The Anti-Semitism Card

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Termagant
Atheism may not be a "culture" but the poll still indicates prejudice.

And if the respondents didn't want their daughters marrying atheists for religious reasons, whats wrong with being against marrying Jews because of religious reasons?

The hypocrisy of some people is amazing.....

Nothing... there is nothing wrong with not wanting to marry jews for religious reasons...
Who said there was?

OK, so what about not wanting to do business with Jews for religious reasons?

That would be unacceptable in most situations.

 

[MadRat]

The funniest part of this whole story is that the cop Mel questioned as being Jew was in fact a jewish descendant and it was he who decided to write up the report about the anti-semitism. He said it compelled him to write the report because he felt he threatened by Mel Gibson. The fact is Mel Gibson rambles on and on for nothing more than conversation and some question whether he is sane sometimes. Perhaps he wasn't so much anti-semite as he was just being his looney overtalkative self when nervous.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Termagant
Atheism may not be a "culture" but the poll still indicates prejudice.

And if the respondents didn't want their daughters marrying atheists for religious reasons, whats wrong with being against marrying Jews because of religious reasons?

The hypocrisy of some people is amazing.....

Nothing... there is nothing wrong with not wanting to marry jews for religious reasons...
Who said there was?

OK, so what about not wanting to do business with Jews for religious reasons?

That would be unacceptable in most situations.

Why? While there are discrimination laws for good reasons, if you choose not to do business with a certain group for religious reasons, wouldn't that be your right?

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why? While there are discrimination laws for good reasons, if you choose not to do business with a certain group for religious reasons, wouldn't that be your right?

Its clearly getting in dubious territory in most cases. I.E. legally no-one's going to buy that its legally ok for you to refuse to do business with black people because of your religious beliefs. Basically in most cases you're actively discriminating against other groups based on their religion at this point, and this really has been widely accepted as not an appriopriate way to act at least in the United States, especially since it can really hurt comparative minority religious groups such as Jews. Basically not letting Jews engage in your group's religious rites unless they convert is one thing, saying you won't serve Jews at your resterant "because they are an accursed race that killed Jesus" is something else.

The most glaring problem is that the religious minority groups could find basically no-one in a town is willing to do business with them if they are all of the minority group with such a doctrine, and this could be a major problem for members of that religious minority group in some cases.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why? While there are discrimination laws for good reasons, if you choose not to do business with a certain group for religious reasons, wouldn't that be your right?

Its clearly getting in dubious territory in most cases. I.E. legally no-one's going to buy that its legally ok for you to refuse to do business with black people because of your religious beliefs. Basically in most cases you're actively discriminating against other groups based on their religion at this point, and this really has been widely accepted as not an appriopriate way to act at least in the United States, especially since it can really hurt comparative minority religious groups such as Jews. Basically not letting Jews engage in your group's religious rites unless they convert is one thing, saying you won't serve Jews at your resterant "because they are an accursed race that killed Jesus" is something else.

The most glaring problem is that the religious minority groups could find basically no-one in a town is willing to do business with them if they are all of the minority group with such a doctrine, and this could be a major problem for members of that religious minority group in some cases.

What you outlined is illegal discrimination. I fully agree that doing that is wrong, but say, if I were in a business that sold products wholesale, could I refuse to sell to say, the JDF (or whatever title they use now) or to the Mormon church, or another religious group (not discriminating against an individual, but a business entity) because of their religion? Maybe I don't want to sell widgets to the Iranians, or doo-hickeys to the Saudi's. heck, maybe I don't want to sell top-secret information to the Israelis....Oh wait, I forget, the Mossad takes care of that pretty well anyway...
I'm NOT advocating discrimination against an individual (or against all people in a certain religious/ethnic group) that would be illegal, and IMO, wrong, just against businesses/government entities, etc...

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm NOT advocating discrimination against an individual (or against all people in a certain religious/ethnic group) that would be illegal, and IMO, wrong, just against businesses/government entities, etc...

That's certainly not at all what you said before, or at least you were increadibly unclear what you were taking about. What you're talking about is generally allowed as a boycott, and you could have a moral reason behind the boycott which is religious or not. Having said this, the US does sometimes have rules against denying service to groups, although this certainly doesn't apply to foreign countries. I'm pretty certain that if you said you wouldn't do business with anyone from Israel period who comes into your store in the US for instance, you would run afoul of antidiscrimination legislation. There might be other circumstances where it could be judged you're engaging in backdoom discrimination as well.

Basically there is no reason that your justification has to be religious in order to decide on a boycott, and you are unlikely to get much more leeway in who you boycott simply because its religious in motivation.

 

[13Gigatons]

I don't care what he said about jewish people while completely drunk.

I do care that he was driving 87 in a 45 while completely drunk because he could have killed someone.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm NOT advocating discrimination against an individual (or against all people in a certain religious/ethnic group) that would be illegal, and IMO, wrong, just against businesses/government entities, etc...

That's certainly not at all what you said before, or at least you were increadibly unclear what you were taking about. What you're talking about is generally allowed as a boycott, and you could have a moral reason behind the boycott which is religious or not. Having said this, the US does sometimes have rules against denying service to groups, although this certainly doesn't apply to foreign countries. I'm pretty certain that if you said you wouldn't do business with anyone from Israel period who comes into your store in the US for instance, you would run afoul of antidiscrimination legislation. There might be other circumstances where it could be judged you're engaging in backdoom discrimination as well.

Basically there is no reason that your justification has to be religious in order to decide on a boycott, and you are unlikely to get much more leeway in who you boycott simply because its religious in motivation.

OK, see, I personally don't give a rat's a$$ what religion you belong to. I tend to not be very religious myself, and am VERY skeptical of those who claim to be. I was asking more for clarification of what people consider "bigotted" in this instance than anything. I have brought up a couple different scenarios, trying to see what people thought. While I do have my prejudices, (I was raised by a fairly bigotted step-father), I TRY not to let it affect my overall opinion of people. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose..., but overall, I think I treat everyone close to the same...(My wife says I'm not a bigot...I hate everyone) and usually, treat them like I would prefer them to treat me...

 

[jrenz]

Two men enter... one man leaves.... two men enter.... one man leaves....

 

[daniel49]

Since Mel made passion of Christ and is now fair game for the liberal media to attack, I am predicting tomorrows NY times headline will be:


"Fidel Get well; Mel go to hell"

 

[Thump553]

A person's political stance has absolutely nothing to do with their opinion about the Passion of Christ movie. I guess most would classify me as politically liberal, essentially nonreligious but I enjoyed the movie-except for Gibson's tendency towards an almost pornographic love of filming extreme violence (the same flaw that was found in the end of the otherwise excellent Braveheart).

Gibson is being pilloried now for several reasons: (a) probably most important, we are now in the August doldrums for news stories-except for Israel's war (headlines for essentially everyone's lifetime at this point) and Iraq, little is happening. (b) Gibson twisted the tails of the Hollywood establishment and won big time financially with Passion. (c) Second perhaps only to Washington, DC, Hollywood's lifeblood is rumors and gossip.

Gibson got drunk and said some really, really stupid things. Remember the household he grew up in before condemning him too greatly. Gibson does not hold any governmental or political power, he is merely a (very rich) entertainer. If you no longer wish to watch his stuff, that's your right.

When tens or hundreds of people are dying every day in Lebanon and Iraq (while Rice plays her piano and Bush does nothing but encourage and rearm the Israelis), and Afganistan seems to be falling apart again, this story is pretty trivial and it's fifteen minutes of life are pretty much up.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
I don't care what he said about jewish people while completely drunk.

I do care that he was driving 87 in a 45 while completely drunk because he could have killed someone.

It does seem a bit odd what people find important.

After Bush's annual physical, his doctor called him fit for duty. FDR couldn't walk and JFK had chronic pain . . . is there any doubt they were far more 'fit' for their responsibilities than President Mountain Bike?

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
I don't care what he said about jewish people while completely drunk.

I do care that he was driving 87 in a 45 while completely drunk because he could have killed someone.

It does seem a bit odd what people find important.

After Bush's annual physical, his doctor called him fit for duty. FDR couldn't walk and JFK had chronic pain . . . is there any doubt they were far more 'fit' for their responsibilities than President Mountain Bike?

Yeah hmmm you're right... we should stop reporting anything in the news except for the really really important stuff like war and death.

 

[compuwiz1]

The way I see it, is another Hollywood actor, got drunk and spoke out his ass. He apologized. Get over it. It's not the first time someone in high profile, said something they shouldn't have.
The only law broken was him driving while intoxicated.
A mole hill is being made into a mountain here.

Yes, he was wrong. Is that going to ruin his career? Doubtful. Will I watch another one of his movies? Probably.

 

[WarCon]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The way I see it, is another Hollywood actor, got drunk and spoke out his ass. He apologized. Get over it. It's not the first time someone in high profile, said something they shouldn't have.
The only law broken was him driving while intoxicated.
A mole hill is being made into a mountain here.

Yes, he was wrong. Is that going to ruin his career? Doubtful. Will I watch another one of his movies? Probably.

Depends if its good or not

Is Mel Gibson a dumbass? Yeah, for gettting drunk and driving (isn't he rich enough to have limo service?), for playing the fool and showing his obvious distain for the Jewish people and his disrespect of police and women (it could of been any race, nationality or religion though and it still would of sucked and made him a tool in my book).

Does he deserve the vilification he is receiving? Probably not. But if he is the catalyst for a new wave of Anti-Judaism, then maybe he should become a lot less public of a figure.

Just my two cents...........

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: WarCon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The way I see it, is another Hollywood actor, got drunk and spoke out his ass. He apologized. Get over it. It's not the first time someone in high profile, said something they shouldn't have.
The only law broken was him driving while intoxicated.
A mole hill is being made into a mountain here.

Yes, he was wrong. Is that going to ruin his career? Doubtful. Will I watch another one of his movies? Probably.

Depends if its good or not

Is Mel Gibson a dumbass? Yeah, for gettting drunk and driving (isn't he rich enough to have limo service?), for playing the fool and showing his obvious distain for the Jewish people and his disrespect of police and women (it could of been any race, nationality or religion though and it still would of sucked and made him a tool in my book).

Does he deserve the vilification he is receiving? Probably not. But if he is the catalyst for a new wave of Anti-Judaism, then maybe he should become a lot less public of a figure.

Just my two cents...........

theres nothing anyone can say to you...his father is a holocaust denier, he made those remarks despite everyone standing up for him in the past.., its pretty damn clear ..use your brain

 

[WarCon]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: WarCon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The way I see it, is another Hollywood actor, got drunk and spoke out his ass. He apologized. Get over it. It's not the first time someone in high profile, said something they shouldn't have.
The only law broken was him driving while intoxicated.
A mole hill is being made into a mountain here.

Yes, he was wrong. Is that going to ruin his career? Doubtful. Will I watch another one of his movies? Probably.

Depends if its good or not

Is Mel Gibson a dumbass? Yeah, for gettting drunk and driving (isn't he rich enough to have limo service?), for playing the fool and showing his obvious distain for the Jewish people and his disrespect of police and women (it could of been any race, nationality or religion though and it still would of sucked and made him a tool in my book).

Does he deserve the vilification he is receiving? Probably not. But if he is the catalyst for a new wave of Anti-Judaism, then maybe he should become a lot less public of a figure.

Just my two cents...........

theres nothing anyone can say to you...his father is a holocaust denier, he made those remarks despite everyone standing up for him in the past.., its pretty damn clear ..use your brain

Humm, my guess is you didn't read my post or understand what you read. Anyway.......

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The way I see it, is another Hollywood actor, got drunk and spoke out his ass. He apologized. Get over it. It's not the first time someone in high profile, said something they shouldn't have.
The only law broken was him driving while intoxicated.
A mole hill is being made into a mountain here.

Yes, he was wrong. Is that going to ruin his career? Doubtful. Will I watch another one of his movies? Probably.

You're wrong about Mel Gibson. A drunk says what a sober man thinks, and he is an anti-semitic prick. This isn't his first such screw up in this vein, and there's more to his motivations behind making Passion of The Christ than his apologists are willing to admit.

Maybe he'll really learn something from all the public humiliation, but since he's a high profile public figure, it's not something to shrug off and sweep under the rug to be forgotten. It's going to take some time and some serious contrition on his part to regain the respect of a large segment of the public.

 

[MadRat]

This was in LA. Public figures don't get a sense of shame there. I bet Mel is getting high fives and pats on his ass over all this.