The anti-crypto thread

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DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
591
592
136
And it will go back up once the market realizes the Fed isn't raising rates.

Also I'm talking long term on this. The rest of the world is dumb, it may take them awhile to realize they need to do something.
Indeed, the price will go up because ???.

I'm surprised the rest of the world hasn't picked up on this wisdom.
 

bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
40,355
12,229
146
The endgame is for a crypto (doesn't have to be Bitcoin or Ethereum) to replace the $ as the world's reserve currency... when the rest of the world finally wakes up and realizes that letting the US money printer go bezerk is extremely bad fiscal policy for them.
Yeah, you're mining because you want to change the world. Or you're in on the largest Ponzi scheme in history. At some point the last man holding the worthless coins is stuck with their eventual crash. But sell while they have any value. There's a sucker born every minute.
 
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drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,419
206
116
Hard to do that at 7 transactions per second tbh
I'm far from an expert on this, but that number gets tossed around a lot and I don't see how that is possible. BTC is seeing $30B in trade volume a day. I don't imagine all of that goes into the blockchain, but even if you say each trade was one whole BTC, that is 750,000 trades a day. If my math is right, that is more that 7 transactions a second. (someone check my maths)

I transferred like $20 worth a few weeks ago. Took like 15-20mins to complete. When I looked at the transaction, mine was grouped in with 40 others in a larger block. I don't see how my piddly transfer could be done in 20 mins if the network could only do 7 a sec
 

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
591
592
136
I'm far from an expert on this, but that number gets tossed around a lot and I don't see how that is possible. BTC is seeing $30B in trade volume a day. I don't imagine all of that goes into the blockchain, but even if you say each trade was one whole BTC, that is 750,000 trades a day. If my math is right, that is more that 7 transactions a second. (someone check my maths)

I transferred like $20 worth a few weeks ago. Took like 15-20mins to complete. When I looked at the transaction, mine was grouped in with 40 others in a larger block. I don't see how my piddly transfer could be done in 20 mins if the network could only do 7 a sec
A lot of the trading of bitcoin happens off the chain on centralized exchanges.

The calculation itself is complicated as it's based on the size of the transactions that can fit in the 1MB blocks per each mined block. I am, frankly, bad@math but this link explains it fairly well.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,550
3,254
136
Market futures are up. Crypto is down. I hope to see the tech sector decouple itself from cryptocurrency as they shed risky volatile assets. This will drive crypto down further.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,039
11,641
136
And having crypto print money instead is better ?

Nobody can force anybody to use it (yet). If the market rejects "overprinted" projects or new projects on the basis that there is too much in circulation, that beats having a central bank that can inflate currency on a whim without anyone being able to say "no".

I hope to see the tech sector decouple itself from cryptocurrency as they shed risky volatile assets. This will drive crypto down further.

That doesn't even make any sense, but hey, good luck. Maybe Intel will cancel their risky, volatile Bitcoin miner hardware too.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,786
136
Nope, last year crypto doubled around this time frame. This is more like the crash in early 2018.

Last year it didn't drop because it was so low in the first place. There IS a mental floor and a ceiling to price.

Hard to do that at 7 transactions per second tbh

I don't know what they are doing with Bitcoin, but if they ever get there, Eth 2.0 should get that up to 1-10K. Rest will be fixed using Layer 2, but getting the base layer is a big thing. Of course the ambition around Ethereum is much larger, so there's that.

So it acts more like the stock market than a currency?

Yea it's an investment akin to Gold and Silver. The idea around cryptocurrencies is getting rid of the problems with centralization. So when the world situation is chaotic, it tends to go up. So it goes up when the population's confidence in the ruling party goes down. Explains why it shot up starting in 2020.

Of course, it doesn't mean it'll end up being better than what we have now, but that is the primary motivator.

but I'm not going to call for them to be made illegal, because what argument would I have when someone wants to make something that I enjoy illegal?

This. This. You do that and you open a whole can of worms. There should be LESS regulation of our lives by the government, not more!

If you allow trivial matters to be tried in the court of law, then that's the foot in the door to authoritarianism. One could argue it's already going in that direction.

I agree with the argument that crypto uses a lot of resources. However regulate even that aspect and you'd beg for the days when not being able to buy a GPU was your biggest worry in life! You think corporate greed is bad, but government greed will make it look pale in comparison.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,786
136
A good example of people misunderstanding things is that shorts crash the market.

First, the use of the term "crash" for maybe a 20% drop is a good example of a widespread hyperbole.

Second, as a person who are shorting you have a lot more to lose than you can gain. Unlike a trader or an investor that uses the money they already have, shorts borrow it. The maximum they can earn is equal to the (share price at the time of transaction) x (amount of shares). The amount they can lose is hypothetically infinite. If you send in a short order thinking it'll drop within a week, but the shares go by 10x, you'll lose that much.

hoping to be able to make a profit by buying them back at a price lower than the selling price.

You are dealing with real money here, so actual shorts put a target that's realistic rather than something stupid like $0. In essence, they provide the floor for how low the stock can go. In a way, they can be like an emergency brake for an elevator.

What gets the stock lower and lower is FOMO but in an opposite direction. Well, Fear. The people who believe in it start selling, and the "longs", the investors start selling. Sometimes it's just coincidence. There isn't a direct reason for everything folks!

The lesson here is that governments are mislead just like individuals. They investigated trying to find this short sale individual but found nothing. The president at the time responsible for the investigation later admitted governments can end up burning the barn to kill a single rat.

So be careful what you wish for. You may be angry, but they are just your emotions and yours alone. If that's done in a country level, and it's the wrong decision, millions even billions will get hurt.
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,231
1,605
136
A PC hardware/gaming hobby is driven by personal entertainment. The crypto hobby is driven by greed. Any extraneous enjoyment derived from it has its origins in greed.

Intolerance and preconceived opinions much? For example I run a monero node. This has close to 0 upside for me (only upside is I can connect my wallet to my own node which I now I can trust). I do it to support the network because privacy will become more and more important.

Which brings me to the next quote.

You KNOW, that if they make crypto illegal (in the USA), then of course, they will also regulate PCs WRT gaming, say, new laws limiting you to three hours of gaming per night, per person per household. Because environment and global warming. I can see them doing that, along with phasing out ICE engines, at around the same time.

Agree. I am against regulating every aspect of my personal life with new laws and forcing down ideologies ("green") by using laws because the tech simply doesn't hold up. More and more will get regulated ending up in a 1984 type world where you aren't allowed to turn off your smartphone which is anayzling everything you say.

tinfoil hat time:

Having said that, gaming won't be limited. Blocking mining and crypto is not about protecting the environment. Governments or better said the ones in power behind the curtains have been using global warming to push their own agendas. Note: I'm not saying it isn't happening, I'm saying they like the hype and use it to increase their power because they can use it to push all kinds of laws in their favor. And crypto is a huge threat to both governments and the ones in power. Gaming is no threat, it's beneficial. Better to keep Joe addicted to loot crates than have him protest in the streets for being squeezed dry.
Do we think the rich will suffer from coming power outages? No, they have the means to take according precautions with batteries and back generators. The whole thing is benefical to them because it will make energy and hence everything more expensive. Which means it makes us poorer and needing to work even more for them. Slavery 2.0.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,770
775
136
The point is that anyone who might argue that mining is somehow a waste of GPUs would have a difficult time justifying gaming. If someone's hobby is using GPUs for mining, folding, etc. it's no different. I like gaming as well and it's what I want to do with my time and my money. I just think I'd have a much more difficult justifying my own hobbies if I took the position that other people should have their own banned.



Suppose someone found mining and associated activities stress relieving or even just an enjoyable activity. Should their hobby or therapeutic activity be looked at any differently?

If they found mining to be therapeutic by process of psychological testing then yes, but since I doubt anyone has verified it (let alone tested it) I would say it is different, come back with that argument once it has been tested and verified. There are people who enjoy depriving others of entertainment or stress relief... that's miners for you.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,693
136
Agree. I am against regulating every aspect of my personal life with new laws and forcing down ideologies ("green") by using laws because the tech simply doesn't hold up. More and more will get regulated ending up in a 1984 type world where you aren't allowed to turn off your smartphone which is anayzling everything you say.

You're allowed to turn of your smartphone? /s

I afraid we're already there. 1984 is amateur level stuff compared to what's possible today. I don't think many realise just how much surveillance is going on right now. It's completely pervasive. About the only positive note is just how incompetent government bureaucracies are about actually using that information.

I could give a wealth of examples, but there just isn't space for it.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
A worldwide ban on mining is what's needed. Miners should be thrown in prison for a mandatory sentence of one year per GPU they have in their rigs and farms. I do mean thrown, as in literally.
Wow, you gonna toss Larry in there for mining with some old-ass dGPUs?

If Larry was in China or Kosovo, that's probably what would happen. His old ass GPU's would get sold at auction, and he would likely get a big fine.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,554
10,171
126
You use 6500XT's to heat your apt? Man I thought you had actually useful (to gamers) cards like 5700, 1660 etc...
LOL. Show me ONE "gamer", that actually WANTED a RX 5700 to just game on, and not mine. That was like the most totally overlooked card of that generation.

All the cool gamers, want 3000-series NVidia cards, for DLSS, and "RTX ON".
 
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