The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[JEDI]

El Salvador Purchases 80 Additional Bitcoin at $19K, President Bukele Says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/el-salvador-purchases-80-additional-014151218.html

catching a falling knife?
or dollar cost averaging since he has a continuous supply of tax $ to invest?

 

[brianmanahan]

catching a falling knife?
or dollar cost averaging since he has a continuous supply of tax $ to invest?

it seems like with tax revenues of 6$b, buying 1.5$m of anything isn't really going to move the needle

 

[VirtualLarry]

"Alledged Crypto ponzi scheme, explained"

 

[DrMrLordX]

@VirtualLarry

That FTX deal isn't happening, the $25 million rumour was fake. It's actually about $100 million higher than that. Still bad for BlockFi.

 

[beginner99]

Then the transfer/transaction fee for the coin itself, which can be high, IIRC about $20 for bitcoin.

Confirmation bias much? Bitcoin is probably the worst example of seond worst after ETH. Anyway it doesn't matter as you would use anything else than BTC like Nano, algo, monero,...which are close to 0% fee or said otherwise the transaction fee is irrleveant compared to the fee of exchanging.
(You could argue ther exchnage fees must be included as well if you go by wire as you can buy crypto with USD and then exchange to local currency)

 

[DrMrLordX]

Confirmation bias much? Bitcoin is probably the worst example of seond worst after ETH. Anyway it doesn't matter as you would use anything else than BTC like Nano, algo, monero,...which are close to 0% fee or said otherwise the transaction fee is irrleveant compared to the fee of exchanging.
(You could argue ther exchnage fees must be included as well if you go by wire as you can buy crypto with USD and then exchange to local currency)

Nano is cheap-as-in-free and Stellar Lumens is like $.0001. Not like everyone around here will actually acknowledge that or accept that it's a legit way to move value, especially for the unbanked. Also I suspect some of the non-crypto money movers are moving to crypto for their backend, which was really the goal all along anyway.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Nano is cheap-as-in-free and Stellar Lumens is like $.0001. Not like everyone around here will actually acknowledge that or accept that it's a legit way to move value, especially for the unbanked. Also I suspect some of the non-crypto money movers are moving to crypto for their backend, which was really the goal all along anyway.

There is no "free".

You keep refusing to acknowledge that there is a cost to convert into and out of crypto coins.

Chances are you don't get your salary in Nano, or Lumens, so you MUST convert to send it, and chances are, they have to convert on the other end to spend it.

So at minimum is two conversions, and it seems unlikely that there many coins that don't have transaction costs on top of the two conversions. Because running a transaction network isn't free and those costs get passed on, one way or another.

Edit:

I was looking for an exchange to buy Nano (seems to be your favorite - since you keep bringing it up). On a list of the top 5 exchanges to buy Nano, 3 were prohibited for US citizens, but here are the service fees on Uphold(Top exchange accessible in USA):

In the U.S. and Europe, our spread is typically 0.8 to 1.2% on BTC and ETH.

• In other parts of the world, our spread on the majors is typically around 1.8%.
• Spreads can be significantly higher for low-liquidity cryptos and tokens including XRP, ZIL, OXT, UPT, DOGE and others. Check rates at Preview before you trade.
• Coordinated market activity such as Wall St Bets can distort markets. All the above spreads are likely to widen beyond those above during times of acute market stress.

Nano, is a penny stock compared to DOGE, so the spread is likely ridiculous. Why don't you try it and report back, likely higher than 5%, especially in the recipient country.

Further to that Nano is subject to significant volatility, having lost most of it's value this year. Total maket cap is down near 100 Million, and daily volume is around 1 million, which indicates almost no one is using it as a practical transfer currency. It's just another speculative game.

Bottom line. Either you are ignorant of the real costs here, or you are being disingenuous in your championing of Nano.

Anyone who actually tried international transfers with Nano, or did some research would understand the costs come from the high conversion costs on low volume coins.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You keep refusing to acknowledge that there is a cost to convert into and out of crypto coins.

No I don't. I've done so multiple times, but hey thanks for playing.

 

[Heartbreaker]

No I don't. I've done so multiple times, but hey thanks for playing.

Yet you keep making misleading claims like "cheap-as-in-free", when transfers could cost near 10% of the total, because conversion fees on low volume coins are murder.

There are really only two options here. You are ignorant of the real costs, or you are disingenuous and arguing in bad faith.

 

[Mai72]

My doge investment is down -85%. Musk lied.

Doge isn't going to the moon.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yet you keep making misleading claims like "cheap-as-in-free",

It isn't misleading when you're a high-volume trader with 0% maker fees. Which is how these chains are meant to be used. As I stated already.

Or you can, you know, just not convert to fiat compulsively.

 

[Heartbreaker]

It isn't misleading when you're a high-volume trader with 0% maker fees. Which is how these chains are meant to be used. As I stated already.

Or you can, you know, just not convert to fiat compulsively.

I though your argument was this was for international remittance to poorer relatives. Which doesn't seem like either party would be a high volume trader with 0% market fees.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I though your argument was this was for international remittance to poorer relatives. Which doesn't seem like either party would be a high volume trader with 0% market fees.

No but the remittance service would be a high volume trader. They can undercut the competition by having free ACH transfers to/from the exchange, no exchange fees for being a market maker (and sub .2% fees for being a taker), and free or nearly free (see: USDC on Stellar) transfers over the blockchain. Unless they're using Nano which technically isn't a blockchain but it works the same way from the end-user's perspective so wtf does that even matter? It doesn't. Iota uses tangles too sheesh whatever.

Remittances for the unbanked are currently a bit costly.

I've posted this already, in this thread. How many more times?

Oh and neither Nano nor Stellar require any mining.

 

[dullard]

Confirmation bias much? Bitcoin is probably the worst example of seond worst after ETH. Anyway it doesn't matter as you would use anything else than BTC like Nano, algo, monero,...which are close to 0% fee or said otherwise the transaction fee is irrleveant compared to the fee of exchanging.
(You could argue ther exchnage fees must be included as well if you go by wire as you can buy crypto with USD and then exchange to local currency)

Great. So lets end Bitcoin and ETH since you claim they are the worst examples. We'll keep getting rid of the crap until we are left with only great crypto.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Great. So lets end Bitcoin and ETH since you claim they are the worst examples. We'll keep getting rid of the crap until we are left with only great crypto.

I'm with you on BTC. It's had its day in the sun, but now it's rather embarrassing watching people try to make it work with LN. Thanks to LN we may never get rid of it though.

 

[beginner99]

Great. So lets end Bitcoin and ETH since you claim they are the worst examples. We'll keep getting rid of the crap until we are left with only great crypto.

Comments like that make you look clueless. it has been clear for at least 2 years that scaling of ETH will only happen via L2. it's the best of both worlds. Fully security of the main chain at a fraction of the transaction times and costs (example: loopring). And soon with zk-EVM you can even run the smart contracts on L2 which will make it even cheaper and faster.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I dunno 'bout c'hyall, but I get my chains at a hardware store.

 

[dullard]

Comments like that make you look clueless. it has been clear for at least 2 years that scaling of ETH will only happen via L2. it's the best of both worlds. Fully security of the main chain at a fraction of the transaction times and costs (example: loopring). And soon with zk-EVM you can even run the smart contracts on L2 which will make it even cheaper and faster.

So you claim it is a terrible example, yet you claim that it is great. No wonder crypto is dying if you are the type of person supporting it.

 

[beginner99]

So you claim it is a terrible example, yet you claim that it is great. No wonder crypto is dying if you are the type of person supporting it.

Yeah. You need to work on your reading comprehension there.
You will run your transaction on Layer 2 (L2) which will cost you close to nothing. But you need L1 (eg ETH mainchain) to guarantee security. Hence best of both worlds. L1 will only handle bundled proofs of L2s. L2 gets L1 to confirm a set of say 1000 transactions. On L1, that counts then as 1 transaction with security. So you now reached 1k fold scaling.

 

[dullard]

Yeah. You need to work on your reading comprehension there.
You will run your transaction on Layer 2 (L2) which will cost you close to nothing. But you need L1 (eg ETH mainchain) to guarantee security. Hence best of both worlds. L1 will only handle bundled proofs of L2s. L2 gets L1 to confirm a set of say 1000 transactions. On L1, that counts then as 1 transaction with security. So you now reached 1k fold scaling.

Except that there is no true security in L2. It is just hope. Sure, I'll process the 1000 transactions, trust me [insert evil grin]. Even L1 "security" is a myth. It is just short-term while people can profit off of it. When the profit goes, so will the security.

 

[DrMrLordX]

When the profit goes, so will the security.

Why?

 

[dullard]

Why?

Little to no incentive to pay the money to keep it running as a disperse entity -> Consolidation of power occurs -> Then >49% control means you can do anything you want with other's crypto. Actually the bar is far lower than 49% if you can temporarily disrupt another player or a portion of the internet.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Little to no incentive to pay the money to keep it running as a disperse entity -> Consolidation of power occurs -> Then >49% control means you can do anything you want with other's crypto. Actually the bar is far lower than 49% if you can temporarily disrupt another player or a portion of the internet.

ETH is going PoS soon, so that's not likely to happen. The routine cost of being a validator will go down since it will use a lot less power. The cheaper ETH gets, the easier it is for small fry to reach the 32 ETH minimum to become a validator. Plus ETH didn't have 51% attacks back when it was worth $10 or less so I don't see why that would happen today.

 

[beginner99]

Except that there is no true security in L2. It is just hope. Sure, I'll process the 1000 transactions, trust me [insert evil grin]. Even L1 "security" is a myth. It is just short-term while people can profit off of it. When the profit goes, so will the security.

Just lol. That sounds like some religious nut saying evolution is just BS and then dismisses science completely so his brain doesn't fry from the cognitive dissonance.

It's ok you don't understand the tech. Bu it's the same with nuclear plants. Just because you don't understand them doesn't make them be dangerous or not work.

 

[dullard]

Just lol. That sounds like some religious nut saying evolution is just BS and then dismisses science completely so his brain doesn't fry from the cognitive dissonance.

It's ok you don't understand the tech. Bu it's the same with nuclear plants. Just because you don't understand them doesn't make them be dangerous or not work.

I'll just sit back and watch you lose your money in this scam. That is true understanding.