The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[Charmonium]

The "sell now" signal for me is the proliferation of "crypto funds" being advertised. It will be interesting to see how that pans out.

But considering how many people, especially boomers (at least the ones with investments), got a$$ raped by the 2008-9 crash, I'm thinking that only the hard core gamblers are going to put any significant (vis-a-vis total wealth) amount into these things. But it won't be the first time I haven't considered ALL of the relevant parameters.

 

[skyking]

This boomer sure as shit is not wandering into crypto at the very end of his career. I got it figured with the olde fashioned currency, stocks, bonds.

 

[Zorba]

TBH a tank would be pretty fun to have around my homestead property. Convert it into a dozer/excavator.

They seem to have trouble with mud, though.

 

[sandorski]

Come on AT Miners we could all chip in and buy our own t-72, or splurge a bit and get the t-80 for 250eth

We could probably take Graphics Cards by surprise!

 

[ultimatebob]

We could probably take Graphics Cards by surprise!

Wow... that guy actually invented a useful purpose for an NFT! Give them a medal!

 

[DrMrLordX]

If you invest in anything on that page, you are a true moron.

Plenty to go around, unfortunately. There's money to be made off the stupidity of others. But solid projects don't advertise there.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Every time I see "invest in crpyto" I want to hurt the person hawking it.

Literally the nature of crpyto means you should NEVER sell it, so whoever gets in first makes out like a bandit and everyone else can be screwed depending on when they get in/out.

 

[Train]

Every time I see "invest in crpyto" I want to hurt the person hawking it.

Literally the nature of crpyto means you should NEVER sell it, so whoever gets in first makes out like a bandit and everyone else can be screwed depending on when they get in/out.

That makes no sense at all. People have sold and bought houses or cars. And people who have gotten in after that have done the same.

That's like saying only the people who made money on Apple were the ones who sold in the 80's everyone after that is a sucker. Even if you got into apple in the "WAY TOO LATE" year of 2017, just 5 years ago, you'd be up 384% right now.

 

[Fenixgoon]

That makes no sense at all. People have sold and bought houses or cars. And people who have gotten in after that have done the same.

That's like saying only the people who made money on Apple were the ones who sold in the 80's everyone after that is a sucker. Even if you got into apple in the "WAY TOO LATE" year of 2017, just 5 years ago, you'd be up 384% right now.

Apple grew by changing its product line and creating new products for new markets.

Crypto coins, as a currency, are finite and grow more difficult to acquire as the network grows (or at least Bitcoin). Which means the value only increases as the network grows.
But a currency that fluctuates wildly in value is no good as a currency.

 

[Train]

Apple grew by changing its product line and creating new products for new markets.

Crypto coins, as a currency, are finite and grow more difficult to acquire as the network grows (or at least Bitcoin). Which means the value only increases as the network grows.
But a currency that fluctuates wildly in value is no good as a currency.

None of that explains why "never sell" is the only strategy.

And

the value only increases as the network grows.

But a currency that fluctuates wildly in value

pick one?

 

[DrMrLordX]

BTC in particular has provided long-term growth pretty consistently. It has its boom/bust cycles, but over time, all it ever does is go up. Which is kinda sad since it sucks.

 

[ultimatebob]

Crypto as a whole seems to be having a rally today. Even Dogecoin is up 10% over the past 24 hours.

 

[pete6032]

Yep BTC on a tear.

 

[Fenixgoon]

None of that explains why "never sell" is the only strategy.

And




pick one?

right, i'm saying it's a speculative investment at best (really i think it's just a giant pyramid scheme). cryptocurrencies are not actually good at being currencies, because they don't hold steady values.

and the reason to "never sell" is because the value of bitcoin is essentially only going to grow, IMO, until it falls of a cliff. HARD.

1) finite coin supply
2) constant or decreasing coin release rate coupled with exponential network growth
2) progressively increasing difficulty of mining

to be useful as a currency, the number of coins in circulation needs to be modifiable, and coin release rate needs to be matched to the network size so the difficulty of mining coins ("value") is held essentially constant.

otherwise, the resources used to mine coins ("value") is going to increasing, making each new coin increasingly more valuable than the last, and not particularly useful as a currency.

why would i pay for something in 1 BTC today if it's almost mathematically guaranteed that in the future, that same 1 BTC will be more valuable because the amount of resources to mine any single BTC is dramatically greater? and why would i lend you 1 BTC today, only to be paid back in 0.1 BTC (or some arbitrary value less than 1) in the future for the same reason?

 

[njdevilsfan87]

and why would i lend you 1 BTC today, only to be paid back in 0.1 BTC (or some arbitrary value less than 1) in the future for the same reason?

That's not how it works in DeFi. If you borrow 1 BTC (or some algorithmically pegged version of it) you're paying back 1 BTC plus borrowing fees.

 

[Train]

right, i'm saying it's a speculative investment at best (really i think it's just a giant pyramid scheme). cryptocurrencies are not actually good at being currencies, because they don't hold steady values.

and the reason to "never sell" is because the value of bitcoin is essentially only going to grow, IMO, until it falls of a cliff. HARD.

1) finite coin supply
2) constant or decreasing coin release rate coupled with exponential network growth
2) progressively increasing difficulty of mining

to be useful as a currency, the number of coins in circulation needs to be modifiable, and coin release rate needs to be matched to the network size so the difficulty of mining coins ("value") is held essentially constant.

otherwise, the resources used to mine coins ("value") is going to increasing, making each new coin increasingly more valuable than the last, and not particularly useful as a currency.

why would i pay for something in 1 BTC today if it's almost mathematically guaranteed that in the future, that same 1 BTC will be more valuable because the amount of resources to mine any single BTC is dramatically greater? and why would i lend you 1 BTC today, only to be paid back in 0.1 BTC (or some arbitrary value less than 1) in the future for the same reason?

If the value only ever goes up, it makes it a great investment, not a pyramid scheme.

And you would sell because you want to buy something else. The same reason you sell any asset.

 

[BFG10K]

About time environmental hippies opened their pieholes:

Bitcoin’s massive energy use faces $5M shame campaign from environmental groups

Environmental groups push bitcoin to emulate ethereum, adopt proof of stake.

arstechnica.com

 

[Train]

BTC blockchain definitely won't switch to proof of stake until long after ETH has proven it to work. And that's 6 years in the making and not done yet.

 

[VirtualLarry]

5:35 in video

Ronin side-chain hacked by 51% attack, NFTs and ETH stolen.

Another stake in the coffin of Proof-of-Stake.

Proof-of-Work is the best decentralized consensus mechanism.

A more-specific video.

 

[Zorba]

right, i'm saying it's a speculative investment at best (really i think it's just a giant pyramid scheme). cryptocurrencies are not actually good at being currencies, because they don't hold steady values.

and the reason to "never sell" is because the value of bitcoin is essentially only going to grow, IMO, until it falls of a cliff. HARD.

1) finite coin supply
2) constant or decreasing coin release rate coupled with exponential network growth
2) progressively increasing difficulty of mining

to be useful as a currency, the number of coins in circulation needs to be modifiable, and coin release rate needs to be matched to the network size so the difficulty of mining coins ("value") is held essentially constant.

otherwise, the resources used to mine coins ("value") is going to increasing, making each new coin increasingly more valuable than the last, and not particularly useful as a currency.

why would i pay for something in 1 BTC today if it's almost mathematically guaranteed that in the future, that same 1 BTC will be more valuable because the amount of resources to mine any single BTC is dramatically greater? and why would i lend you 1 BTC today, only to be paid back in 0.1 BTC (or some arbitrary value less than 1) in the future for the same reason?

I.e. it is a deflationary "currency."

 

[beginner99]

If you do, are those NFTs transferable to the main chain or to other competing L2s?

I was talking about loopring and the upcoming gamestop NFT marketplace (bybebye opensea). loopring obviously is EVM compatible so I just assumed yes but never tried. Of course you then loose the whole purpose of L2, low fees.

But sooner or later even that will likley go away, zkEVM. Which bascially means running the smart contracts on L2 directly for pennies with full L1 security. So yeah, the high fee thing will not be an issue going forward.

Ronin side-chain hacked by 51% attack, NFTs and ETH stolen.

Another stake in the coffin of Proof-of-Stake.

Larry, this is utter FUD.

For those not aware, this side chain had a whopping 9 validators. Meaning you need to hack 5 to get consensus (steal the funds). 4 of the 9 were operated by skymavis, the company behind this side-chain. These 4 were all hacked. Likely an inside job or all had the same security hole / ssh key. The 5th one had some historic RPC link to these 4 which never got removed and made it possible to steal the key as well.

Point it, the issue isn't proof of stake it's lack of decentralization and hence security. Same issue is happening on all side-chains or ETH-clones. polygon most notably or also avalanche or harmony or Solana. Why did Ethereum take forever to what will very likley happen in June/July? Because it's hard to get it right. To make it work in a way average Joe can run a validator from home. Only issue I have with ETH is that 32 is way too much for average Joe. But you can participate with RocketPool.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Yup, if there aren't at least a few hundred nodes, I don't really consider it what the original vision of crypto is (regardless of if its L2 or L1). And that goes for Solana too with its ~20 nodes last I checked. It's awesome how fast Solana is, but to me that's a highly experimental chain right now that I would not be launching commercial products on. It's like something in between what Ethereum is (a true decentralized blockchain) and Ripple (at 100% centralized corporate blockchain).

People are going to start learning, if not already, that launching an L2 isn't just a "go ahead and do it" kind of thing. Security is a major concern on them. And that's why Ethereum shards and Polkadot parachains are going to be so successful as they are will share the same validator nodes as the secure mainchain.

 

[DrMrLordX]

And that's why Ethereum shards and Polkadot parachains are going to be so successful as they are will share the same validator nodes as the secure mainchain.

Not really saying anything for or against DOT but

Ethereum is glacial. Been hearing about sharding since 2016/2017.

 

[VirtualLarry]

ASRock sells mining rig based on salvaged PS5 APU boards.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Not really saying anything for or against DOT but

Ethereum is glacial. Been hearing about sharding since 2016/2017.

Both Bitcoin and Ethereum by now have many members that just want to maintain status quo for one reason or another. Speaking of Ethereum, along with its native token, over half a trillion resides on the Ethereum blockchain. So safety and security are a significant priority (just like with Bitcoin), and so updates will naturally take much longer than the newer, smaller competing blockchains which were built from the ground up with better/improved features in mind (but to what compromises if any we don't really know yet).