The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
we are going into hyjal tonight i believe. How important is the pvp trinket for rage winterchill? I have the honor for the 5min one, will that be ok for a rogue?

It helps a lot during the learning curve phase but it isn't required. If you have it then use it. People should be working to get it anyways if you plan to tackle Archimonde. I recommend those with low hp wear more stam gear and your healers really need to be on the ball when it comes to Target of Target healing or else he will kill random members in your raid very quick.

Also, I edited my last post about Vashj that was in response to your guild's feedback so check it out.

So i'll grab the 5min one for tonight and work on getting the large one in the upcoming month.

I did see your response, and I relayed it back to our guild. We had something similiar to that setup except everyone was to dps the nagas and just dot the strider when possible. We also only had 3 sections instead of 4 quadrants which made it difficult to control all the elementals.

Ya, dots on the strider alone is not nearly enough. 3 sections instead of 4 means you have to rely too heavily on ranged dps which is unrealistic considering you will most likely have melee in your raid and you do want them anyways. They help a lot in P3. Lastly, expect there to be one or two naga alive when entering P3. This is normal. You might even have a strider alive, but proper timing of bringing down the fourth generator can avoid the strider issue.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
auto spelllock has its use sometimes its just easier to sick it on a healer or caster and let it auto lock/devour, but in a small setting 1v1 or 2v2 theres no need to

Yeah, usually when I'm fighting someone alone I'll turn it off and cast by myself, but it's also not in a convenient spot and I haven't optimized my lock's bars yet.

I'd say we could do some duelage on the next PTR but my gear is so bad on my Shaman you'd win by gear alone .

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Anubis
auto spelllock has its use sometimes its just easier to sick it on a healer or caster and let it auto lock/devour, but in a small setting 1v1 or 2v2 theres no need to

Yeah, usually when I'm fighting someone alone I'll turn it off and cast by myself, but it's also not in a convenient spot and I haven't optimized my lock's bars yet.

I'd say we could do some duelage on the next PTR but my gear is so bad on my Shaman you'd win by gear alone .

my PVE gear yes, my PVP gear is a mix of S1 and S3, i hardly do areans any more

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Anubis
well after wipeing on Felmyst for 4 hours i can honestly say im looking forward to brut next week :/

EET MOAR STAT FUUD

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Anubis
well after wipeing on Felmyst for 4 hours i can honestly say im looking forward to brut next week :/

EET MOAR STAT FUUD

stam food wont save people from not runing from the green beam of death or not running from the massive arcane explosion or remembering the difference between north and south


actually phase 1 is fine and the P1-2 transition was almost flawless at the end of last night, the P2 dance is whats killing us, north no wait south no north ... aww fuck

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
ugh... so I mentioned some things I found that you guys said... responses back:

I quoted you:
"EVERY SINGLE MELE/TANK is on the nagas
have a paly put on righteous fury and spam heal someone to get the naga to agro to him when it spawns, tank pulls off paly kill naga
"

They responded:
Bad idea. Those things hit really hard. That's an almost guaranteed dead healer. Besides, picking them up wasn't really an issue.

I don't understand why you don't just have a war or druid grab the naga as a they spawn and drag them to the middle. From there they can either continue to tank them or another tank can pull the naga off the war/druid so that they can grab another naga or continue to dps.

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
I have heard fmro a person or two that the best strat they found was simply having the nagas tanked for phase 2 and all DPS on the strider. Keeping melee on the elementals and tainted spawns, giving ranged a better ability to focus on the strider's.
I think this would benefit us greatly as it would mean we don't miss the tainted spawns, which shortens the fight, and keeps the striders under better control.

No DPS on the naga? I wouldn't recommend doing that. Naga DPS should not be a high priority but it still needs to happen. Even if you manage to survive and get to P3, you will have a lot of Naga to worry about at that point along with poison poops + AE roots to avoid. Remember that there is a soft enrage timer where the bats start pooping poison at ridiculous speeds. Leaving the Naga until this phase means you have less time to kill Vashj before this soft enrage.

Just do this. Create your DPS + healer groups for each quadrant. Make sure each quadrant gets one ranged dps, one melee dps, and one healer. Pick your two kiters. Put everyone else in the middle. If you are ranged in the middle then DPS striders. If you are melee dps then dps naga and enchanted elementals. If you are a tank in the middle then ensure you keep the naga under control which includes dragging them to the middle. This all just makes sense.


***EDIT***

Also, make sure the ranged DPS in each quadrant hit the striders while they are in range by at least applying DoTs. Their kill priority should be the following:

Tainted -> Striders -> Enchanted Elementals

It means they all need to pay attention to their surroundings and multi task swiftly and accurately, but that level of challenge is apart of any strat which consistently works on Vashj. This is why she is considered to be very hard.

This ^

Worked for us every time.

Lots of people are spread out very thin, requiring emphasis on individual performance and ability to do your job alone without being overlapped with others to carry the weight for you. This is one of the few fights in the game where you can't make up for one under performing person and have anyone die in phase 1 and 2.

Make sure people are able to keep up with their duties, replace them if they can't. Focus first on making sure the elemental groups have evenly distributed dps and are capable of sustaining their roles indefinitely (dps and healing wise, and consistent in catching tainted elementals and throwing cores without fail). If one team is consistently having a healer die or one of the dps die, or if elementals keep breaking through for the same people or the same side always misses their tainted core, replace them or rebalance the elemental teams. Once this is down, focus on your next goal of dps'ing the strider and naga down before the next one spawns. Then collect your loot.

I can proudly say since pull one, my elemental side has never had a problem on any single pull, with healing, with dps, throwing cores, etc. My rogue and lock and I had to run to the west side and die on purpose many times... sigh. Except the rogue getting one shot by naga spawning right on top of him while dps'ing a tainted and not even having time to sprint (or it's on cooldown from the tainted). Still a slight element of random luck in that regard.

Kael on the other hand is much more enjoyable, that fight is like clock work, the same thing every time... except Capernian can be a hoe and ignore the conflag tank and conflag the warlock and start fire bombing the healer...

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
ugh... so I mentioned some things I found that you guys said... responses back:

I quoted you:
"EVERY SINGLE MELE/TANK is on the nagas
have a paly put on righteous fury and spam heal someone to get the naga to agro to him when it spawns, tank pulls off paly kill naga
"

They responded:
Bad idea. Those things hit really hard. That's an almost guaranteed dead healer. Besides, picking them up wasn't really an issue.

I don't understand why you don't just have a war or druid grab the naga as a they spawn and drag them to the middle. From there they can either continue to tank them or another tank can pull the naga off the war/druid so that they can grab another naga or continue to dps.

we did it that way because when learning it we got Fed by bad luck as an ele healer would toss a heal on the ele DPSer as the naga spawned and the naga would agro them + 1shot, paly + RF makes that never happen

Makes sense, but the way I look at it is that sort of problem can happen in a lot of fights where adds spawn. Tanks need to learn to compensate for that issue. It's their job so they should know how to do it. That plus healer aggro is not reliable at all. It's far too inconsistent especially in a healing intensive fight such as Vashj. You don't want to take a healer's attention away from their primary duties in order to try and pull aggro for a tank.

That a paladin's job. The theme of sacrifice and protecting allies has always been associated with paladins in any lore. They wear plate and hold a shield for a reason and have skills like Blessing of Sacrifice, Righteous Fury, and Righteous Defense for a reason: taking the hit so a priest or druid doesn't have to be one shot is part of your overall raid HPS/DPS throughput as a result of not having popped squishies.

Paladin is a hybrid class, and as such, they do more than one thing and require multi tasking. They have the highest survivability in the game with bubble, LoH, etc. With improved concentration aura with fast efficient heals they can even tank hard hitting elites almost indefinitely while spamming heals on themselves, buying crucial time for the team.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
ugh... so I mentioned some things I found that you guys said... responses back:

I quoted you:
"EVERY SINGLE MELE/TANK is on the nagas
have a paly put on righteous fury and spam heal someone to get the naga to agro to him when it spawns, tank pulls off paly kill naga
"

They responded:
Bad idea. Those things hit really hard. That's an almost guaranteed dead healer. Besides, picking them up wasn't really an issue.

I don't understand why you don't just have a war or druid grab the naga as a they spawn and drag them to the middle. From there they can either continue to tank them or another tank can pull the naga off the war/druid so that they can grab another naga or continue to dps.

we did it that way because when learning it we got Fed by bad luck as an ele healer would toss a heal on the ele DPSer as the naga spawned and the naga would agro them + 1shot, paly + RF makes that never happen

^

I've routinely taken 2 hits and bubbled by the time the naga picker upper tank was in intervene range, and I put pallys on the elemental teams for this exact reason.

9 times out of 10 though they would go straight for the CoH priest in the center and be picked up well before then with plenty of aggro warning (I target the naga when it spawns and call out who it's on so they can bubble, fade, etc).

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Kael on the other hand is much more enjoyable, that fight is like clock work, the same thing every time... except Capernian can be a hoe and ignore the conflag tank and conflag the warlock and start fire bombing the healer...

So true...we always try to MD her but it still gets screwed up sometimes.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: exdeath

Kael on the other hand is much more enjoyable, that fight is like clock work, the same thing every time... except Capernian can be a hoe and ignore the conflag tank and conflag the warlock and start fire bombing the healer...

So true...we always try to MD her but it still gets screwed up sometimes.

The MD just gets her running to the lock, but she can still conflagrate the lock and the next person on the aggro list is the lock's healer or the MD hunter who was her first target before the MD landed. We wait for two conflags on a druid tank who is closer to her than the lock before opening up just to make sure, but shes a finicky hoe and can sometimes start running to the lock for no obvious reason and mess things up.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: exdeath

Kael on the other hand is much more enjoyable, that fight is like clock work, the same thing every time... except Capernian can be a hoe and ignore the conflag tank and conflag the warlock and start fire bombing the healer...

So true...we always try to MD her but it still gets screwed up sometimes.

The MD just gets her running to the lock, but she can still conflagrate the lock and the next person on the aggro list is the lock's healer or the MD hunter who was her first target before the MD landed. We wait for two conflags on a druid tank who is closer to her than the lock before opening up just to make sure, but shes a finicky hoe and can sometimes start running to the lock for no obvious reason and mess things up.

You are reminding me why I am happy to be running MH/BT lol. I did enjoy Kael a lot except for that part though.

 

[AntiFreze]

awesome advice guys. I've stressed what I can for now, we'll just see if they take it into consideration.

Side question.

People are always talking about dps as a #. I use recount and it has damage done and dps. Maybe it's because im tired, but how can I be #1 in damage in a raid, but #4 on dps? I dont really get that. And how can you see your overall raid dps? (ive seen people post "your raid needs 16k dps for this boss")

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
awesome advice guys. I've stressed what I can for now, we'll just see if they take it into consideration.

Side question.

People are always talking about dps as a #. I use recount and it has damage done and dps. Maybe it's because im tired, but how can I be #1 in damage in a raid, but #4 on dps? I dont really get that. And how can you see your overall raid dps? (ive seen people post "your raid needs 16k dps for this boss")

Recount? Don't you mean Big Brother?

I hate that mod. It gives the nit pickers an excuse to monitor key strokes of other players. It's actually banned in our guild with exception of our guild master and with good reason I think.


Anyways, on a more productive note, is the answer because the DPS ranking is reset per encounter while the damage in a raid is calculated from the beginning to the end of your raid night?

 

[AntiFreze]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
awesome advice guys. I've stressed what I can for now, we'll just see if they take it into consideration.

Side question.

People are always talking about dps as a #. I use recount and it has damage done and dps. Maybe it's because im tired, but how can I be #1 in damage in a raid, but #4 on dps? I dont really get that. And how can you see your overall raid dps? (ive seen people post "your raid needs 16k dps for this boss")

Recount? Don't you mean Big Brother?

I hate that mod. It gives the nit pickers an excuse to monitor key strokes of other players. It's actually banned in our guild with exception of our guild master and with good reason I think.


Anyways, on a more productive note, is the answer because the DPS ranking is reset per encounter while the damage in a raid is calculated from the beginning to the end of your raid night?

ahhh, that might be the case. good point.

Why is recount banned? I think it promotes healthy competition for people to push a little harder for more dps.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
awesome advice guys. I've stressed what I can for now, we'll just see if they take it into consideration.

Side question.

People are always talking about dps as a #. I use recount and it has damage done and dps. Maybe it's because im tired, but how can I be #1 in damage in a raid, but #4 on dps? I dont really get that. And how can you see your overall raid dps? (ive seen people post "your raid needs 16k dps for this boss")

in recount there is an option for "Show total DPS" which will simply add everyones together
and show it at the top

as for damage done vs DPS some spells like say Curse of Doom do a large ammnt of damage at one time, however it takes a min to go off, small DPS large pure damage, also factors like multy DPS targets and such skew this, on any fight with adds a dot class can clean house on total damage done but will still do less pure DPS then a single target DPSer

illidan is a great example of this, because of phase 2 aff locks/ shadow priests clean house even with a lower DPS value

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
awesome advice guys. I've stressed what I can for now, we'll just see if they take it into consideration.

Side question.

People are always talking about dps as a #. I use recount and it has damage done and dps. Maybe it's because im tired, but how can I be #1 in damage in a raid, but #4 on dps? I dont really get that. And how can you see your overall raid dps? (ive seen people post "your raid needs 16k dps for this boss")

Recount? Don't you mean Big Brother?

I hate that mod. It gives the nit pickers an excuse to monitor key strokes of other players. It's actually banned in our guild with exception of our guild master and with good reason I think.


Anyways, on a more productive note, is the answer because the DPS ranking is reset per encounter while the damage in a raid is calculated from the beginning to the end of your raid night?

so you guys use nothing like SW stats or WWS to monitor peoples ability to do stuff? we still post WWS from every Hyjal and BT even tho we have had those on farm for months

i run recount myself only to monitor personal performance to make sure i am consistiant

and even if you reset your total meter before a boss fight it is possiable to have a higher damage done with a lower DPS value, i can post WWS logs to prove this when i get home

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
awesome advice guys. I've stressed what I can for now, we'll just see if they take it into consideration.

Side question.

People are always talking about dps as a #. I use recount and it has damage done and dps. Maybe it's because im tired, but how can I be #1 in damage in a raid, but #4 on dps? I dont really get that. And how can you see your overall raid dps? (ive seen people post "your raid needs 16k dps for this boss")

Recount? Don't you mean Big Brother?

I hate that mod. It gives the nit pickers an excuse to monitor key strokes of other players. It's actually banned in our guild with exception of our guild master and with good reason I think.


Anyways, on a more productive note, is the answer because the DPS ranking is reset per encounter while the damage in a raid is calculated from the beginning to the end of your raid night?

ahhh, that might be the case. good point.

Why is recount banned? I think it promotes healthy competition for people to push a little harder for more dps.

It can when used right by the proper people. The difference between recount and other DPS meters such as SW Stats is that Recount collects information about each raid member including the exact keystrokes and the order that they are used. To me, that is just too much. I don't want people to know that information about me. While such a thing can be used in a positive manner, there are some who will look at the data and use it to critique others in a poor way. That is not Recount's fault directly. Recount is just a tool. The blame should be placed on the people, but then again that is the justification with anything in life which that is not alive yet can be used to potentially cause harm.

The bottom line is that we do have 1 or 2 members who have been with us forever, are very knowledgeable about the game, and perform very well but they seriously lack tact. These same people don't know when to shut up either. So, rather than toss a mod like recount into the mix which will do more harm than good in comparison to SW Stats which causes much less of a problem for us, we just outright ban it with exception of the GM who uses it properly. I know it sounds harsh, but understand that this is the only mod we have ever had to do this for and it has saved us headaches. No loss.

 

[Anubis]

you can monitor keystrokes in recount? or are you talking about # of casts

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Anubis
you can monitor keystrokes in recount? or are you talking about # of casts

I was told exact keystrokes/casts/abilities and their order if configured to do so. One of my friends is an officer and he told me all about how it works.

It's just too much invasion of privacy. I always do what I do for a reason and I sometimes mess up just like everyone else. However, there comes a point where the amount of detailed info that is presented to a raid will lead to finger pointing more so than it will lead to constructive criticism. SW Stats can do the same thing, but at least it doesn't provide a detailed justified reason for why someone may have been lacking a little luster. That lack in detail results in less finger pointing since people don't actually know for sure what is going on. It only presents an opportunity to approach the person and ask, "Hey, I noticed ****. What's up? Do you need some help?" instead of "Hey! Why aren't you doing ****!? You are slacking. You should be doing ****. Stop screwing up!"

When someone does something wrong, odds are they are aware of what happened and just need more practice. When that is the case, it is best for the issue to be left alone and to try try again. We have never had issues identifying and resolving problems before Recount so there really is no advantage to using it considering all of the potential nastiness that can come with it. We have those couple members where I am certain will behave in the manner which my GM and I fear. I have no doubt he had these people in mind when making the decision about Recount. These members are great raiders but they lack tact. It's for the best. We can all live just fine with SW Stats.

 

[Anubis]

im gonna have to look at recount when i get home, ive run it forever and i dont remember it doing what you said
there are other mods that do however

i like it caus eit has graphs

Antifreze

look at screenshot, has total bar + nifty graph
http://www.rootminus1.com/free...erpics/10001/brut1.jpg

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Anubis
im gonna have to look at recount when i get home, ive run it forever and i dont remember it doing what you said
there are other mods that do however

Well, understand that I have never used it due to the ban. However, I was told it is banned for that reason. There is always a chance I was informed slightly wrong. However, I trust my GM. I am sure that whatever it does there is a justified reason for the ban which includes the potential finger pointing and shitty criticism.

 

[bfdd]

Blackrock Horde main is a BElf Paladin now.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
"Hey! Why aren't you doing ****!? You are slacking. You should be doing ****. Stop screwing up!"

I make abundant use of the global mute in vent for such occasions. If people don't respect the raid leaders position as the only one who should be talking and calling people out, they don't get invited on the next raid.

And spamming meters and e-peen stroking is forbidden outside of private whispers. It never fails that the only time someone is interested in meters is when they are up top, and they want to reset it every 5 minutes when they aren't, or they die instead of stepping out and bandaging because somebody is .1 dps away from overtaking them.

Meh @ meters.

I do keep an eye on myself though. I put out around 1500 hps during periods of steady burst damage. Poor shammys and druids don't know what hit em

 

[AntiFreze]

Originally posted by: Anubis
im gonna have to look at recount when i get home, ive run it forever and i dont remember it doing what you said
there are other mods that do however

i like it caus eit has graphs

Antifreze

look at screenshot, has total bar + nifty graph
http://www.rootminus1.com/free...erpics/10001/brut1.jpg

That makes more sense, whats the mod called for that graph? I'd like to run it on TW tonight to see what my guild can do in a pretty much tank n spank.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze

Originally posted by: Anubis
im gonna have to look at recount when i get home, ive run it forever and i dont remember it doing what you said
there are other mods that do however

i like it caus eit has graphs

Antifreze

look at screenshot, has total bar + nifty graph
http://www.rootminus1.com/free...erpics/10001/brut1.jpg

That makes more sense, whats the mod called for that graph? I'd like to run it on TW tonight to see what my guild can do in a pretty much tank n spank.

its part of recount

open up the config window, click on the "window" tab and then click on DPS in the pannel on the right