The anti-crypto thread

Page 69 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Feb 4, 2009
35,253
16,722
136
So don't move the goalposts. His assertion was "PC Gaming uses 50 times the amount of electricity than GPU miners. "

I added in console gamers, which is probably quite a bit of power worldwide. Now add in mobile. Gaming absolutely dwarfs mining in power usage.

mmmm…..okay.
I think the original point was per users however we can disagree upon that.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,675
3,221
136
There are tons of wasteful things our society spends energy on. I get the sense that most people who say crypto is bad because of its energy consumption are not actually concerned about energy conservation.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,959
16,212
126
There are tons of wasteful things our society spends energy on. I get the sense that most people who say crypto is bad because of its energy consumption are not actually concerned about energy conservation.


This says Bitcoin miners accounts for 0.5% of world power consumption. That is a lot of generation capacity being taken up for no good reason.

All the miners are fighting for a BTC in approximately ten minutes intervals. Only one of them gets that BTC, the rest just wasted a lot of energy for nothing.

 
Last edited:

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,810
126
Nah, there are a whole heap of previous last fool schemes I didn’t get in on and I’m not angry about. Crypto is just one more last fool scheme I’m not angry about. For the same reason I don’t have a closet full of beany babies, I don’t have a wallet full of crypto.
This thread is full of I missed the whole crypto moonshot because I'm so smart to not have invested in last fool schemes. Whatever you tell yourself to feel better.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
This says Bitcoin miners accounts for 0.5% of world power consumption. That is a lot of generation capacity being taken up for no good reason.

All the miners are fighting for a BTC in approximately ten minutes intervals. Only one of them gets that BTC, the rest just wasted a lot of energy for nothing.


Last I heard, it takes about $100 in electricity to process a single Bitcoin transaction because of the insanely high mining difficulty for Bitcoin. For proof of stake crypto like Solana, it's just a fraction of a penny.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
5,722
146
You people know graphics rendering technology literally has had life saving benefits, right? Its paved the way for medical technology that literally saves lives on a daily basis now, and that's actually improving. And that's if you don't even count benefits that 3D modeling has brought, to say automobile safety or a litany of other things where graphics rendering alone has drastically improved things.

Also, uh weird that you clowns suddenly want to demonize gaming when gaming companies are now looking to start implementing crypto bullshit. So which is it, crypto great and is gonna revolutionize everything and save the world or is gaming a 50x worse evil because...well gee you're intellectually dishonest and think people arguing that something that wastes tons of electricity for no positive benefit is worse than something that might use more electricity than that, but provides at least some actual benefits for society is somehow a flawed argument?

Hell, its like you people think gamers don't care about electricity use. I'd be all for pushing efficiency in gaming. Fucking tax that shit for those externalities. Just tax the everloving fuck out of crypto since its only purpose so far is to help douchebags try to evade paying taxes. Guess what would happen if people actually had to pay taxes on crypto. It'd die almost instantly as there would be no benefit to it for even the financial speculation.

So don't move the goalposts. His assertion was "PC Gaming uses 50 times the amount of electricity than GPU miners. "

I added in console gamers, which is probably quite a bit of power worldwide. Now add in mobile. Gaming absolutely dwarfs mining in power usage.

And? Are you really trying to argue that pegging GPU use at 100% for mining is better than pegging it at 100% for game rendering? If you think gaming is bad because electricity, there's no argument you can make that mining is better in any way. You can believe that gaming provides no benefit over mining if you want, but at minimum your argument is completely stupid to try and demonize gaming but defend mining. Your best argument is that both are complete wastes, which uh, talk about un-intended effects, you crypto-evangelists think that making the argument that GPUs are only used entirely for wasteful purposes is going to cause you any positives? You're basically making the argument that GPUs themselves should be outright banned because they are just complete wastes in how you are using them. So you apparently want to piss away your mining use in order to justify saying that well gaming is just as wasteful. Which, uh, either you people didn't actually spend anytime thinking about this or you really are just so oblivious that you're willing to enable the thing you're arguing against, plus spite yourselves, just so you can stick out your tongue at people correctly pointing out that crypto provides nothing beneficial that couldn't also be accomplished entirely by ditching all of the wasteful aspects of crypto. You can rampantly speculate on tons of things, using far less electricity to do so. In fact the silliest part is that some of you have spent tens of thousands in order to get into a speculative market, ignoring that you could've just invested that money directly into other speculative markets and been likely as well if not better off.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. If you were honest, I would have much less issue. Just admit you want to bypass paying taxes and are purely in crypto because of the hope for windfall of money from rampant speculation. Instead we get ever evolving arguments that range from laughably absurd ignorance to straight up lying, all of which are stupid if you spend literally any time actually thinking about those arguments. Just be honest about it. No need to try to punch elsewhere either. Just own it. On the scale of awful shit, your crypto fanaticism is probably not much worse than that from your normal day to day living, poisoning the planet.

LOL at "illegal crypto"

If crypto was squeaky clean and never used for something illegal, all the haters would be saying "It's not a real currency until you can buy drugs or launder money with it!"

Do you even listen to yourself?
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,959
16,212
126
Last I heard, it takes about $100 in electricity to process a single Bitcoin transaction because of the insanely high mining difficulty for Bitcoin. For proof of stake crypto like Solana, it's just a fraction of a penny.

I am not talking about transactions, I am talking about the actual cryptomining. For any given coin, there are x number of miners trying to solve first. But only one of them will, so there is a lot of effort with no return. That is very wasteful.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,959
16,212
126
You seem to have some warped ideas about who is making money on blockchain.



Psst

Mining = transaction verification


The bitcoin ledger propagation is just the overhead. Mining is about the mathematical problem solving part. Regardless, my point still stands, for each winner of a crypto coin, there are x people that didn't win.
 
Last edited:

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
Nah, there are a whole heap of previous last fool schemes I didn’t get in on and I’m not angry about. Crypto is just one more last fool scheme I’m not angry about. For the same reason I don’t have a closet full of beany babies, I don’t have a wallet full of crypto.

Jokes on you because an authenticated mint Royal Blue Peanut Beanie Baby is worth... $2000.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
There are literally threads on this forum saying crpyto is dumb and is going to fail, going back OVER A DECADE.

Not going with the mob just because it felt easy or felt like I could be a part of or have people easily agree with me... was the best financial decision I've ever made in life. I didn't know it at the time, but wow am I glad I didn't listen to this closed-minded non-sense that is still regurgitated today.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
There are tons of wasteful things our society spends energy on. I get the sense that most people who say crypto is bad because of its energy consumption are not actually concerned about energy conservation.

Exactly. It's all nothing more than a bunch of this:



So what is it really then? A coping mechanism to being not only just being wrong about something, but wrong is a way that was well, life-changing. Because I'd wager that most long-time members here knew of Bitcoin since at least ~2014 or when it was only hundreds of dollars. You couldn't not visit a tech hardware forum and not have bumped into crypto after the 2013 $1200 peak. It was all over AT, OCN, [H], etc. But again everyone made a choice at some point... and most spent 5 seconds to agreeing with "it's a ponzi scheme poster x9000" because that has always been the mob-mentality thing to do.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,959
16,212
126
In total. There are still WAY more gamers than your average miner.
This says miner use 110 TWH a year


This says gamer use 75 GWH per year.


Since the gamer study is older by three years let's triple it and call it 225GWH/Y. That is still nothing compared to 110TWH/Y.



Tell me Larry do you have a power meter for your apartment or do you pay a flat rate?
 
Last edited:
Reactions: snoopy7548

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,959
16,212
126
I mean, they are. But transactions aren't verified until a block is mined.

But it's only the fastest guy that solves it gets the reward right? The thousands of runner ups just wasted power. It's not like the losers can stop, since they have to validate that block then move on to next.
Basically the top pools get 80% of the reward while the rest spin up their power meter for nothing.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,030
11,609
136
But it's only the fastest guy that solves it gets the reward right? The thousands of runner ups just wasted power. It's not like the losers can stop, since they have to validate that block then move on to next.
Basically the top pools get 80% of the reward while the rest spin up their power meter for nothing.

Pretty much. Though it's more a game of chance. The "faster" miners are just like people buying more tickets in hopes of winning a lottery.

Regardless

Without that process, there is no txn validation. All the "winners" and "losers" are required to make Proof of Work . . . work. Mining and transaction verification are inseparable in PoW systems. So when someone says "it costs $100 to send a transaction over Bitcoin" or whatever (and I'm not even sure it costs that much right now, but that's possible), then what they're really pointing out is how much BTC you have to pony up to make it worth it for a miner to try and mine out the block where your txn is located.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,995
126
Since the gamer study is older by three years let's triple it and call it 225GWH/Y. That is still nothing compared to 110TWH/Y.
Exactly, a drop in the bucket in comparison.

Gamers don't collapse power grids, cause component shortages, re-commission power plants, or fill warehouses with thousands of GPUs running 24/7.

Trying to draw equivalency of "my-nah" cryptobros to gamers (or hot dog vendors) is utter lunacy.
 
Last edited:

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,959
16,212
126
Pretty much. Though it's more a game of chance. The "faster" miners are just like people buying more tickets in hopes of winning a lottery.

Regardless

Without that process, there is no txn validation. All the "winners" and "losers" are required to make Proof of Work . . . work. Mining and transaction verification are inseparable in PoW systems. So when someone says "it costs $100 to send a transaction over Bitcoin" or whatever (and I'm not even sure it costs that much right now, but that's possible), then what they're really pointing out is how much BTC you have to pony up to make it worth it for a miner to try and mine out the block where your txn is located.


Like I said, the goal is block validation, the coins are the carrots dangling in front of the mule. Except there is only one carrot and there are thousands of mules.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,554
10,171
126
Also, uh weird that you clowns suddenly want to demonize gaming when gaming companies are now looking to start implementing crypto bullshit. So which is it, crypto great and is gonna revolutionize everything and save the world or is gaming a 50x worse evil because...well gee you're intellectually dishonest and think people arguing that something that wastes tons of electricity for no positive benefit is worse than something that might use more electricity than that, but provides at least some actual benefits for society is somehow a flawed argument?
It's intellectually dishonest to claim to want to ban crypto based on energy usage, when gaming takes like 50x more, on the whole.
It's also intellectually dishonest to make the claim that advanced technologies for decentralization, such as public access, permanancy, and transparency, and decentralization, aren't valuable tools on which to build Web 3.0 upon.

Hell, its like you people think gamers don't care about electricity use. I'd be all for pushing efficiency in gaming. Fucking tax that shit for those externalities. Just tax the everloving fuck out of crypto since its only purpose so far is to help douchebags try to evade paying taxes. Guess what would happen if people actually had to pay taxes on crypto. It'd die almost instantly as there would be no benefit to it for even the financial speculation.
Hard to actually evade taxes, since the bitcoin ledger is public, open, and permanent. Almost like someone is being intellectually dishonest about that situation. Hint: In the USA, people do have to pay tax on crypto. And look, it's not going away!
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |