The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Neither was I. That was misleading though which I apologize. Read the last sentence.

I did and that's not true. It's perfectly fine to ignore melee DPS in a 5-man. Haven't you ever had a 5-man without melee DPS that went well? I sure have... especially when I'm usually the melee but now I'm the ranged :Q!

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't claim to understand it as well as they do, but that doesn't mean I do not understand it very well.

I don't think I've ever met someone who doesn't play a melee class (or a specific class) that actually understands it. They like to claim that they do, but they tend to make a lot of assumptions about general ease or how they're played. That's why I cast away general assumptions and I literally play every class. Unfortunately I don't get the option of playing every role, but I do go on the PTR specifically to switch builds and try them out.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't know...I rarely notice the difference and when I do notice I can easily compensate. God forbid I actually use my innervate on a 5 man boss fight or maybe I have to actually add regrowth to my stacked HoTs:laugh:. I joke because it very rarely happens even on heroics for most bosses. Maybe that wouldn't be the case if I pugged more, the rogues in my guild were less skilled, or the quality of our gear was much lesser.

If we are talking about raids here, then it is often more strenuous on the healers if we do not have melee because there are always boss fights where melee has a role which they can fulfill the best and if ranged is used then the odds of more pressure being on the healers is increased for one reason or another. It is on a case by case basis. I have experienced that scenario before. With raids, it is always about class balance and variety.

Let's see your tone change if you have to heal 1 warrior and 2 rogues that sit through heavy damage that affects melee ranged combatants only. I'd much rather just have all ranged and not have to worry about it.

Also, I'm not talking about raiding. I don't raid because I can't stand it. I can barely do a 5-man instance without wanting to kill myself by the end. I don't know about you, but I can't stand trash->loot->trash->loot->trash->loot anymore. Combine that with morons and douchebags and you don't get a very fun experience. I'd rather play by myself than with that.

<-- very bitter player

What makes it worse is that the only way to get "better" (gear-wise) in the game is to constantly do these things with morons. You want to do PVE, you get to either spend awhile finding people you can stand or play with idiots... same with BGs and same with Arenas. I just need 4 clones of myself and 3 more accounts and I'll be happy .

 

[ArchAngel777]

I love 5-mans, but *only* when I play them with people I know. I think raiding is really boring... I was in two raid guilds and shortly after joining both I cancelled my account...

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

I did and that's not true. It's perfectly fine to ignore melee DPS in a 5-man. Haven't you ever had a 5-man without melee DPS that went well? I sure have... especially when I'm usually the melee but now I'm the ranged :Q!

Of course, but I never notice a difference in 5 mans with melee which is my point. It boils down to the skill of the players I am running with and the gear they have to a degree. Keep in mind that I run a pug maybe once every 3-4 months tops. I realize it is different in pugs but that is strictly due to skill. It's not class disadvantages.

Originally posted by: Aikouka
I don't think I've ever met someone who doesn't play a melee class (or a specific class) that actually understands it. They like to claim that they do, but they tend to make a lot of assumptions about general ease or how they're played. That's why I cast away general assumptions and I literally play every class. Unfortunately I don't get the option of playing every role, but I do go on the PTR specifically to switch builds and try them out.

Most of my knowledge comes from the melee classes I play with who are very seasoned. If you can trust them then you can trust me. We are also talking about the damage they take being the disadvantage. Being a healer, I understand that damage very well since I need to monitor it more than they do.

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Let's see your tone change if you have to heal 1 warrior and 2 rogues that sit through heavy damage that affects melee ranged combatants only. I'd much rather just have all ranged and not have to worry about it.

Also, I'm not talking about raiding. I don't raid because I can't stand it. I can barely do a 5-man instance without wanting to kill myself by the end. I don't know about you, but I can't stand trash->loot->trash->loot->trash->loot anymore. Combine that with morons and douchebags and you don't get a very fun experience. I'd rather play by myself than with that.

Honestly, it sounds like you just need more experience playing with a good guild. It's amazing how your perspective can change if all of your runs include a great tank and a great healer. I have had to heal 1 war and 2 rogues before, but I never find a case where all three are taking heavy damage in a 5 man ever since they changed cleaves to being a frontal cone. Before that it was a pain but not now. During the few cases where they might take that kind of damage, I will just role lifeblooms on all three of them at the same time. It's constant instant casts but that is the life of a resto druid. I don't find it difficult but I am not falling asleep at the keyboard either. Again, I pretty much only run with my guild and heroics take us about 60-75 minutes each depending on the instance. I know that this sort of thing changes with pugs but again, that is because of their skill.

 

[Anubis]

I did and that's not true. It's perfectly fine to ignore melee DPS in a 5-man. Haven't you ever had a 5-man without melee DPS that went well? I sure have... especially when I'm usually the melee but now I'm the ranged !

2 shadow priest a warlock a druid and a paly

> *.instance

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Anubis

I did and that's not true. It's perfectly fine to ignore melee DPS in a 5-man. Haven't you ever had a 5-man without melee DPS that went well? I sure have... especially when I'm usually the melee but now I'm the ranged !

2 shadow priest a warlock a druid and a paly

> *.instance

I can't argue with that. Having shadow priests that are good at what they do is amazing. They can DPS, they can heal directly or just rely on VE, and they are a mana battery all at the same time. Having two in a 5 man is just insane.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Anubis

I did and that's not true. It's perfectly fine to ignore melee DPS in a 5-man. Haven't you ever had a 5-man without melee DPS that went well? I sure have... especially when I'm usually the melee but now I'm the ranged !

2 shadow priest a warlock a druid and a paly

> *.instance

I can't argue with that. Having shadow priests that are good at what they do is amazing. They can DPS, they can heal directly or just rely on VE, and they are a mana battery all at the same time. Having two in a 5 man is just insane.

we run that to farm badges

the druid is normally like "so what am i supposed to do" and starts meleing with his healing mace

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Anubis

I did and that's not true. It's perfectly fine to ignore melee DPS in a 5-man. Haven't you ever had a 5-man without melee DPS that went well? I sure have... especially when I'm usually the melee but now I'm the ranged !

2 shadow priest a warlock a druid and a paly

> *.instance

I can't argue with that. Having shadow priests that are good at what they do is amazing. They can DPS, they can heal directly or just rely on VE, and they are a mana battery all at the same time. Having two in a 5 man is just insane.

we run that to farm badges

the druid is normally like "so what am i supposed to do" and starts meleing with his healing mace

With free spell damage these days, I can sport almost 1300 healing and nearly 700 spell dmg with my mixed balance and healing gear as a resto druid. That is just the icing on the cake with a badge farming fest like that one.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Of course, but I never notice a difference in 5 mans with melee which is my point. It boils down to the skill of the players I am running with and the gear they have to a degree. Keep in mind that I run a pug maybe once every 3-4 months tops. I realize it is different in pugs but that is strictly due to skill. It's not class disadvantages.

There is an advantage to not bringing a certain class if you can make it easier to avoid excess damage. Sure, a good player can avoid this damage regardless, but not everyone is a seasoned expert.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Most of my knowledge comes from the melee classes I play with who are very seasoned. If you can trust them then you can trust me. We are also talking about the damage they take being the disadvantage. Being a healer, I understand that damage very well since I need to monitor it more than they do.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Honestly, it sounds like you just need more experience playing with a good guild. It's amazing how your perspective can change if all of your runs include a great tank and a great healer. I have had to heal 1 war and 2 rogues before, but I never find a case where all three are taking heavy damage in a 5 man ever since they changed cleaves to being a frontal cone. Before that it was a pain but not now. During the few cases where they might take that kind of damage, I will just role lifeblooms on all three of them at the same time. It's constant instant casts but that is the life of a resto druid. I don't find it difficult but I am not falling asleep at the keyboard either. Again, I pretty much only run with my guild and heroics take us about 60-75 minutes each depending on the instance. I know that this sort of thing changes with pugs but again, that is because of their skill.

First key guy in Mechanar when he goes all Hammer Time and melee don't move. Give that one a whirl in normal gear with normal geared people and see how much fun it is to keep people alive . I used to do more guild playing but that was before I switched servers and I don't really talk in my guilds, unless it's answering questions and I don't always feel like going not to mention it's typically heroics. Since I really don't play characters much after they hit 70, I'm not really poised to do those .

Maybe I should try something new... like playing two characters in Arena at once!

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Maybe I should try something new... like playing two characters in Arena at once!

Please FRAPS this lol

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Please FRAPS this lol

Well, I've been thinking... my warrior is a Night Elf and my priest is a dwarf... do you think that it would be easier if I had two Night Elves so I could shadowmeld a lot? I'm still worried about communication though... it might be hard to convey what I need to do with my "partner" I might wait until I get my new laptop so I can actually use two PCs instead of doing it all on one PC or start playing my warrior+priest combo again to get used to it. My priest has a PVE healing spec so things wouldn't be pretty . My warrior also has a MS spec, but he doesn't have flurry (boo). Maybe I should just wait for my paladin?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Maybe I should try something new... like playing two characters in Arena at once!

Please FRAPS this lol

theres a vid out there of someone quad boxing 4 shaman on a 5 shaman 5v5 team, they were ranked 2000+ last season, 4 ele shamans and 1 resto, 2 people

literally it was lots of totems + lightning overload+ bloodlust+ chainlightning -> lightbolt and a target was dead

 

[Harabec]

And he lives once again.
My ancient hunter, last played...sometime around June 2007. I got him everything I could without doing too many instances.
I kind of lost interest in him, mostly because I'm currently guildless. I love instances but can't spare the time for hardcore item hunting.
Good communication and planning made the runs I did do with my old guild very easy.

I started a new warlock, wish me luck...

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
theres a vid out there of someone quad boxing 4 shaman on a 5 shaman 5v5 team, they were ranked 2000+ last season, 4 ele shamans and 1 resto, 2 people

literally it was lots of totems + lightning overload+ bloodlust+ chainlightning -> lightbolt and a target was dead

Haha I have that video... it's pretty crazy. The thing is, the difficulty of playing two completely different classes is much, much higher than playing 4 of the same class and still having a support guy. I normally just do PVE with the two because PVE is straightforward and doesn't usually deviate if you know how the opponent will react.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Harabec
And he lives once again.
My ancient hunter, last played...sometime around June 2007. I got him everything I could without doing too many instances.
I kind of lost interest in him, mostly because I'm currently guildless. I love instances but can't spare the time for hardcore item hunting.
Good communication and planning made the runs I did do with my old guild very easy.

I started a new warlock, wish me luck...

what race and faction

also did you seriously not have any professions?


on your lock TAILORING and a gathering prof liek mining

 

[ModerateRepZero]

well being a warlock I can say that having 2 shadow priests (hell even one) is amazing for the synergy between Vamp Embrace and Curse of Shadows. Depending on the instance and difficulty, it means that there's shackle and/or seduce or banish for CC as well.

 

[Harabec]

That hunter (night elf) was my first character in WoW. I just enjoyed playing around, doing quests on my own. I tried both Leatherworking and Engineering but found that I wasn't going to get the amount of money I'd have to put into them so I deleted both.
I was happy just playing and never had any difficulty killing stuff.

The warlock will definitely get tailoring and something else.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: ModerateRepZero
well being a warlock I can say that having 2 shadow priests (hell even one) is amazing for the synergy between Vamp Embrace and Curse of Shadows. Depending on the instance and difficulty, it means that there's shackle and/or seduce or banish for CC as well.

and 2 mind controlls

2MCs makes the room before the 2nd boss in H Slabs a joke

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Harabec
That hunter (night elf) was my first character in WoW. I just enjoyed playing around, doing quests on my own. I tried both Leatherworking and Engineering but found that I wasn't going to get the amount of money I'd have to put into them so I deleted both.

I think Blizzard kind of dropped the ball on engineering and leatherworking compared to tailoring. Not saying I won't be making the engineering helms, but they're certainly nothing compared to the tailoring BoP, which also doesn't require a nether... coincidentally, the nether being the only thing I need to make both helms on my warrior. Leatherworking gear isn't horrible, but it doesn't nearly equate to the tailoring gear.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Harabec
That hunter (night elf) was my first character in WoW. I just enjoyed playing around, doing quests on my own. I tried both Leatherworking and Engineering but found that I wasn't going to get the amount of money I'd have to put into them so I deleted both.

I think Blizzard kind of dropped the ball on engineering and leatherworking compared to tailoring. Not saying I won't be making the engineering helms, but they're certainly nothing compared to the tailoring BoP, which also doesn't require a nether... coincidentally, the nether being the only thing I need to make both helms on my warrior. Leatherworking gear isn't horrible, but it doesn't nearly equate to the tailoring gear.

Engineering needs work still but it is slowly improving. Leatherworking is exactly how you describe unless you raid. The best BoP leatherworking stuff drops in raids, but you can also purchase those plans I suppose. There are also BoP plans which produce BoE items which can be used and sold. That's where a lot of the real money is made in LW. You gotta make those BoE items which come from the plans which start to drop in SCC and above. The only challenge at that point is that you normally need Nether Vortexes to make that stuff which normally do not become available to be used for gold until everyone in your guild already gets what they want to use for themselves. To be honest though, pretty much the same can be said about blacksmithing and tailoring although I would agree that tailoring has it best if you do not raid.

 

[Anubis]

Tailoring trumps all for Cloth Casters, Frozen shadoweave / Spellfire and the 2 spellstrike parts basicially mean you gear for 5 slots till you are into T5 content, for a shadow prriest it means you are set in those 5 areas till T6

primal mooncloth/whitemend in many cases is better then the T5 healing set also

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Engineering needs work still but it is slowly improving.

Eh, they gave us a flying mount and they think it's great? The mount doesn't really save you money and it's also very annoying ( noise-wise ). I pissed some people off quite fast by moving left and right quickly for only 5 seconds (it makes clanking noises whenever you initiate a move horizontally).

The helms need to be adjusted so they don't require nethers. If I remember correctly, they originally did not require nethers? Also, some of the helms need to be adjusted because they simply are not that good. The leather melee DPS goggles are really not that great. I can achieve very similar stats simply using the Stalker's Helm of Second Sight and some gems (which is free for me since I have a JC ). I also see the same issue with the Furious Gizmatic (Plate DPS) Goggles. They really don't do much for my stats. Half the reason I want to make them is so I can see the gas clouds on my mini-map without wasting mats on the cloth helm (that also provides that buff). Although I may just make that helm, because seeing the gas clouds in anywhere but Nagrand is more of a pain when you're flying. Nagrand's easy because they're huge, but the rest are kind of like wisp-sized "comets."

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Leatherworking is exactly how you describe unless you raid. The best BoP leatherworking stuff drops in raids, but you can also purchase those plans I suppose. There are also BoP plans which produce BoE items which can be used and sold. That's where a lot of the real money is made in LW. You gotta make those BoE items which come from the plans which start to drop in SCC and above. The only challenge at that point is that you normally need Nether Vortexes to make that stuff which normally do not become available to be used for gold until everyone in your guild already gets what they want to use for themselves. To be honest though, pretty much the same can be said about blacksmithing and tailoring although I would agree that tailoring has it best if you do not raid.

And that's the problem... I don't raid at all so I'll never see these. One of the few benefits is not having to pay an exorbitant amount for things like armor patches.

Also, I find the variety is a bit poor. My Night Elf rogue is a mut/sub spec and my AP isn't too bad at the moment but I need more crit. The LW gear doesn't really provide much in the way of crit but focuses quite heavily on AP. I guess I could just get those and augment the rest of my gear with more crit and less AP... unfortunately from what I recall, the best gear I could find for Mutilate is mostly heroic drops.

Tailoring gear isn't hard to make and is comparable to raiding gear. The only difficult part of the epic tailoring sets is the cooldown time factoring into making all the cloth (which you could just buy and slowly recoup as you make your own cloth or just sell the mats that you would've used for even more money). I barely play my characters and my priest easily has the full primal mooncloth set.

 

[Anubis]

Aikouka
i thought most of those engineering helms were like T5 equivlent

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

The helms need to be adjusted so they don't require nethers. If I remember correctly, they originally did not require nethers? Also, some of the helms need to be adjusted because they simply are not that good. The leather melee DPS goggles are really not that great. I can achieve very similar stats simply using the Stalker's Helm of Second Sight and some gems (which is free for me since I have a JC ). I also see the same issue with the Furious Gizmatic (Plate DPS) Goggles. They really don't do much for my stats. Half the reason I want to make them is so I can see the gas clouds on my mini-map without wasting mats on the cloth helm (that also provides that buff). Although I may just make that helm, because seeing the gas clouds in anywhere but Nagrand is more of a pain when you're flying. Nagrand's easy because they're huge, but the rest are kind of like wisp-sized "comets."

The stats need improvement, but not much. They need to add more guns. The requirement of nethers is fine. They are still epics with good stats even though they are not the best. You still should have to work hard to get them.

Besides, Nethers are easy to get these days since one drops every heroic run and you can buy one for every 10 badges you get. If you do the heroic daily, then that means you can buy a nether every 48 hours and have a chance to roll on two of them within that time frame too. That is not bad at all. If they made it any easier then that would severely bring down the value of the nethers in the market. Think about how terrible that would be for professions that use them as a cornerstone for making profits?

Originally posted by: Aikouka
And that's the problem... I don't raid at all so I'll never see these. One of the few benefits is not having to pay an exorbitant amount for things like armor patches.

Also, I find the variety is a bit poor. My Night Elf rogue is a mut/sub spec and my AP isn't too bad at the moment but I need more crit. The LW gear doesn't really provide much in the way of crit but focuses quite heavily on AP. I guess I could just get those and augment the rest of my gear with more crit and less AP... unfortunately from what I recall, the best gear I could find for Mutilate is mostly heroic drops.

Tailoring gear isn't hard to make and is comparable to raiding gear. The only difficult part of the epic tailoring sets is the cooldown time factoring into making all the cloth (which you could just buy and slowly recoup as you make your own cloth or just sell the mats that you would've used for even more money). I barely play my characters and my priest easily has the full primal mooncloth set.

The variety could use improvement. It's pretty good for feral druids, but it heavily lacks in Boomkin gear and it is about average for resto druids. The hunter gear is pretty good. Shaman gear is ok but not great. It depends on spec for rogues but some of it is awesome!

In the end, I never feel that patterns which do not come from raids should produce much raid quality gear unless the mats require raiding to obtain simply because it is easier. A few pieces is ok but it should be limited. Producing them may take a lot of time, but it is easier in terms of needed skill which is the focal point of my argument here. Anyone can farm mats. Anyone can farm gold to buy nethers and mats. Not everyone can kill Lady Vashj.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
Aikouka
i thought most of those engineering helms were like T5 equivlent

Not in terms of stats... unless T5 is that crappy. Of course I am comparing them ungemmed, but they only have two slots, one of which is a meta gem slot. I'd also have to make the proper comparison gem-wise too as I usually use cheaper gems if the gear isn't much of a "keeper." Although if I recall, the Tankatronic Goggles (Plate Tanking) are pretty good. Furious Gizmatic does raise my stats but by a small amount and I believe it lowers my HP. I mean for the money you put into it... you really don't get all that much out of it.

I'll have to get the exact numbers later today. But the fact is, even Blizzard thinks the SMV helms are too powerful and has stated this. Fortunately, they haven't nerfed them (although I wish they'd add a healing one... I threw some healing gems in the caster one for my priest).

EDIT:

Originally posted by: Xavier434
The stats need improvement, but not much. They need to add more guns. The requirement of nethers is fine. They are still epics with good stats even though they are not the best. You still should have to work hard to get them.

Bah, why don't the tailoring sets require nethers then? The pattern tends to be that BoP crafted items usually don't require the nethers where BoE items tend to.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Besides, Nethers are easy to get these days since one drops every heroic run and you can buy one for every 10 badges you get.

Yeah, but I don't do heroics on any of my characters. No one would want a DPS warrior, so that means I'd have to tank and that means I'd have to get better tanking gear (although with my current set I'm not too bad... 10k hp, 470 def, 10k armor... could use some better stuff but not horrible). Just so much work... I've thought about running Sethekk Halls a lot to get the nether off Ikiss .

Originally posted by: Xavier434
The variety could use improvement. It's pretty good for feral druids, but it heavily lacks in Boomkin gear and it is about average for resto druids. The hunter gear is pretty good. Shaman gear is ok but not great. It depends on spec for rogues but some of it is awesome!

Yeah, I actually wanted to make my druid a Feral LW ('cause I don't have one), but frankly... the feral stuff really doesn't seem all that ... feral. Maybe because the feral tree is all about melee it seems quite awkward that the feral LW epic gear is all healing/damage (there are two separate stats, +healing (with 1/3 damage) and +damage/healing). So it'd be kind of useless for me as a Feral Druid.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
In the end, I never feel that patterns which do not come from raids should produce much raid quality gear unless the mats require raiding to obtain simply because it is easier. A few pieces is ok but it should be limited. Producing them may take a lot of time, but it is easier in terms of needed skill which is the focal point of my argument here. Anyone can farm mats. Anyone can farm gold to buy nethers and mats. Not everyone can kill Lady Vashj.

Well, it's kind of about giving people that don't want to raid decent gear so they're not trumped horribly. It's like the addition of Dungeon Set 2 back in the day... the gear certainly wasn't raid quality, but definitely better than a lot of things that you could get. I think people just want to be able to play the game the way they enjoy and feel like they're accomplishing something. Raiders accomplish it by beating the encounters, PVP'ers do it by attaining high rankings and well... the "casual" or "burn-out" crowd does it by...? I don't know.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Anubis
Aikouka
i thought most of those engineering helms were like T5 equivlent

Not in terms of stats... unless T5 is that crappy.

depending on the class T5 might be that bad, and stats are a strange thing, my lock basicially has no upgrades to get that arnt from 25 man instances, im currently at less then 9K HP with my imp out on my PVE gear