The Arts V.S. The Sciences

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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,215
15,787
126
Originally posted by: randumb
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: krunchykrome
Originally posted by: sdifox
Arts degree are a lot harder to do well in than Sciences. There is a lot more creativity involved.

Thats the biggest croc of sh!t i've heard in a while.

Please be more elaborate... I would like to hear why you think that way.

PS Forgot to do my own elaboration I may have majored in Computer Science, but I minored in English and Spanish at the same time. I have been to both sides of the world. And let me tell ya, figuring out all the math and stuff was easy compared to the stuff I had to do on the arts side.

Speaking for math, if you've ever done higher level stuff, then you'd know that proofs require a great deal of creativity.

I only needed 1.5 more credit to also get a major in math. Didn't bother. I don't think that really count as creativity, at least not in my books anyway. Yes, there may be a few ways to get to the result, but it can't really be argued. It is either right or it is not.

PS, now that I think a little more about this, I think the thing you do in Math is really ingenuity, not creativeness. You found a way of getting from A to B.

Rememeber, I am saying Arts is harder to do well in, not that it is harder than Science.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: Alienwho
You think that way because your a loser nerd that can't appreciate or wrap your mind around anything that doesn't have a solid solution like 2+2=4

I'll bet your friends (if you have any) think you're dry, boring, ovebearing and a bit of a douchebag.

Yeah, but I'll be he can quote Holy Grail like a champ. That's always a hit with the ladies.
 

puffff

Platinum Member
Jun 25, 2004
2,374
0
0
Wait til you get stuck in a cubicle solving math problems all day and reporting to a knucklehead boss. You'll start thinking, "What is the meaning of my life anyways?" and then regret you hadn't taken that philosophy class back in college.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Heh, yeah even if you want to accept that engineering requires you to be smarter or have better abstract though the fact of the matter is that the businessmen are gonna get more money and more secks than you are.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
You must be exciting at parties.

Just because you can't appreciate fine arts like literature, poetry, music, theater doesn't mean they're worthless. The fact that you say these subjects dont require upper level thinking just shows how ignorant you are
 

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
Science isn't the answer to everything. If it was, we would know everything.

Leave a little to the imagination, or else you'll be dull your entire life.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
I believe science is the truth to everything and is the answer to all of our problems.

I thought you said you were non-religious.

Also, if you had a more advanced understanding of the world, you'd see the value in a lot of those other fields. Even if you had a slightly more advanced understanding, you wouldn't lump philosophy in with the rest, considering that it's the core upon which all of science is based.

<--Physics Researcher.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,821
10,361
136
Originally posted by: azazyel
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
I?ve always have had this conundrum in my head and I just want to get opinion from others. I?m obviously the scientific type of person. I?m non-religious and highly scientific. I believe science is the truth to everything and is the answer to all of our problems. I also feel people who major in the arts are more/less wasting their lives away. Degrees like English, Art, Psychology (B.S.). People, Mass Comm, Music, Sociology, philosophy. They provide little if any commercial value once one obtains such degree and are not highly regarded by others in the field of academia. Why would you spend thousands of dollars to get such a degree only making scribbles. It seems to me (just from knowledge) that these fields require little if any upper level thinking. Therefore they are easy to get and say you have a degree.


And that's BS. You try writting a 30 page paper on the Finno-Ugric Epic and Nationalism.

BSing a paper is easier than BSing the answer to a partial differential equation

sciences > lib arts

<dons flamesuit>
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: azazyel
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
I?ve always have had this conundrum in my head and I just want to get opinion from others. I?m obviously the scientific type of person. I?m non-religious and highly scientific. I believe science is the truth to everything and is the answer to all of our problems. I also feel people who major in the arts are more/less wasting their lives away. Degrees like English, Art, Psychology (B.S.). People, Mass Comm, Music, Sociology, philosophy. They provide little if any commercial value once one obtains such degree and are not highly regarded by others in the field of academia. Why would you spend thousands of dollars to get such a degree only making scribbles. It seems to me (just from knowledge) that these fields require little if any upper level thinking. Therefore they are easy to get and say you have a degree.


And that's BS. You try writting a 30 page paper on the Finno-Ugric Epic and Nationalism.

BSing a paper is easier than BSing the answer to a partial differential equation

sciences > lib arts

<dons flamesuit>
I never understood why people were so proud of "BS'ing". To me it just shows they were unable to provide a coherent argument to whatever they were writing about and instead must resort to vague platitudes and flowery diction to mask a lack of actual thought and content.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Hmmmm....and here I was just thinking about how much I hated minoring in CS, and would have much rather completed either dance or photography because they made me a happier, better person.
 

BigJelly

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2002
1,717
0
0
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: azazyel
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
I?ve always have had this conundrum in my head and I just want to get opinion from others. I?m obviously the scientific type of person. I?m non-religious and highly scientific. I believe science is the truth to everything and is the answer to all of our problems. I also feel people who major in the arts are more/less wasting their lives away. Degrees like English, Art, Psychology (B.S.). People, Mass Comm, Music, Sociology, philosophy. They provide little if any commercial value once one obtains such degree and are not highly regarded by others in the field of academia. Why would you spend thousands of dollars to get such a degree only making scribbles. It seems to me (just from knowledge) that these fields require little if any upper level thinking. Therefore they are easy to get and say you have a degree.


And that's BS. You try writting a 30 page paper on the Finno-Ugric Epic and Nationalism.

BSing a paper is easier than BSing the answer to a partial differential equation

sciences > lib arts

<dons flamesuit>
I never understood why people were so proud of "BS'ing". To me it just shows they were unable to provide a coherent argument to whatever they were writing about and instead must resort to vague platitudes and flowery diction to mask a lack of actual thought and content.

I think that was his point. Arts can bs more then the sciences. In fact, to me, bsing is the anti-science approach.

I think the arts are important...
But science degrees (or analytical thinking degrees) >> Art (creative thinking degrees)
As a TA, I saw how the art students were unable to connect the dots when I explained things analytically, so I had to come up with metaphors to explain things (which strengthened my understanding).
I believe almost anyone with a science degree could get an art degree but NOT vis versa (very few art majors could handle the sciences). I don't want to hear the "where's your 9th smyphony" "arguments"--some people are just gifted--they weren't taught their ability in college. I talking about college degrees.

Of course my students liked my take on how to write a paper (both my semesters had an extra-credit paper). I told them just use the spell checker and have someone read it to make sure people understand their analysis--once it makes sense it's done. Basically, I don't care how pretty it sounds I care about your analysis/arguments.

Of course I'm biased (chemist).
 

potato28

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
8,964
0
0
Originally posted by: Flyback
I agree with the op.

I mean, who are they these limp-wristed artsies trying to fool. Philosophers especially. Pre-Socratics, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Kant, Nietzsche -- like those dudes ever contributed anything meaningful to mankind. A bunch of ivory tower nitwits. Western civilization schmivilization.

I hate music, film, television, and other forms of expression, too. And who needs psychology, either? Bunch of mumbo jumbo. It's all in yo' head!!!

Try being someone that doesn't have an image. It's not fun. I'd rather have some fun, express myself, and do something.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
I have just finished college. i find that my electives were much more useful and fun for me. Sure, my engineering degree gives me a job, but that is just about it.
 

Imdmn04

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2002
2,566
6
81
Art = make you a more well rounded person, not meant to be a job skill, but more for broadening your horizon.

Science = more practical, a bit more specific and defined, more helpful than art in getting a job.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: azazyel
Because those degrees broaden you mind to the world around you. I'm a Software Tester but I got my degee in Social Sciences. While I don't use knowledge I gained from my schooling at work, I do you it quite a bit in life.

My God.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
I see a bunch of smug kids arguing about whose degree is better, when in reality it is the person's capabilities and attitude which matters.
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
76
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: azazyel
Because those degrees broaden you mind to the world around you. I'm a Software Tester but I got my degee in Social Sciences. While I don't use knowledge I gained from my schooling at work, I do you it quite a bit in life.

My God.

Yes, my child?
 

3NF

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2005
1,345
0
0
In the future, degrees won't matter as most everyone will be on the same playing field through chemical education. The only thing that will make you stand out is creativity (arts, music, etc.).
 

randumb

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2003
2,324
0
0
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: randumb
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: krunchykrome
Originally posted by: sdifox
Arts degree are a lot harder to do well in than Sciences. There is a lot more creativity involved.

Thats the biggest croc of sh!t i've heard in a while.

Please be more elaborate... I would like to hear why you think that way.

PS Forgot to do my own elaboration I may have majored in Computer Science, but I minored in English and Spanish at the same time. I have been to both sides of the world. And let me tell ya, figuring out all the math and stuff was easy compared to the stuff I had to do on the arts side.

Speaking for math, if you've ever done higher level stuff, then you'd know that proofs require a great deal of creativity.

I only needed 1.5 more credit to also get a major in math. Didn't bother. I don't think that really count as creativity, at least not in my books anyway. Yes, there may be a few ways to get to the result, but it can't really be argued. It is either right or it is not.

PS, now that I think a little more about this, I think the thing you do in Math is really ingenuity, not creativeness. You found a way of getting from A to B.

Rememeber, I am saying Arts is harder to do well in, not that it is harder than Science.

I think it depends on how abstract the math is. In introductory classes like analysis and algebra, there is usually one standard way to do a proof that doesn't require much ingenuity and alternative proofs rely on simple tricks. This is also true of introductory arts classes where you learn to reproduce fundamental techniques. But when you reach more advanced material like algebraic topology or begin to do research, problems will require very long and elaborate proofs. It is typical for homework to contain only one or two problems and for students to only construct a partial proof. To do well at this level requires as much creativity as the arts.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
I?ve always have had this conundrum in my head and I just want to get opinion from others. I?m obviously the scientific type of person. I?m non-religious and highly scientific. I believe science is the truth to everything and is the answer to all of our problems. I also feel people who major in the arts are more/less wasting their lives away. Degrees like English, Art, Psychology (B.S.). People, Mass Comm, Music, Sociology, philosophy. They provide little if any commercial value once one obtains such degree and are not highly regarded by others in the field of academia. Why would you spend thousands of dollars to get such a degree only making scribbles. It seems to me (just from knowledge) that these fields require little if any upper level thinking. Therefore they are easy to get and say you have a degree.

I would claim pretty much the opposite of you. I find degrees in business, marketing, management, etc to be worthless. These things aren't about knowledge, they're about jobs, and all jobs are worthless wastes of time that get in the way of everything that matters in life. Things like computer science aren't much better (unless you're in higher level theory) because again it's just about work, which is nothing. At least you do get to approach logic with such a degree, but science majors are often unable to apply logic to none science scenarios (ie they can't examine history for patterns and make logical conclusions because it's a different type of skill). I would further counter that most positive advances in humanity have come from thinkers, not workers (ie philosophers, etc) and that without arts (music, dance, theatre, painting, etc) there would be absolutely no point to life whatsoever so everything else would cease to have meaning. I challenge anyone who thinks it's a cake walk to get a BA in history with a minor (anthro, psych, poli-sci, etc). After three years (compressed coursework) I had to read/study over 300 books (most averaging 250-400 pages). I wrote about a thousand pages of essays myself, including two publishable works - one at 31 pages with 60 sources(including primary and original research), one 47 pages with 88 sources (including primary). That's on top of all the normal daily homework. I'm not saying it's harder, but it's difficult in it's own way.

I don't look down on science degrees (chem, philo, engineering, math, etc) especially the theory focuses which help to propel us forward (and since I'm more than halfway thru three of them myself). I do look down on education for career only, which I find ludicrous. The bottom line of this debate is that truth is subjective, which is something you'd learn if you took more psychology, philosophy, etc. Our personalities our different, which is also something you only learn about in the classes you belittle.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
The bottom line of this debate is that truth is subjective, which is something you'd learn if you took more psychology, philosophy, etc.

Clearly you didn't take enough philosophy, if you can state so absolutely that truth is relative.

Originally posted by: 3NF
In the future, degrees won't matter as most everyone will be on the same playing field through chemical education. The only thing that will make you stand out is creativity (arts, music, etc.).

Even if you could fill someone's head with facts, there are enough differences in actual thinking skills and reasoning (which is in some ways a creative process, and in some ways not) that you couldn't just make good scientists, or good engineers, or good any number of other things. Sure, you could churn out mediocre ones by the truckload, but a science education is about so much more than just stuffing your head with facts and equations. It is laughable and wrong for the OP to so thoroughly reject creativity and the humanities, but it is equally wrong for you to hold them to be the only measure of a man.
 
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