The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[ultimatebob]

You have any articles on cypto's protocols themselves actually being "cracked" or "broken"? I'm not aware of any thefts occurring with, say, a cold wallet. Not your keys, not your crypto.

Usually, what happens is that the crypto exchanges get hacked (or "hacked", if it's a crooked exchange) and crypto disappears from people's accounts. If you're leaving a large sum of crypto in an exchange account, you're a moron.

 

[beginner99]

They are backed by the US Gov & typically protected by FDIC insurance of up to $250k. The bank can’t “go out of business and keep all your money”
Crypto has none of these protections.

Crypto can't go out of business because there is no business behind it. Decentralization. That is the core point.

I have asked several times and haven’t had a good answer yet (maybe one see below).
What does Crypto do better than normal currency?
What is the point of Crypto?

Besides the obvious stuff of decentralization and having a public ledger everyone can see and analyze (wonder why politicians don't like crypto? that is your answer), i let Mr Ethereum himself explain it to you (note: this quote is in this thread already, probably multiple times);

Whereas most technologies tend to automate workers on the periphery doing menial tasks, blockchains automate away the center. Instead of putting the taxi driver out of a job, blockchain puts Uber out of a job and lets the taxi drivers work with the customer directly.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Crypto can't go out of business because there is no business behind it. Decentralization. That is the core point.



Besides the obvious stuff of decentralization and having a public ledger everyone can see and analyze (wonder why politicians don't like crypto? that is your answer), i let Mr Ethereum himself explain it to you (note: this quote is in this thread already, probably multiple times);

Whereas most technologies tend to automate workers on the periphery doing menial tasks, blockchains automate away the center. Instead of putting the taxi driver out of a job, blockchain puts Uber out of a job and lets the taxi drivers work with the customer directly.

Crypro can be stolen and manipulated it has happened several times now in my opinion that is the same as "going out of business"

The bolded point is terrifying. No Uber to vet who the hell drives a car or what insurance they carry or if they have a criminal record of assulting people. No thanks.
Also jobs as described typically require some sort of licensure. How will crypto solve that? Does giving the Uber driver 3% more due to credit card fees really change anything?

 

[nurturedhate]

Whereas most technologies tend to automate workers on the periphery doing menial tasks, blockchains automate away the center. Instead of putting the taxi driver out of a job, blockchain puts Uber out of a job and lets the taxi drivers work with the customer directly.

Let's break this down. The customer needs a way to contact the taxi driver. The customer needs a way to transfer payment for good/services rendered to the taxi driver. The taxi driver needs a system that ensures the customer does indeed pay and needs protection from customers that don't. The customer needs a way to ensure the taxi driver is also trustworthy. Congrats you have now created NotUber where crypto is exchanged instead of $. This stuff isn't hard to figure out.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Let's break this down. The customer needs a way to contact the taxi driver. The customer needs a way to transfer payment for good/services rendered to the taxi driver. The taxi driver needs a system that ensures the customer does indeed pay and needs protection from customers that don't. The customer needs a way to ensure the taxi driver is also trustworthy. Congrats you have now created NotUber where crypto is exchanged instead of $. This stuff isn't hard to figure out.

So what does Crypto do that I couldn't do otherwise.
In the example given above currently Uber does all the customer acquisition which is the hard part for someone starting their own business. NotUber is going to rely on Crypto, how many people understand how to do this in a big city? I am going to guess maybe 100. NotUber has a potential client base of 100. 80 of which have no use for a NotUber service. 20 legit real customer potential that need a total of 150 rides that month. Uber outspends NotUber one million to one. Uber captures the majority of the business.
This doesn't sound like a great business plan to me.
Again the example given doesn;t show what Crypto can do that is better than what already exists. Everything given in that example can happen now with credit and/or debit cards, advertising can be handled by Facebook cheaply, credit processing can be handled by a bank for a small fee.

 

[nurturedhate]

So what does Crypto do that I couldn't do otherwise.
In the example given above currently Uber does all the customer acquisition which is the hard part for someone starting their own business. NotUber is going to rely on Crypto, how many people understand how to do this in a big city? I am going to guess maybe 100. NotUber has a potential client base of 100. 80 of which have no use for a NotUber service. 20 legit real customer potential that need a total of 150 rides that month. Uber outspends NotUber one million to one. Uber captures the majority of the business.
This doesn't sound like a great business plan to me.
Again the example given doesn;t show what Crypto can do that is better than what already exists. Everything given in that example can happen now with credit and/or debit cards, advertising can be handled by Facebook cheaply, credit processing can be handled by a bank for a small fee.

We're in agreement here. In the end NotUber is just Uber with a different name accepting a different currency as payment. Nothing has changed. May as well have a conversation on why we don't all use Mytaxi and pay in euros. Maybe the issue is I'm not running a company named TaxiBase and people can pay for taxi services in TaxiCoin. The drivers can also be paid in TaxiCoin. We'll even call our payment service/app Scrip. It has a nice ring to it.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

You are not held liable for fraudulent transactions. Maybe you could be held liable for the first $50 but I have yet to hear of a credit company or bank that enforced that. Not worth the bad press over fifty dollars.

Can't speak for the US, but I have heard of a couple of cases here. But those where really (as in really) gross negligence on the card holders part.

But then, we have a unique national debit card system in place (somewhat ironically US owned). So credit cards are not that widely used here.

 

[Mopetar]

You really want a landslide of articles on crypto being stolen, extorted, fleeced or scammed don't you...

Crypro can be stolen and manipulated it has happened several times now in my opinion that is the same as "going out of business"

All of the big thefts I'm aware of happened because people moved off of the public ledger and into something akin to a bank which kept its own books. Of course it wasn't a real bank so it didn't have to follow any actual banking regulations. Is it any wonder that people got robbed?

Any manipulation in crypto prices is no different than stocks which people have been doing for ages. Once again the only difference is that there really aren't regulations in place for crypto and people can get away with more than they normally could.

The need for crypto isn't all that great in the West where we're generally free and the government doesn't go out of its way to clamp down on its citizens. That isn't as true in other parts of the world and that makes crypto as vital as something like TOR if you want any actual freedom.

 

[beginner99]

Let's break this down. The customer needs a way to contact the taxi driver. The customer needs a way to transfer payment for good/services rendered to the taxi driver. The taxi driver needs a system that ensures the customer does indeed pay and needs protection from customers that don't. The customer needs a way to ensure the taxi driver is also trustworthy. Congrats you have now created NotUber where crypto is exchanged instead of $. This stuff isn't hard to figure out.

Instead of reducing number of taxi drivers by replacing them with self-driving car, a dApp will replace most of Uber employees and bureaucracy but not all of it. Someone needs to make the dApp which can do what Uber app does includign rating drivers / customers. but the amount of people needed for creating this app is a tiny fraction as the dApp runs on the blockchain. You don't need any own servers or AWS or whatever and don't need to invest billions in replacing your drivers. Crypto isn't just paying. You also have smart contracts (eg programming).

Why does this help? The actual worker (=taxi driver) will get a much bigger piece of the overall price you pay will also making it cheaper.

 

[beginner99]

The need for crypto isn't all that great in the West where we're generally free and the government doesn't go out of its way to clamp down on its citizens.

Already forgot the protests? The US governments absolutely clamps down it's citizens. But only if it needs to. But since more and more people have less and less to lose, I do not see a very bright future. many young men with nothing to loose is a core indicator of an upcoming (civil) war.
Maybe I'm a pessimist but we will get more and more regulated and controlled. Like in China. Thought police, social credit etc. It's better to stop this in it's track and adopt crypto now than to regret not having done so.

 

[gdansk]

Graphics cards?

 

[moonbogg]

Graphics cards?

Negative. Maybe in 2023.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

Already forgot the protests? The US governments absolutely clamps down it's citizens. But only if it needs to. But since more and more people have less and less to lose, I do not see a very bright future. many young men with nothing to loose is a core indicator of an upcoming (civil) war.
Maybe I'm a pessimist but we will get more and more regulated and controlled. Like in China. Thought police, social credit etc. It's better to stop this in it's track and adopt crypto now than to regret not having done so.

How the hell does a crypto stop any of that?

 

[Ajay]

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed...

 

[bigboxes]

How the hell does a crypto stop any of that?

It doesn't. The miners are all high thinking that their selfish activities are a boon for mankind.

 

[BFG10K]

Do you think a bank has the complete value of all their customers accounts stashed in cash somewhere?

No need because cash (paper money) has intrinsic value. It has value because the government said so. Government !=Internet.

The cash stuffed under my pillow has the same value as if it were electronically loaded in my account. The bank doesn't need to track anything to maintain said value.

Crypto can't go out of business because there is no business behind it.

Utter nonsense. Squid Game Crypto went out of business.

All Crypto is a ponzi scheme with a few powerful people at the top pulling the strings to maintain their investment value. The masses are allowed to fight over the delusion of "freedom" with the leftover scraps from the bottom of the pyramid.

You think you can sell it to fiat, but that's the small dangling carrot if they allow it. Witness how every time Ethereum crashes, the exchanges somehow all develop "system problems" in unison to prevent sellout. Cartel financial collusion at its finest.

 

[Mopetar]

Already forgot the protests? The US governments absolutely clamps down it's citizens.

Maybe there's an argument that the West is drifting more towards China's direction than it's holding still or moving away from that, but there's a rather stark difference. For all people want to argue about fake news, etc. the government doesn't do much of anything to stop people from engaging in discussion about whatever they want. Trying to do the same in China is not possible for the average person to do without some special knowledge or software and doing it out in public is getting you a trip to jail.

You think you can sell it to fiat, but that's the small dangling carrot if they allow it. Witness how every time Ethereum crashes, the exchanges somehow all develop "system problems" in unison to prevent sellout. Cartel financial collusion at its finest.

Probably because the exchanges aren't built to handle that kind of volume, just like hospitals can't handle everyone getting sick at once, or your local grocery store being unable to cope with everyone thinking they need to stock up on toilet paper at the same time. But that's besides the point. If the stock market starts to see that kind of rapid decline it gets shut down by official decree to prevent the same kind of behavior. How is that effectively any different?

The notion that all crypto is a scam because of one instance is as ludicrous as pointing to the failure of the Zimbabwean dollar as some kind of evidence that fiat currency is some kind of Ponzi scheme. The only unique facet of a cryptocurrency is the decentralized nature that does not require a traditional central banking system. Other than that it's subject to the same economic principles as any other commodity. Of course since it's rather new and mysterious to many people and exists somewhat outside of existing financial regulations it's a market ripe for fraud or exploitation. Personally I think it makes a great example for why we have the kinds of regulations that we do in place since most people never had to live in a world without them and can't easily understand why they came into being.

But rather than understanding any of this it's just far easier to deride or dismiss it. At what point in time does the argument that it's a Ponzi scheme or just instance of tulip mania fall flat in your mind? Would you still cling to this notion decades from now as crypto continues to exist?

 

[sandorski]

Somewhat Off Topic: Crypto-Bots are currently working overtime trying to get people to buy Crypto on the High.

 

[Dribble]

Can't believe that someone in COP26 isn't going to bring up the massive waste of money and resources that crypto causes. As goverments aren't taxing it, and the companies that do pay tax (e.g. car manufacturers) are hit buy it then crypto is an obvious and easy target. I can well see some agreement to significantly limit it being announced as looks good and doesn't cost them anything.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

The notion that all crypto is a scam because of one instance is as ludicrous as pointing to the failure of the Zimbabwean dollar as some kind of evidence that fiat currency is some kind of Ponzi scheme. The only unique facet of a cryptocurrency is the decentralized nature that does not require a traditional central banking system. Other than that it's subject to the same economic principles as any other commodity. Of course since it's rather new and mysterious to many people and exists somewhat outside of existing financial regulations it's a market ripe for fraud or exploitation. Personally I think it makes a great example for why we have the kinds of regulations that we do in place since most people never had to live in a world without them and can't easily understand why they came into being.

But rather than understanding any of this it's just far easier to deride or dismiss it. At what point in time does the argument that it's a Ponzi scheme or just instance of tulip mania fall flat in your mind? Would you still cling to this notion decades from now as crypto continues to exist?

How is crypto ever young? The thing's thirteen years old at this point. We're thirteen years in and all of the use cases are either entirely theoretical (last I asked for use cases, I was told to sift through a thread from 2016) or are extremely niche with MASSIVE dark sides.

Sure, there's probably some people in repressive states using crypto to dodge sanctions... But those same states use crypto to dodge sanctions as well.
Sure, it can be used to hide transactions from the government... But that also has made ransomware explode into a multi-billion industry .

Do you think there's anything concrete behind crypto? As far as I can see, it's wild hype mixed with a lot of bad actors taking advantage of the suckers. Howe long did it take for Madoff's scam to get exposed?

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if decades from now the dumb thing will still be around, it will still have barely any adoption and it will still have people insisting it's still new. I said it before, but crypto's greatest asset is how obtuse, awkward and useless it is. Since it's never actually used for anything useful, no one actually touches it and sees the problems with the entire thing.

 

[beginner99]

No need because cash (paper money) has intrinsic value. It has value because the government said so. Government !=Internet.

The cash stuffed under my pillow has the same value as if it were electronically loaded in my account. The bank doesn't need to track anything to maintain said value.

Yeah, you obviously never heard about hyperinflation. Your money under the pillow will have more value as firewood within hours. currency only has value as long as people believe in it or their government and the economy is somewhat running ok.

Utter nonsense. Squid Game Crypto went out of business.

No, you can go and buy it but that would be even more stupid than buying it 4 days ago. There are idiots everywhere and even the main crypto pricing site (coinmarketcap) had a huge banner telling people this was a scam. You had to be really, really stupid to buy it like buying that ultra rare rolex for cheap from some dude at a random gas stop stupid.

All Crypto is a ponzi scheme with a few powerful people at the top pulling the strings to maintain their investment value. The masses are allowed to fight over the delusion of "freedom" with the leftover scraps from the bottom of the pyramid.

You think you can sell it to fiat, but that's the small dangling carrot if they allow it. Witness how every time Ethereum crashes, the exchanges somehow all develop "system problems" in unison to prevent sellout. Cartel financial collusion at its finest.

Well everybody that couldn't sell in May, is probably pretty happy now.

The one app notorious for developing system troubles is from traditional banking namley robinhood. Ever heard of gamestop? Yeah, scammers and criminals are everywhere not just in crypto.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Utter nonsense. Squid Game Crypto went out of business.

Must view. BTW, ignore his promo of "MillionToken", that's his own crypto.

 

[Icecold]

These numbers are rough, but from what I can tell these were the crypto prices of the top 3 on the date this original post was made, how much they are now and how much a $10,000 investment made on that day would be worth today-

Bitcoin - $36,776 on May 19th - $61,152.60 now - $10,000 invested on May 19th is $16,628 now
Ethereum - $2,458 on May 19th - $4489 now - $10,000 invested on May 19th is $18,261 now.
Cardano - $1.81 on May 19th - $1.97 now - $10,000 invested on May 19th is $10,884 now.

I'm not providing any commentary or opinion either way, just data.

 

[ozzy702]

These numbers are rough, but from what I can tell these were the crypto prices of the top 3 on the date this original post was made, how much they are now and how much a $10,000 investment made on that day would be worth today-

Bitcoin - $36,776 on May 19th - $61,152.60 now - $10,000 invested on May 19th is $16,628 now
Ethereum - $2,458 on May 19th - $4489 now - $10,000 invested on May 19th is $18,261 now.
Cardano - $1.81 on May 19th - $1.97 now - $10,000 invested on May 19th is $10,884 now.

I'm not providing any commentary or opinion either way, just data.

Like I said, weird looking collapse.

 

[Harry_Wild]

I was searching to upgrade my graphic card and my current card, a low profile 1050 ti 4 GDDR5 is around $100 more then I purchase it for 2 years ago, 60% increase. The next step 1650 is is a shocking $450-$500, $200 more then MSRP! I am go wait to get Intel’s Alchemist when it comes out if they release a low profile model, that is. Intel graphic's division is called Arc!