efficient for no gain.

Actually, compared to a gift card, it might be loads more-efficient, especially if they have oracles for atomic swaps with public blockchains. One of the "killer apps" of public blockchains is linking together numerous private ones.

 

[ultimatebob]

I'm still bummed that my Dogecoin holdings didn't make me wealthy yet. Curse you, Elon Musk!

 

[Ninjak]

Some claim that cryptocurrency has no practical use, but that's just wrong. It's a great way to hedge against GPU price increases. Let's say I want to build a new gaming PC two years from now. I don't know what the price of ETH will be in two years, but chances are if it's low then GPU prices will be low, if it's high then GPU prices will be high. So I can "lock in" today's price level and not have to worry if ETH goes to 1 million and GPUs require a 30 year mortgage.

 

[beginner99]

Some claim that cryptocurrency has no practical use, but that's just wrong. It's a great way to hedge against GPU price increases. Let's say I want to build a new gaming PC two years from now. I don't know what the price of ETH will be in two years, but chances are if it's low then GPU prices will be low, if it's high then GPU prices will be high. So I can "lock in" today's price level and not have to worry if ETH goes to 1 million and GPUs require a 30 year mortgage.

Don't worry, in 2 years mining ETH is dead as it will have moved to proof of stake and doesn't require GPUs anymore.

 

[Stuka87]

Don't worry, in 2 years mining ETH is dead as it will have moved to proof of stake and doesn't require GPUs anymore.

At which point some new crypto will show up.

 

[DrMrLordX]

At which point some new crypto will show up.

Many new projects are already adopting Proof of Stake out of the gate. It's one of the things that must be done to garner interest. Believe it or not, PoW/mining is not very popular with blockchain enthusiasts anymore. Yes, miners can switch to ETC, but profits on that chain will be overall lower, especially with an introduction of a massive amount of new hashing power.

 

[biostud]

As a private person I don't really understand the need for cryptocurrency when I already have a very stable currency and lots of different low cost and straightforward ways to pay. Why would I be interested in first buying "coins" and the buy stuff afterwards?

I understand the use if you want untraceable transactions or using it as an investment/gambling project, but otherwise?

 

[Qwertilot]

As a private person I don't really understand the need for cryptocurrency when I already have a very stable currency and lots of different low cost and straightforward ways to pay. Why would I be interested in first buying "coins" and the buy stuff afterwards?

I understand the use if you want untraceable transactions or using it as an investment/gambling project, but otherwise?

The distributed ledger ideas can be genuinely useful in a few circumstances, although they're obviously rather tangential to the coins.