The Anti-Semitism Card

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I don't particularly care about unproven claims of what he did while drunk.

Lets put it this way. If TMZ's report of what the officer said Mel Gibson said is a forgery, they will either quickly retract what they posted or get their asses sued off by Mel Gibson for libel.

Given the potential damage the claims about what Mel Gibson said could do to his career, he could go after the site for huge amounts of money. Basically if the posted document by TMZ stays on the site and there is not a lawsuit within the next few days, we can say with certainty that the document is reliable.

By the way, multiple sources in the LAPD have confirmed to major newspapers that the documents posted match what the officer wrote down in his report.

There isn't exactly much dispute about what he said.

 

[Aegeon]

Upon further review, a police department has officially gone on record in confirming that the TMZ leaked report is essentially accurate, specifically with regards to the antisemtic statements. Unless you believe the one police officer completely made the statements up for some reason but was later willing to cover up what he wrote so the public didn't find out about it, Mel Gibson definately said what was alleged. Some of the statements were made when additional witnesses coul hear him.

(AP) An official police report on Mel Gibson's arrest on drunken driving charges substantiates claims that he made anti-Semitic remarks and threatened a deputy, a law enforcement official said Monday.

http://www.showbuzz.cbsnews.com/stories.../31/people_hot_water/main1852883.shtml

 

[imported_peachee]

Whenever I hear "anti-semite" it no longer means any thing because it's used against people who voice an opinion that is against Israel's squeeky clean image.

Mel got arrested for drunk driving ... good as he should.

Does he have to apologize for saying jews cause wars? I mean, is that a crime to say that? How is that criminal again?

That's his view and other people share it.

Who hear thinks people should be arrested for speaking their opinion? Speak up?

You do realize that freedom of speech is one of the rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, no?

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: peachee
Does he have to apologize for saying jews cause wars? I mean, is that a crime to say that? How is that criminal again?

That's his view and other people share it.

Its not criminal, but it was clearly an antisemitic statement as he said it. He certainly did not say the Jews cause wars, he said "The Jews are responsible for ALL wars." That's clearly an antisemetic view if you hold it. Even limitting that statement to right now, that wouldn't apply to what's happening in Sudan, nor what's occuring in Sri Lanka at least by any rational standard. It also wouldn't apply to what's happening with Russia and Chechnia right now, unless you're prepared to make an acusation that Russia is controlled by Jews, which would be suspicious to say the last. I also fail to see how the Jews are responsible for the Maoist uprising in Nepal for instance.

Furthermore saying they are responsible for all wars suggests he's talking about any wars in the past as well. That clearly veers into "Elders of Zion" territory where he's asserting that Jews somehow secretly control all the world's governments and manipulate them to thier own ends. In fact "The Elders of Zion" was more modest in its claims against Jews since it recognized such as accusation woudn't seem plausible enough.

By the way, randomly asking the officer out of the blue "Are you a Jew" is pretty odd behavoir to say the least.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: peachee
Whenever I hear "anti-semite" it no longer means any thing because it's used against people who voice an opinion that is against Israel's squeeky clean image.

Mel got arrested for drunk driving ... good as he should.

Does he have to apologize for saying jews cause wars? I mean, is that a crime to say that? How is that criminal again?

That's his view and other people share it.

Who hear thinks people should be arrested for speaking their opinion? Speak up?

You do realize that freedom of speech is one of the rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, no?

I haven't heard one person who said Mel committed a crime by making anti-Semitic remarks (any more than it would be criminal for me to say your mother is a filthy whore). That's not really the point, and it doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with what he said.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: peachee
Whenever I hear "anti-semite" it no longer means any thing because it's used against people who voice an opinion that is against Israel's squeeky clean image.

Mel got arrested for drunk driving ... good as he should.

Does he have to apologize for saying jews cause wars? I mean, is that a crime to say that? How is that criminal again?

That's his view and other people share it.

Who hear thinks people should be arrested for speaking their opinion? Speak up?

You do realize that freedom of speech is one of the rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, no?

It's not a crime to be an anti-semite. And this has jack to do with Israel or it's image. If other people share his view that "Jews are responsible for all wars in the world" that just means that there are other anti-semites around as well. That being said, I don't give a crap about Mel Gibson or what he said. He's one guy, and his thoughts are meaningless to me. It's not exactly shocking to me that there are anti-semites around. Those who don't like it should not watch his movies and that's that. It's not like he's an elected official in a powerful position.

 

[BoomerD]

Whether you agree with him or not, he is free under our constitution to say the things he did. Persoinally, I don't care. I'm not jewish, so it doesn't affect me in the slightest, and as has been mentioned here, it's no more hurtful than what is spouted daily about the "muzzies"...They have become today's "gooks" as the Vietnamese people were known back during the Vietnam war. It seems to be our nature to vilify those we are at war against, and the muslims aren't going to escape it. Now (just for argument here) if I say I'm anti-Israel, does that make me an anti-semite? Never mentioned one word about hating jews, but if I believe that Israel doesn't have the right to exist, (again, just for the sake of argument) does that make me an anti-semite or bigot?

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Never mentioned one word about hating jews, but if I believe that Israel doesn't have the right to exist, (again, just for the sake of argument) does that make me an anti-semite or bigot?

It might depend on the details. (By the way Mel Gibson's statements were clearly not directed just at Israel and didn't even mention Israel.) If you believe that Israel doesn't have a right to exist and the Jews living there should be driven into the sea or killed, the answer is almost certainly yes. Basically if you are not willing the come up with a solution to the issue which accounts for what happens to the Jewish people living there, you clearly have a problem. Its worth noting that not only are alot of Isralis born in Israel, but half the Jewish population is from or are descendants of Jews from Middle Eastern countries. (The 50% figure does not include Jews who were just born in Israel, but merely Jews who immigrated to Palestine prior to 1945 and Jews who were elsewhere in the Middle East before immigrating to Israel.) In some cases these Jews were forcibly expelled and banned from ever returning from Israel. Essentially you need to explain what your solution would be if you don't think Israel should exist at this point.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Never mentioned one word about hating jews, but if I believe that Israel doesn't have the right to exist, (again, just for the sake of argument) does that make me an anti-semite or bigot?

It might depend on the details. (By the way Mel Gibson's statements were clearly not directed just at Israel and didn't even mention Israel.) If you believe that Israel doesn't have a right to exist and the Jews living there should be driven into the sea or killed, the answer is almost certainly yes. Basically if you are not willing the come up with a solution to the issue which accounts for what happens to the Jewish people living there, you clearly have a problem. Its worth noting that not only are alot of Isralis born in Israel, but half the Jewish population is from or are descendants of Jews from Middle Eastern countries. (The 50% figure does not include Jews who were just born in Israel, but merely Jews who immigrated to Palestine prior to 1945 and Jews who were elsewhere in the Middle East before immigrating to Israel.) In some cases these Jews were forcibly expelled and banned from ever returning from Israel. Essentially you need to explain what your solution would be if you don't think Israel should exist at this point.

Wasn't my point at all, just asking if that opinion would make a person anti-semite.

Whether Israel exists or not isn't my personal concern, nor should it affect me in any way, since I'm not jewish. Why should I have to be willing to come up with a solution to that problem? I have mixed feelings on the subject, and don't think that when Israel was founded in the 40's, that they properly addressed all the issues involving the arab people who were already living there, as well as providing security for the israelis in a part of the world that hates them...
VERY difficult issue, considering the religious differences in that part of the world. However, dealing with the Israeli's is kind of like handling a poisonous snake...you have to be very careful, or you might get bit...they've proven to NOT be a friend of the USA in many ways, but always seem to have their hand out...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: techs
The bottom line is Mel has always been anti-semitic. Many people have reported Mel saying things that are similiar to what he said when he was arrested.
Mel has been given protection and special treatment by the Christian right wing.
Mel has threatened to sue people who try and repeat what he has said.
Search the web and you will see.

Oh I get it, so the Christian right wing are the true anti-semites shielding Mel! Its a conspiracy! Last I checked, the Christian right wing were hardcore Israel supporters but now according to you they're really anti-semites. I guess everyone must be an anti-semite!

Depends how far right you go.

Ain't that the truth . . . thank goodness for Jews . . . it keeps the southern Baptists (and some Methodists) from heaping all their scorn on Catholics.

 

[Kappo]

Do any of the lefties here realize that the party the so heavily support condones LEGALIZED racism? Someone REALLY needs to introduce these guys to the kettle.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Kappo
Do any of the lefties here realize that the party the so heavily support condones LEGALIZED racism? Someone REALLY needs to introduce these guys to the kettle.

Here's a for you to take back under the bridge.

 

[shira]

Bigots and their bigotry must be opposed. Bigots must be exposed as the dangerous wackos they are. Bigots must be shown to be idiots. Their ideas must be shown not only to be without substance, but to be based on hatred.

When things are going swimmingly in a society, bigotry may seem like just a free-speech issue. "What's the harm?" is the typical refrain. "He's just saying what he believes."

The problem is that unless bigotry (especially bigotry espoused by public figures) is strongly opposed, the seeds of hatred and intolerance can get planted in a society. Unless the scurrilous claims of bigots are ridiculed and disproved - and the bigots themselves denounced - those ideas gain credence.

When times get tough, it's human nature to want to blame someone else for the hardship. When times get tough in America - and sooner or later they will get tough - the seeds of bigotry - against Jews, against Muslims, against blacks, against homosexuals, against pretty much any group that's a convenient scapegoat - take root and begin to bear fruit. Violence erupts. Acts of intimidation become more and more prevalent. Liberties start to be curtailed.

Can't happen here? Tell that to the tens of thousands of Japaneses Americans who were deprived of their liberty, and had their land sold out from under them, during World War II. Can't happen again? When I read about the abject surrender of our legislative branch to the will of the Executive in the never-ending "War on Terror" I wonder just how much liberty can be taken away before the common people begin to realize that something's been lost.

Bigotry and its stepsister Fear divide a society in times of hardship. The only solution is to expose bigotry - loudly and frequently and convincingly - as the collection of outrageous and hateful lies it is and to denounce and discredit those who spew the poison.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
:thumbsup:

I don't particularly care about unproven claims of what he did while drunk.

Ditto. I'll side with the local sheriff on this one, he said nothing worth mentioning happened during the arrest. The media blew this whole thing out of proportion. Heck if I had a nickel for every time a jew cried anti-semitism then well, you know...

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: MadRat

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
:thumbsup:

I don't particularly care about unproven claims of what he did while drunk.

Ditto. I'll side with the local sheriff on this one, he said nothing worth mentioning happened during the arrest. The media blew this whole thing out of proportion. Heck if I had a nickel for every time a jew cried anti-semitism then well, you know...

That's not at all what he said. He said the arrest did not necessitate the use of force. The sheriff's department has indicated the report posted on TMZ, including the anti-Semitic comments, is accurate. I find it sad that anyone would claim Gibson's remarks are NOT anti-Semitic when they obviously are.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Ditto. I'll side with the local sheriff on this one, he said nothing worth mentioning happened during the arrest. The media blew this whole thing out of proportion. Heck if I had a nickel for every time a jew cried anti-semitism then well, you know...

You're making an absurd argument. The local sheriff has also aknowledged that basically all details in the report released by the website are accurate. In fact the police are now being investigated by an oversight commitee for showing favoritism by initially covering up this aspect of the arrest.

The LA Times has now posted a transcript on their website stating they have confirmed the authenticity of the report.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne...20819.htmlstory?coll=la-home-headlines

Assuming the LA Times was reckless enough to do this without really checking the authenticy of the information, I see no possible reason why Mel Gibson would not promptly sue the ass off the La Times' parent company for libel. Somehow I don't think the La Times did that and we therefore won't hear about such a lawsuit promptly being filed. (It certainly would be done in a public way in order to ensure the public is aware Gibson disputes the accuracy of these reports.) Basically there is no longer any dispute about this being what the police officer actually wrote down on his report.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: MadRat
Ditto. I'll side with the local sheriff on this one, he said nothing worth mentioning happened during the arrest. The media blew this whole thing out of proportion. Heck if I had a nickel for every time a jew cried anti-semitism then well, you know...

You're making an absurd argument. The local sheriff has also aknowledged that basically all details in the report released by the website are accurate. In fact the police are now being investigated by an oversight commitee for showing favoritism by initially covering up this aspect of the arrest.

The LA Times has now posted a transcript on their website stating they have confirmed the authenticity of the report.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne...20819.htmlstory?coll=la-home-headlines

Assuming the LA Times was reckless enough to do this without really checking the authenticy of the information, I see no possible reason why Mel Gibson would not promptly sue the ass off the La Times' parent company for libel. Somehow I don't think the La Times did that and we therefore won't hear about such a lawsuit promptly being filed. (It certainly would be done in a public way in order to ensure the public is aware Gibson disputes the accuracy of these reports.) Basically there is no longer any dispute about this being what the police officer actually wrote down on his report.

This is a weird thread... are we dealing with asshat snti-semites or just idiotic Mel Gibson Fanboys? And which is worse?

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Never mentioned one word about hating jews, but if I believe that Israel doesn't have the right to exist, (again, just for the sake of argument) does that make me an anti-semite or bigot?

It might depend on the details. (By the way Mel Gibson's statements were clearly not directed just at Israel and didn't even mention Israel.) If you believe that Israel doesn't have a right to exist and the Jews living there should be driven into the sea or killed, the answer is almost certainly yes. Basically if you are not willing the come up with a solution to the issue which accounts for what happens to the Jewish people living there, you clearly have a problem. Its worth noting that not only are alot of Isralis born in Israel, but half the Jewish population is from or are descendants of Jews from Middle Eastern countries. (The 50% figure does not include Jews who were just born in Israel, but merely Jews who immigrated to Palestine prior to 1945 and Jews who were elsewhere in the Middle East before immigrating to Israel.) In some cases these Jews were forcibly expelled and banned from ever returning from Israel. Essentially you need to explain what your solution would be if you don't think Israel should exist at this point.

Wasn't my point at all, just asking if that opinion would make a person anti-semite.

Whether Israel exists or not isn't my personal concern, nor should it affect me in any way, since I'm not jewish. Why should I have to be willing to come up with a solution to that problem? I have mixed feelings on the subject, and don't think that when Israel was founded in the 40's, that they properly addressed all the issues involving the arab people who were already living there, as well as providing security for the israelis in a part of the world that hates them...
VERY difficult issue, considering the religious differences in that part of the world. However, dealing with the Israeli's is kind of like handling a poisonous snake...you have to be very careful, or you might get bit...they've proven to NOT be a friend of the USA in many ways, but always seem to have their hand out...

are you just trying to pick a fight or what? Israel has no place in this thread.... this isn't one of those gray area maybe anti-semetism not anti-semetism thing...In Mel "I hate the jews" gibson's place it's pretty damn blatant..

-Max

 

[jrenz]

WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOO CCCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS???????????????

 

[CHOPPER GOD]

Originally posted by: jrenz
WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOO CCCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS???????????????

inquiring minds...want to know...

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: peachee
Whenever I hear "anti-semite" it no longer means any thing because it's used against people who voice an opinion that is against Israel's squeeky clean image.

Mel got arrested for drunk driving ... good as he should.

Does he have to apologize for saying jews cause wars? I mean, is that a crime to say that? How is that criminal again?

That's his view and other people share it.

Who hear thinks people should be arrested for speaking their opinion? Speak up?

You do realize that freedom of speech is one of the rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, no?

The whole big issue about Mel is that prior to that he had been on the record as to saying he did not believe anything his father spouted about Jews and the Holocaust, etc... Now had he been honest with his true opinion I'd doubt this would of been a big deal.

It would of also put his last movie which many Jews viewed as anti-Jewish ( not semitic because Arabs are semitic as are Persians, Turks, etc..) in proper prospective and you would of known where he was truly coming from intellectually with his depiction of a very well known religious figure.

The other big issue is how some of the cops were more then willing to cover up his DUI and statements because of who he is and his fame. Sorry but this should never happen in a country that calls itself law abiding, open and a free society.

 

[daveymark]

This is not the first time Gibson has faced accusations of anti-Semitism. Gibson produced, directed and financed "Passion," which some Jewish leaders said cast Jews as the killers of Jesus.

Erm, the Jews did kill Jesus. There are Jews out there that don't believe this? Who are they kidding? It's not being anit sematic, it's being factual.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: daveymark
Erm, the Jews did kill Jesus. There are Jews out there that don't believe this? Who are they kidding? It's not being anit sematic, it's being factual.

First of all, even in the biblical account its indisputable that the Jews did not kill Jesus, the Romans did.

Secondly, the Bible is certainly not an indisputably accurate document unless you believe so for religious reasons. In fact you can question whether any of the aspects of the account regarding Jesus Christ are accurate, let alone any specific details such as why he was killed. Note that the only authentic known non-Christian sources on this subject are rather vague and are written way after the fact. Its not like the non-Christian sources were eyewitnesses either, they were simply basing their account from what they heard, quite possibly exclusively from Christian based reports.

A key to note is biblical scholars virtually exclusively agree that all components of the bible dealing with Jesus's life and death were written significantly after the fact, or at least finalized at that point. By this time Christianity had strong incentives to avoid blaming Jesus's death on Roman authorities in order to try to avoid the wrath of the Roman government. (A religious organization that blames the death of its founding prophet/divine figure would look awfully dangerous and subversive from the Roman standpoint.) Since Christianity was trying to seperate itself from the Jews anyways, they made an obvious target. Suggesting the Jews somehow bullied the Roman governer into executing Jesus, an extremely odd situation given how the Roman governmental system actually worked at the time, has a couple of readily apparent early Christian motivations behind why they might have engaged in this sort of historicaly revisionism. When you look at some of the biblical passages they simply objectively don't all make that much sense on the subject. I.E. what sort of crowd spontaniously shouts out "His blood be on our heads and on the heads of our children."? Its simply not plausible unless you believe God took away their free will and compelled them to say that or something. Its frankly a rather blatant demonizing of Jews who have rejected Jesus in this case. Most Jews, who definately don't believe the biblical account of Jesus is completely accurate, believe that individuals who focus on elements of the biblical account which are rather clearly early Christian manifestations of antisemitism are usually antisemitic themselves.

If you every word of the Bible is completely accurate you may not get this, but this is a key reason Christian Fundimentalists generally make Jews so nervous.

 

[Gamer X]

Erm, the Jews did kill Jesus. There are Jews out there that don't believe this? Who are they kidding? It's not being anit sematic, it's being factual.

It was unintentional. He was near a hizbullah rocket launching pad.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Gamer X

Erm, the Jews did kill Jesus. There are Jews out there that don't believe this? Who are they kidding? It's not being anit sematic, it's being factual.

It was unintentional. He was near a hizbullah rocket launching pad.

lol...