The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS

[AntiFreze]

seems like all of that loot council is more trouble that its worth. with DKP, its straight bid. If you win an item that means you put the time in, and are willing to take that much of a hit when a 2nd item comes around. For the past 2 years that i've been in my guild, we have never had a loot argument (unless its a non-dkp run where we roll, and it was a minor argument).

If a killer tank shield drops and a 2nd offtank happens to have more DKP, he'll usually just pass for guild progression.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
seems like all of that loot council is more trouble that its worth. with DKP, its straight bid. If you win an item that means you put the time in, and are willing to take that much of a hit when a 2nd item comes around. For the past 2 years that i've been in my guild, we have never had a loot argument (unless its a non-dkp run where we roll, and it was a minor argument).

If a killer tank shield drops and a 2nd offtank happens to have more DKP, he'll usually just pass for guild progression.

While DKP makes decision making easier, it does come with a cost. By far, the largest cost that I have noticed with DKP is that it results in the atmosphere of the guild to center much more around loot. Loot becomes the driving force to raid which really sucks in my opinion. Loot being that driving force promotes lust and greed. It takes away from progression and enjoying the content for what it is as being the priority. The game becomes all about loot and less about fun unless loot is your main source of fun for the game. People start to "grind" DKP and they get upset if they cannot grind as much as "the other guy" because 30 people showed up on raid night and you can only bring 25 or something. DKP becomes a currency in your guild. People have waged arguments and war over currency since it first became used by man.

On the other hand, DKP is a fine system for those who obsess over loot and make it their #1 priority in the game. If loot is mostly what you raid for then a guild which uses DKP is probably best for you. DKP will keep these kinds of people in line since numbers are something which cannot be argued against because they are absolute. Our guild doesn't believe these players to be any lesser than us. We just believe that you are not suitable for membership in our particular guild. It is largely a chemistry problem, a difference in goals, and our desire to reduce drama. Drama stems to all sorts of other problems which destroy guilds.

Those guilds with a loot council which breakup due to these problems can mostly blame the people who would be better suited in a guild which uses DKP. These also happen to be the same people in the guild which keep complaining about why a DKP system should be used over their current loot council. The second largest reason would be that the loot council cannot see the whole picture like I explained earlier when it comes to loot distribution.

 

[AntiFreze]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
seems like all of that loot council is more trouble that its worth. with DKP, its straight bid. If you win an item that means you put the time in, and are willing to take that much of a hit when a 2nd item comes around. For the past 2 years that i've been in my guild, we have never had a loot argument (unless its a non-dkp run where we roll, and it was a minor argument).

If a killer tank shield drops and a 2nd offtank happens to have more DKP, he'll usually just pass for guild progression.

While DKP makes decision making easier, it does come with a cost. By far, the largest cost that I have noticed with DKP is that it results in the atmosphere of the guild to center much more around loot. Loot becomes the driving force to raid which really sucks in my opinion. Loot being that driving force promotes lust and greed. It takes away from progression and enjoying the content for what it is as being the priority. The game becomes all about loot and less about fun unless loot is your main source of fun for the game. People start to "grind" DKP and they get upset if they cannot grind as much as "the other guy" because 30 people showed up on raid night and you can only bring 25 or something. DKP becomes a currency in your guild. People have waged arguments and war over currency since it first became used by man.

On the other hand, DKP is a fine system for those who obsess over loot and make it their #1 priority in the game. If loot is mostly what you raid for then a guild which uses DKP is probably best for you. DKP will keep these kinds of people in line since numbers are something which cannot be argued against because they are absolute. Our guild doesn't believe these players to be any lesser than us. We just believe that you are not suitable for membership in our particular guild. It is largely a chemistry problem, a difference in goals, and our desire to reduce drama. Drama stems to all sorts of other problems which destroy guilds.

Those guilds with a loot council which breakup due to these problems can mostly blame those people who belong to guilds that use DKP.

Wow, well put. I can see what you mean now. As a boss is hitting 5% and lower, i think about what could drop, and i have atlas loot up before the fight even starts. lots of people commenting on what they hope drops.

Maybe it's not that bad, but def loot focused. So how do you get into a loot council guild? I can't see them spamming trade seeing how 90% of wow is loot focused.

 

[Aikouka]

I was in a guild with a weird DKP system. It worked where you could gain up to 100 DKP and whoever has the highest DKP wins the item, but you lose all your DKP. Or you could decide to just roll for it and I think it was something like the winner loses 10 DKP.

It was really, really weird and I had never seen a system like it. Not to say I thought it was a good system. I'll have to try to get the exact rules later.

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
I was in a guild with a weird DKP system. It worked where you could gain up to 100 DKP and whoever has the highest DKP wins the item, but you lose all your DKP. Or you could decide to just roll for it and I think it was something like the winner loses 10 DKP.

It was really, really weird and I had never seen a system like it. Not to say I thought it was a good system. I'll have to try to get the exact rules later.

Sounds like Suicide Kings which is a terrible way to do DKP. When I played, we always had the stupid casual players whining they didn't win any of the uber loot and they wanted a system like SK so they had a fair chance. Yet they were more than happy to take all the free epics from MC, sometimes getting 5/8 T1 in one run.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze

Wow, well put. I can see what you mean now. As a boss is hitting 5% and lower, i think about what could drop, and i have atlas loot up before the fight even starts. lots of people commenting on what they hope drops.

Maybe it's not that bad, but def loot focused. So how do you get into a loot council guild? I can't see them spamming trade seeing how 90% of wow is loot focused.

In short summary, it's not easy and you may have to be patient to wait for an opening from a guild which meets your standards.


If I were to hunt for a new guild and I wanted a successful one which uses a loot council then these are some points I would look for in addition to my current requirements and standards:

1. Simply put, do they use a loot council or not? Ask them. If they do, how long have they been using it? Did they used to go with the DKP system? Why did they change?

2. How long has the guild been around? I would directly tie this number in with how long they have been using a loot council.

3. How much have they progressed? Are they actually serious about seeing the content and have a true desire to put in 110% while not caring so much about loot? Their current raid progress can indicate that. I would accept being in any guild which isn't at least half way through SSC at this point, but that is just my standard. I would try to avoid guilds which havnt even finished Kara yet or have barely completed it.


In essence, being that I am well seasoned and well geared I would probably start close to the top of the progression list based on results from wowjutsu or a similar site and just start asking if they are recruiting and if they are then I would have a lot of questions to ask including the ones I mentioned above. Thankfully, I doubt I will ever need to look for one. If my guild leaves WoW for another game then that means I leave WoW too. If our officers all leave then me and a few good people I know will probably take their place and follow the same traditions. I don't take the guild I have for granted and I know I am lucky.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: Aikouka
I was in a guild with a weird DKP system. It worked where you could gain up to 100 DKP and whoever has the highest DKP wins the item, but you lose all your DKP. Or you could decide to just roll for it and I think it was something like the winner loses 10 DKP.

It was really, really weird and I had never seen a system like it. Not to say I thought it was a good system. I'll have to try to get the exact rules later.

Sounds like Suicide Kings which is a terrible way to do DKP. When I played, we always had the stupid casual players whining they didn't win any of the uber loot and they wanted a system like SK so they had a fair chance. Yet they were more than happy to take all the free epics from MC, sometimes getting 5/8 T1 in one run.

that prob what it was and god its horrid, the one we use isnt perfect

all raiders in raidn and on standbuy get DKP and if yo uget subbed you still get it, when an item drops the loot master puts it in chat and bids start, you simply type BID and whoever has the most takes it, sometimes people pass if its the bigger upgrade for the number 2 person, works great for us

i got my T5 chest last night and i was about the 6th person on the DKP list of those who could use it, only 2 people bid so i got it, same thing with my T6 gloves, 4 warlocks in the raid, 3 with more DKP then me however only 2 bid and we had more then the priests/palys who are also on the token so we got them

my personal fave is open style auction style bidding, highest bidder wins, pretty simple, everyone can see bid as they are done in raid chat. used that in my last guild and people frequently zeroed themselfs for items as nothing had a value just a min, 10 for not weps 20 for weps

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock
Sounds like Suicide Kings which is a terrible way to do DKP. When I played, we always had the stupid casual players whining they didn't win any of the uber loot and they wanted a system like SK so they had a fair chance. Yet they were more than happy to take all the free epics from MC, sometimes getting 5/8 T1 in one run.

It kind of sounds like that and the Spend All system listed here:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Variable_price

Originally posted by: Xavier434
3. How much have they progressed? Are they actually serious about seeing the content and have a true desire to put in 110% while not caring so much about loot? Their current raid progress can indicate that. I would accept being in any guild which isn't at least half way through SSC at this point, but that is just my standard. I would try to avoid guilds which havnt even finished Kara yet or have barely completed it.

I think this can be a good thing to do no matter what. Frankly the transition for some guilds from 10 mans to 25 mans turns out to be what kills the guild. If the guild has downed Gruul, maybe Mag and is now working in SSC... you can have a good feeling that you're getting into a stable guild.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Chronoshock
Sounds like Suicide Kings which is a terrible way to do DKP. When I played, we always had the stupid casual players whining they didn't win any of the uber loot and they wanted a system like SK so they had a fair chance. Yet they were more than happy to take all the free epics from MC, sometimes getting 5/8 T1 in one run.

It kind of sounds like that and the Spend All system listed here:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Variable_price

Originally posted by: Xavier434
3. How much have they progressed? Are they actually serious about seeing the content and have a true desire to put in 110% while not caring so much about loot? Their current raid progress can indicate that. I would accept being in any guild which isn't at least half way through SSC at this point, but that is just my standard. I would try to avoid guilds which havnt even finished Kara yet or have barely completed it.

I think this can be a good thing to do no matter what. Frankly the transition for some guilds from 10 mans to 25 mans turns out to be what kills the guild. If the guild has downed Gruul, maybe Mag and is now working in SSC... you can have a good feeling that you're getting into a stable guild.

i can tell you if they can get Mag down before going into SSC they are a sure thing, mag is harder then 2/6 in SSC and 2/4 in TK

 

[AntiFreze]

Thanks Xavier. The timing in my guild could eventual cause me to jump ship, we shall see. (working on 3 hours of sleep for 3 days in a row sucks)

Gemming Question. So I need 2 blue gems for me - combat rogue. EJ guide suggests the 4agi 6sta ones, but then says that any of the following are better:

* [Brutal Tanzanite] (purple) - Heroic Botanica
* [Pulsing Amethyst] (purple) - Nightbane quest
* [Shifting Tanzanite] (purple) - Heroic Steamvault

What are the two best? for increased dmg? i would prefer not to do 4agi 6sta...

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
Thanks Xavier. The timing in my guild could eventual cause me to jump ship, we shall see. (working on 3 hours of sleep for 3 days in a row sucks)

Gemming Question. So I need 2 blue gems for me - combat rogue. EJ guide suggests the 4agi 6sta ones, but then says that any of the following are better:

* [Brutal Tanzanite] (purple) - Heroic Botanica
* [Pulsing Amethyst] (purple) - Nightbane quest
* [Shifting Tanzanite] (purple) - Heroic Steamvault

What are the two best? for increased dmg? i would prefer not to do 4agi 6sta...

IDK what those are for stats but ill look whan i get home if i get home
stupid snow

 

[abaez]

They are nerfing Mag in 2.4. No more infernals phase 1, thirty second cooldown on banishes amongst other things.

To think this guy took so many weeks to get down, the dps requirements right when you hit 70 were insane.

 

[DarkRipper]

We use a simplified DKP system.

Save

Standard

Shroud


Save = 10 points, means you'll take it so it doesn't go to waste, for an offset. Noone else must bid higher for you to win this. If more than one bids "Save" then there's a /roll off.

Standard = 10 points, means you want it but it's not something you really need/must have.
Noone else must bid higher for you to win this. Same rule about multiple bidders.

Shroud = HALF your DKP total. You WANT THIS. If multiple people shroud, then it goes to highest DKP that bid.

Points are awarded based on time spent in the raid, plus a point for being on time and a point for leaving the raid at scheduled end time.

 

[AntiFreze]

sorry, guess im not the only one being filtered.

here is are the stats (yay for google cache):

* [Brutal Tanzanite] (purple) - Heroic Botanica = +10 Attack Power and +6 Stamina
* [Pulsing Amethyst] (purple) - Nightbane quest = +10 Attack Power and +6 Stamina
* [Shifting Tanzanite] (purple) - Heroic Steamvault = +5 Strength and +4 Agility

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
stupid snow

For sure, I should transfer down to Florida .

One thing to consider in gems is to try to get the heroic ones and get more than one, because in 2.4 they will no longer be Unique-Equipped (this means you can carry more now too, just can't equip more). I'd say it depends on whether or not you want more HP. If you want more HP, go with the AP+Stam gems. If not, go with the Str+Agil gem. Not to mention pure stats (+agil, +str) > effects (+ap) when it comes to raiding if you can get Kings. Also, don't forget that you sometimes do not need to fill the proper colored sockets unless the bonus is really that good.

You probably aren't in a scenario like this, but my Shaman tends to get items with mp5 as a bonus. I just /laugh @ them and put all strength gems into it.

 

[AntiFreze]

true true. but almost all rogues equipment is worth the socket. unless its blue gems for dodge. What should my stamina be for being 3/6 in SSC and 1/4 in TK? And im primarily doing the blue gems to get the 2yellow 2red 2blue requirement to switch out my Meta gem. I currently use the 24AP + minor run and I want to switch to the 12agi +3 increased crit damage

 

[Anubis]

i just realized we went past 1k posts, sweet

bulk beef here we come

anyway antifreze if you can get one from bot of the night bane ques done use them if not just use the normal ones, unless you need hit, hit is always nice

 

[StepUp]

Does anyone play on Hakkar? I am thinking of starting characters on that server, but I'd like to play with someone if possible. I will be making a Horde Warrior most likely.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Anubis
i can tell you if they can get Mag down before going into SSC they are a sure thing, mag is harder then 2/6 in SSC and 2/4 in TK

Excellent point. I didn't consider that. More or less, I would say that if the guild has completed more than void rever and lurker in SSC then you are looking at something descent too, but Mag is more insurance.

Originally posted by: abaez
They are nerfing Mag in 2.4. No more infernals phase 1, thirty second cooldown on banishes amongst other things.

To think this guy took so many weeks to get down, the dps requirements right when you hit 70 were insane.

I didn't think the DPS reqs were bad. That fight was all about coordination and there were more roles to fulfill than any fight up until that point. Cube clicking alone requires the average guilds to pay more attention to detail than ever. Still, I am kinda glad they are nerfing him just because he has been around long enough for Blizz to flip the easy mode switch.

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
What should my stamina be for being 3/6 in SSC and 1/4 in TK?

What are you at now? Rogues really don't take a whole lot of damage for most of SSC/TK. At least, it isn't enough to gimp your DPS for it. I think a typical rule of thumb is to be at no less than 8K? Maybe 9K? Not sure how much stam rogues get normally. In any case, you will find that only a few encounters would benefit from you having more stam than usual so what I would do for those cases is try and gather a few stam pieces which also have good DPS stats. S1 Arena gear is perfect for this but there are other ways too.

 

[Aikouka]

You know it's going to be painful when your (relatively) undergeared mage has to stop his initial scorches because they're about to out-aggro the tank. My warrior in blues and greens keeps better aggro than that and he's arms-fury! Best part was, it was Arcatraz that we were doing... and I made a remark like, "I hope we don't get the imp" and someone tries to be smart and tell me, "they're the same every time" (and of course they're not), but unfortunately we got the imp where I don't think any healer that hasn't done him realizes that the imp hits like a truck without any FR. I know the first time I did that on my priest, I just kind of twiddled my thumbs then said, "holy shit!" when the health just started droppin'.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
You know it's going to be painful when your (relatively) undergeared mage has to stop his initial scorches because they're about to out-aggro the tank. My warrior in blues and greens keeps better aggro than that and he's arms-fury! Best part was, it was Arcatraz that we were doing... and I made a remark like, "I hope we don't get the imp" and someone tries to be smart and tell me, "they're the same every time" (and of course they're not), but unfortunately we got the imp where I don't think any healer that hasn't done him realizes that the imp hits like a truck without any FR. I know the first time I did that on my priest, I just kind of twiddled my thumbs then said, "holy shit!" when the health just started droppin'.

At least you can drink between each fight though. I would just spam away.

 

[Aikouka]

Oh I just twiddle my thumbs because I'm bored and most of the time, the people don't need much healing. Heck, they need so little that I DPS inbetween the heals :laugh:. Also, until last night, I thought the mobs were staggered spawns that always came one after another... nope, they're most certainly on a timer. Because of holding back so much on DPS, the warden started opening another cell before we were even done with the first guy. Thankfully, cell #2 is my buddy the definitely-not-lowly Millhouse Manastorm!

Although I do always get a laugh when I see him throw a pyroblast at the drakkonid guy since he's kind of immune to fire .

 

[invidia]

This 2h sword from KJ: http://www.worldofraids.com/20.../kiljaeden/apolyon.jpg

is sick beyond belief. The S4 weapons won't hit anywhere near 148dps.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: invidia
This 2h sword from KJ: http://www.worldofraids.com/20.../kiljaeden/apolyon.jpg

is sick beyond belief. The S4 weapons won't hit anywhere near 148dps.

m more excited about this thing
http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=34470

i have 5 spells that can make that go off 3-4 i cast on almost every single mob

LOLOLOLOLOOLOL

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
m more excited about this thing
http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=34470

i have 5 spells that can make that go off 3-4 i cast on almost every single mob

LOLOLOLOLOOLOL

You're going to look like old Doom Lord Kazzak firing off shadowbolts at everybody :Q!

I'm also glad they threw all red sockets in that nice sword. Red Sockets means +strength gems!!