The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[biostud]

Not all blockchain tokens are meant to be units of currency. ETH never was, for example. This matter has been discussed multiple times on this forum, including this thread if I recall correctly. Many of the development teams working on blockchain projects have no publicly or privately-traded shares.

I just often hear "Oh I want to invest in the blockchain technology, so I buy xx cryptocurrency", and my point was just that if you want to invest in the technology, you will have to find a company that actually has that as their business and buy into it, if possible. Not buy cryptocurrency to invest in the blockchain technology.

 

[dullard]

Proof-of-stake is less secure than proof-of-work. To attack to a proof-of-stake network someone would have obtain/buyout over half the circulating supply. That's theoretically a smaller barrier than control over half the hash power on the Bitcoin network. But if the supply is well distributed, buying out half the supply might actually end up being a more expensive task than just throwing hash at Bitcoin

Realistically speaking, I don't see crypto surviving long term if proof-of-stake doesn't work out.

You just pointed out the main flaw. The supply is actually NOT well distributed.

in 2020, 4.5% of Bitcoin holders controlled 85% of the currency

And you don't need to get those whole 4.5% of holders to act together, you just need to have control of a couple sites. For example, Tor has control of 55% of Bitcoin nodes. And Tor is highly insecure:

Over the past year, a malicious actor (widely believed to be from Russia) used a Sybil attack to gain control of up to 40% of Tor exit nodes. The attacker used the nodes to rewrite Bitcoin traffic.

Getting 51% is pretty easy due to this centralization.

If a node operator’s self-interest is to be dishonest, then there is no explicit penalty for doing so...The number of entities sufficient to disrupt a blockchain is relatively low: four for Bitcoin, two for Ethereum, and less than a dozen for most PoS networks.

You could argue that Bitcoin is proof of work. But who is going to do proof of work once they no longer can mine new Bitcoins? No one. Why pay a fortune in computer parts and electricity when you no longer get Bitcoin from mining? It will be a defacto proof of stake.

Link to the quotes above: https://assets-global.website-files...ended_Centralities_in_Distributed_Ledgers.pdf

 

[njdevilsfan87]

But there's also the economic cost. Outside of massive centralization via pre-mine (which some tokens like Solana do have), it's going to be very costly to accumulate half of the circulating supply on any token that's been established for a few years now with an outstanding market cap around $1B. On top of that, the attack itself needs top be economically successful too. It's a "soft barrier", but it is one nonetheless. When you speak of entities that control Bitcoin or Ethereum, you can't ignore their own potential financial destruction for a bad move. We actually saw this play out with Bitmain back in... I forget when, 2017? They became a hostile actor (and a massive one) towards the Bitcoin network, threatening to fork, kill Bitcoin, etc. And what happened? Bitmain eventually gave in, and Bitcoin continued on with SegWit. (and BitcoinCash spun off, and has never even remotely come close to replacing Bitcoin)

I just often hear "Oh I want to invest in the blockchain technology, so I buy xx cryptocurrency", and my point was just that if you want to invest in the technology, you will have to find a company that actually has that as their business and buy into it, if possible. Not buy cryptocurrency to invest in the blockchain technology.

Cryptos are used to pay for the transactions on their networks. So if the technology is growing and more people are using the networks, more tokens are required for payments for that usage. So to "invest in the technology" is to just that: you're investing in the growth and usage of the network which could be from something as stupid as users trading JPEG NFTs to more serious use cases like companies issuing tokens that are functionally the same as stocks.

If you in invest in a successful company, you're going to see far more ROI then of what effect of impact that company may have on increased network usage (and thus increase in value of the token). The dynamic is analogous to investing in individual stocks versus ETFs. But that requires far more effort and research, so don't expect anyone here to pull that off. They'll just claim that company is part of the ponzi-scheme that's going on in their heads.

 

[dlerious]

The bad news keeps coming

Cryptocurrency tech is vulnerable to tampering, a DARPA analysis finds

A new analysis commissioned by DARPA quantifies how the decentralized tech that runs the currency system could be compromised.

www.npr.org

 

[dullard]

The bad news keeps coming

Cryptocurrency tech is vulnerable to tampering, a DARPA analysis finds

A new analysis commissioned by DARPA quantifies how the decentralized tech that runs the currency system could be compromised.

www.npr.org

That is what I posted yesterday. There is virtually no economic cost to disrupt many crypto currencies. You just need to be an entity that can slow down or block some internet traffic (such as Russia) OR hack a small number of sites and you can control a crypto to your liking. This includes transferring all of @njdevilsfan87 coins into your wallet.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I just often hear "Oh I want to invest in the blockchain technology, so I buy xx cryptocurrency", and my point was just that if you want to invest in the technology, you will have to find a company that actually has that as their business and buy into it, if possible. Not buy cryptocurrency to invest in the blockchain technology.

Most companies involved in blockchain to the point that they're created their own, won't offer another vehicle for investment.

The bad news keeps coming

That isn't really news. Consolidation of hashpower has been a known issue for awhile.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Yup, real secure ...

Hackers steal $100 million worth in cryptocurrency in latest heist

USA Today|36 minutes ago
Hackers made off with approximately $100 million worth of crypto currency from the Horizon block-chain bridge.


...

 

[AdamK47]

Bitcoin vs. my favorite total market fund.


While there are gains in Cryptocurrency for the past few days, my hope is that those gains diminish when compared to overall stock markets. The gap widens with cryptocurrency eroding down to nothing. Hopes and dreams.

 

[AdamK47]

Looking pretty good today.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Sounds like a nice safe place ....

FBI offers $100,000 reward for information on "Cryptoqueen" Ruja Ignatova, adds her to Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list

CBS News|28 minutes ago
The FBI announced Thursday that it has added Ruja Ignatova — also known as "Cryptoqueen" — to its Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list. Ignatova is accused of creating a fake Bulgarian-based cryptocurrency company and defrauding investors out of nearly $4 billion.

 

[Kaido]

Sounds like a nice safe place ....

FBI offers $100,000 reward for information on "Cryptoqueen" Ruja Ignatova, adds her to Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list

CBS News|28 minutes ago
The FBI announced Thursday that it has added Ruja Ignatova — also known as "Cryptoqueen" — to its Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list. Ignatova is accused of creating a fake Bulgarian-based cryptocurrency company and defrauding investors out of nearly $4 billion.

Wow dibs on the movie rights, holy moley!!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Looking pretty good today.

You posted too soon. I wish it would just crash already so I could buy some more. Somebody keeps propping it up.

 

[drnickriviera]

Haven't all the crooks switched to crypto yet?

FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud That Fleeced Customers Out of Hundreds of Millions

Don't use crypto you'll be defrauded. Here use our money transfer. You'll still be defrauded, but at least we can make money off it.

I'm no crypto bro, but I think it would be nice to have an international payment system with tiny transfer fees. I'm trying to figure out how to easily send someone in Vietnam $20 and i'm drawing a blank. If anyone knows, i'm all ears. I'm thinking in this day I should be able to say 'Yo send me your MIM number and i'll send some money' MIM = Magical Internet Money. Beep, Boop, Beep. S20 sent, transaction fee .01c

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm no crypto bro, but I think it would be nice to have an international payment system with tiny transfer fees. I'm trying to figure out how to easily send someone in Vietnam $20 and i'm drawing a blank. If anyone knows, i'm all ears. I'm thinking in this day I should be able to say 'Yo send me your MIM number and i'll send some money' MIM = Magical Internet Money. Beep, Boop, Beep. S20 sent, transaction fee .01c

Is the recipient comfortable with using exchanges like VBTC?

 

[sdifox]

Haven't all the crooks switched to crypto yet?

FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud That Fleeced Customers Out of Hundreds of Millions

Don't use crypto you'll be defrauded. Here use our money transfer. You'll still be defrauded, but at least we can make money off it.

I'm no crypto bro, but I think it would be nice to have an international payment system with tiny transfer fees. I'm trying to figure out how to easily send someone in Vietnam $20 and i'm drawing a blank. If anyone knows, i'm all ears. I'm thinking in this day I should be able to say 'Yo send me your MIM number and i'll send some money' MIM = Magical Internet Money. Beep, Boop, Beep. S20 sent, transaction fee .01c

You can PayPal someone in Vietnam as long as they have a local bank account. And sign up with PayPal. Hell you can just go to your bank and wire money to them.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I really don't understand how any of this works or why anyone would use it.

'Pig Butchering' Crypto Scam Victim To Get Money Back From Binance, Law Enforcement Says

Forbes|2 hours ago
Silicon Valley prosecutor says her office has been flooded with with reports of similar scams, in which cybercriminals use dating sites to meet romantic partners they later entice to invest in fake crypto companies.

 

[IronWing]

Sounds like a nice safe place ....

FBI offers $100,000 reward for information on "Cryptoqueen" Ruja Ignatova, adds her to Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list

CBS News|28 minutes ago
The FBI announced Thursday that it has added Ruja Ignatova — also known as "Cryptoqueen" — to its Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list. Ignatova is accused of creating a fake Bulgarian-based cryptocurrency company and defrauding investors out of nearly $4 billion.

Separating fools from their money is a net social benefit. Otherwise, fools remain in charge of resource allocation.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Another one ... I think. It's hard to keep track of the vaporbux thieves.

South Florida investors charged in $40M crypto fraud

The Business Journals|50 minutes ago
The founders and head trader of online investment platform EmpiresX face federal charges for allegedly defrauding investors out of $40 million in just two years. Emerson Pires and Flavio Goncalves, the founders of EmpiresX,

 

[dullard]

Voyager Digital halts trading, deposits, and most importantly withdrawals. Good luck getting your money out of there. How many platforms have crashed and burned in the last month? Voyager crashed because Three Arrows crashed because Luna crashed because...

Major crypto broker Voyager Digital suspends all trading, deposits and withdrawals

Digital asset brokerage Voyager Digital is pausing all customer temporarily suspending customer trading, deposits, and withdrawals.

www.cnbc.com

Voyager's stock down 30% today, down 98.86% from its high just over a year ago.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Pyramid scheme.

They all fall down.

 

[beginner99]

Hell you can just go to your bank and wire money to them.

Yeah, that will cost more than $20. That IS the problem you are completely missing.

 

[MrSquished]

Yeah, that will cost more than $20. That IS the problem you are completely missing.

Still better than buying into a pyramid scheme, this is the problem that you are completely missing.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Still better than buying into a pyramid scheme, this is the problem that you are completely missing.

LOL at international remittances being "buying into a pyramid scheme".

 

[Heartbreaker]

Yeah, that will cost more than $20. That IS the problem you are completely missing.

This came up pages back, there are international money transfer services that cost less than crypto coin fees.

OFX only charge currency exchange surcharge of around .03%.

This is compared to about .1% minimum for crypto coin exchange fees, which you will likely pay twice. Once to convert your money into coins, and your recipient pays again to convert back to usable currency. Then the transfer/transaction fee for the coin itself, which can be high, IIRC about $20 for bitcoin.

So let's not pretend coin transfer is free, and that there are no alternative services like OFX that allow lower cost transfers, without dabbling in crypto coins.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Interesting story. IRS recovered $3.6 Bil worth of BTC; now worth only $2 Bil. Pretty good on them, though. (The IRS, I mean, of course.)