The AT World of Warcraft Thread (Where do you play) and general BS

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Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
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Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Xavier434
If they wanted to nerf us then they should have nerfed Cyclone or Roots somehow. The HoTs really are not an issue

IMO 1 HOT outhealing the damage done buy 4 DOTs is an issue

That is not the case unless the +healing of the druid is a hell of a lot better in comparison to the spell damage of the DPS casting the DoTs. Now, if you take into consideration the amount that is healed by a Rejuv spell followed by a swiftmend right before the Rejuv ends then you can probably do that easily and especially if the swiftmend crits.

However, this is why swiftmend has a cooldown and it is also why the amount of +healing needed to pull this off against equally formidable opponents is so much to the point where you can forget about acting as a Healing/DPS hybrid properly. It also means that the rejuv must last the full time period for it to tick which is asking a lot in the arena. You can still be very effective due to Roots, Cyclone, and the run speed increase though which allows the druid to take advantage of the whole idea behind HoTs which is time itself.

Thus, my belief is that if you wish to nerf druids then nerf the speed (which they did) and nerf the CC abilities. From there, the skill of the opposition should be enough to bring druids down to a balanced level. On top of that, it will not effect PvE nearly as much since our CC is nearly useless in almost all dungeons and raids.

That plus you already mentioned that LB does not permit swiftmend anyways.

 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
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tbqhwy.com
rejuv and lifebloom will out heal the 3/4 dots i can cast as SL/Sl with 1100 spell damage on their own, + they can be cecursed and dispelled

ive actually watched this happen, a resto druid PVP spec with maybe 200 resil dueling a rogue in full S3 pvp gear just stood there in human form casting hots and such on himself killed the rogue with thorns, thats it the druid never attacked and the rogue ended up killing himself, sorry but IMO that a lil ridicilous, i realize its not balanced around 1v1 but druids do need to be looked at seriously
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
rejuv and lifebloom will out heal the 3/4 dots i can cast as SL/Sl with 1100 spell damage on their own, + they can be cecursed and dispelled

ive actually watched this happen, a resto druid PVP spec with maybe 200 resil dueling a rogue in full S3 pvp gear just stood there in human form casting hots and such on himself killed the rogue with thorns, thats it the druid never attacked and the rogue ended up killing himself, sorry but IMO that a lil ridicilous, i realize its not balanced around 1v1 but druids do need to be looked at seriously

LB can be dispelled too and I think Rejuv can as well.

In regards to your druid vs rogue scenario, I would have to see that to believe it. I have no idea why proper use and timing of stun locking, application of poisons, and combo points did not win him that battle. Most likely, what you saw was a difference in skill and not so much balance.


***EDIT***

Also, it is not an unknown idea that mages and locks are not at an advantage point over druids. That's not a balance issue. Just like resto druids will have a very difficult time handling a DPS War, mages and locks will have trouble with druids. The idea is to get your team to kill each class properly and in a particular order. This whole thing boils down once again to the team not acting like a single unit. Too much 1vs1 comparison when it comes to evaluating balance is not a good thing. We do not want all of the classes to be the same. That would be boring.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Regardless of anyone's opinion about our HoTs, I still firmly believe that if a problem is Arena/PvP related then fix it in the Arena/PvP environment and leave PvE out of it.
 

Lamont Burns

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2002
2,836
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Only if the rogue just auto attacked with no wound poison would that even work. On my warrior in about full S3 I can gib a non form druid very fast, regardless of HoTs.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
I was just browsing the warrior forum as it's the only class I wasn't sure what spec I was going to go with (was a MSer before and going DW fury this time). While reading I found a discussion on soloing the old L60 instances. I figured these would be fairly easy farmed after the next level increase, but I was somewhat surprised to hear people saying they are doing 30 minute solo strat runs now. The latest hi level gear must really be godsend stuff.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: Lamont Burns
Only if the rogue just auto attacked with no wound poison would that even work. On my warrior in about full S3 I can gib a non form druid very fast, regardless of HoTs.

Rogues and Warriors tear me apart. Shadow Priests usually do too and they rely on DoTs and debuffs. The only time I really stand a chance at surviving (not killing mind you) a rogue or warrior as a resto druid is if I manage to CC them fast enough or if they mess up to the point where I can get away in travel form. Travel form usually only works if my NS cooldown is up so I can get a quick HT in though. Even Rejuv + swiftmend + travel doesnt work against a rogue because by the time the stun lock ends they have enough combo point to finish me off even after I heal. Not to mention that the rogue is usually accompanied by additional DoTs from other classes.
 

Lamont Burns

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2002
2,836
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Originally posted by: lupi
I was just browsing the warrior forum as it's the only class I wasn't sure what spec I was going to go with (was a MSer before and going DW fury this time). While reading I found a discussion on soloing the old L60 instances. I figured these would be fairly easy farmed after the next level increase, but I was somewhat surprised to hear people saying they are doing 30 minute solo strat runs now. The latest hi level gear must really be godsend stuff.

Warrior isn't the fastest I imagine but some things are doable. I have 13k HPs unbuffed and about 1700 AP w/o battle shout. Using Sweeping Strikes on packs is laughable with a 127 DPS 2 hander.

Never tried on a warrior... 30 mins for a clear of either side seems pretty ambitious tho.
 

AntiFreze

Golden Member
Oct 23, 2007
1,459
0
0
wait wait wait.... so concerning this:

# Improved Backstab is now called Puncturing Wounds.
# Puncturing Wounds increases your critical strike chance with Backstab by 10/20/30%, and the critical strike chance with your Mutilate ability by 5/10/15%.

Does that mean that daggers might meet or surpass a combat sword spec now? I haven't switched yet, but would prefer to stay daggers if possible....
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: AntiFreze
wait wait wait.... so concerning this:

# Improved Backstab is now called Puncturing Wounds.
# Puncturing Wounds increases your critical strike chance with Backstab by 10/20/30%, and the critical strike chance with your Mutilate ability by 5/10/15%.

Does that mean that daggers might meet or surpass a combat sword spec now? I haven't switched yet, but would prefer to stay daggers if possible....

The answer to this question will only be known for a fact after someone from elitestjerks or another math wiz runs some tests. No one here will be able to tell you for certain. If I were you, I would just respec to swords for now and respec again after 2.4 if daggers turns out to be king.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Shamans have to be the most bitter class I know when it comes to PvP. I'm not going to argue one way or another in regards to that bitterness being justified, but I do believe that we will see more Shamans switch their mains permanently to Deathknights than any other class.
 

AntiFreze

Golden Member
Oct 23, 2007
1,459
0
0
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: AntiFreze
wait wait wait.... so concerning this:

# Improved Backstab is now called Puncturing Wounds.
# Puncturing Wounds increases your critical strike chance with Backstab by 10/20/30%, and the critical strike chance with your Mutilate ability by 5/10/15%.

Does that mean that daggers might meet or surpass a combat sword spec now? I haven't switched yet, but would prefer to stay daggers if possible....

The answer to this question will only be known for a fact after someone from elitestjerks or another math wiz runs some tests. No one here will be able to tell you for certain. If I were you, I would just respec to swords for now and respec again after 2.4 if daggers turns out to be king.

good point. only problem is that I don't have swords atm... so I would have to get lucky on a roll win for the spiteblade and spend 9k honor on the offhand S1, or drop a lot of DKP from the 1h off of tidewalker. I'd hate to drop 9k honor and 75% of the DKP, just to spec out of swords in 4 weeks.

I'll prolly see how it goes on elitistjerks
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
My brother solos a lot of the 60's instances on his warrior as a prot warrior . He abuses the hell out of the trinket from Kargath ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529 ... http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=27529 ) and I'm quite sure a Paladin could abuse it even worse . Especially if you combine it with... http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30300 / http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=30300 !

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
Does that mean that daggers might meet or surpass a combat sword spec now? I haven't switched yet, but would prefer to stay daggers if possible....

That's a mutilate buff not a backstab buff.

EDIT: To clarify, the new talent is the same as Improved Backstab except it also provides +crit chance for mutilate too... therefore, a combat daggers build will not change.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Shamans have to be the most bitter class I know when it comes to PvP. I'm not going to argue one way or another in regards to that bitterness being justified, but I do believe that we will see more Shamans switch their mains permanently to Deathknights than any other class.

Judging by the shaman forum, most already have rerolled. While it used to be full of bitter shamans commiserating, there's now 5 resto-spec PvE-focused shamans for every 1 bitter shaman, telling them to l2p. Me, I rerolled a mage. Giving up a release-day main after 2 and a half years was hard, but pvping was harder.

Now, once in a while, I log onto him and heal a heroic or kara pug for shits and giggles. There's nothing wrong at all with shaman pve healing, but it isn't why I rolled the game's offensive hybrid.

Edit: My shaman is an enchanter, I just sharded all his dps / pvp gear. The 10 voids and 5 LPSs funded my mage's belt of blasting mats nicely ^_^
 

AntiFreze

Golden Member
Oct 23, 2007
1,459
0
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
My brother solos a lot of the 60's instances on his warrior as a prot warrior . He abuses the hell out of the trinket from Kargath ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529 ... http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=27529 ) and I'm quite sure a Paladin could abuse it even worse . Especially if you combine it with... http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30300 / http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=30300 !

Originally posted by: AntiFreze
Does that mean that daggers might meet or surpass a combat sword spec now? I haven't switched yet, but would prefer to stay daggers if possible....

That's a mutilate buff not a backstab buff.

Improved Backstab increases your critical strike chancIe with Backstab by 10/20/30%. I see that as a backstab buff. my current cycle only deals with backstabs, white damage, and rupture/evisc. 30% increased to backstab would make it a 60% that I will crit on my next backstab. I see this as a combat dagger buff as well as a mutilate.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: AntiFreze
Improved Backstab increases your critical strike chancIe with Backstab by 10/20/30%. I see that as a backstab buff. my current cycle only deals with backstabs, white damage, and rupture/evisc. 30% increased to backstab would make it a 60% that I will crit on my next backstab. I see this as a combat dagger buff as well as a mutilate.

Alright... I guess I have to point this out the hard way...

Improved Backstab Rank 3
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.

Puncturing Wounds Rank 3
Increases your critical strike chance with Backstab by 30%, and the critical strike chance with your Mutilate ability by 15%.

IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU

EDIT:

This of course goes on the fact that all combat dagger rogues should already have Improved Backstab anyway. If you don't, your spec is already flawed.
 

AntiFreze

Golden Member
Oct 23, 2007
1,459
0
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: AntiFreze
Improved Backstab increases your critical strike chancIe with Backstab by 10/20/30%. I see that as a backstab buff. my current cycle only deals with backstabs, white damage, and rupture/evisc. 30% increased to backstab would make it a 60% that I will crit on my next backstab. I see this as a combat dagger buff as well as a mutilate.

Alright... I guess I have to point this out the hard way...

Improved Backstab Rank 3
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.

Puncturing Wounds Rank 3
Increases your critical strike chance with Backstab by 30%, and the critical strike chance with your Mutilate ability by 15%.

IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU

EDIT:

This of course goes on the fact that all combat dagger rogues should already have Improved Backstab anyway. If you don't, your spec is already flawed.

oooooohhhhh..... hehe, thought it mean an additional 30%.

my mistake - on to swords
 

Lamont Burns

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2002
2,836
0
0
Originally posted by: CKent
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Shamans have to be the most bitter class I know when it comes to PvP. I'm not going to argue one way or another in regards to that bitterness being justified, but I do believe that we will see more Shamans switch their mains permanently to Deathknights than any other class.

Judging by the shaman forum, most already have rerolled. While it used to be full of bitter shamans commiserating, there's now 5 resto-spec PvE-focused shamans for every 1 bitter shaman, telling them to l2p. Me, I rerolled a mage. Giving up a release-day main after 2 and a half years was hard, but pvping was harder.

Now, once in a while, I log onto him and heal a heroic or kara pug for shits and giggles. There's nothing wrong at all with shaman pve healing, but it isn't why I rolled the game's offensive hybrid.

Edit: My shaman is an enchanter, I just sharded all his dps / pvp gear. The 10 voids and 5 LPSs funded my mage's belt of blasting mats nicely ^_^

Former shaman main, rerolled/picked up a different 60 as soon as I got into TBC Beta and ran him to 70 to see what it was like. It was a great decision, no regrets.

 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I don't mind my shaman too much as he's enhancement, but I don't expect him to be too good at PVP to be honest . I just put up with the crappy times to get S1 welfare epics ( or actually I had to get the blue axe first since there were no welfare epics at the time ).

Not a huge fan of being a Space Cow though... they walk so... umm stick-up-ass-ity?
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: CKent
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Shamans have to be the most bitter class I know when it comes to PvP. I'm not going to argue one way or another in regards to that bitterness being justified, but I do believe that we will see more Shamans switch their mains permanently to Deathknights than any other class.

Judging by the shaman forum, most already have rerolled. While it used to be full of bitter shamans commiserating, there's now 5 resto-spec PvE-focused shamans for every 1 bitter shaman, telling them to l2p. Me, I rerolled a mage. Giving up a release-day main after 2 and a half years was hard, but pvping was harder.

Now, once in a while, I log onto him and heal a heroic or kara pug for shits and giggles. There's nothing wrong at all with shaman pve healing, but it isn't why I rolled the game's offensive hybrid.

Edit: My shaman is an enchanter, I just sharded all his dps / pvp gear. The 10 voids and 5 LPSs funded my mage's belt of blasting mats nicely ^_^

I'm not surprised. Personally, I am hoping that the Deathknight class offers people who rolled a Shaman what they were looking for in the first place if their reasons were something other than PvE healing.

Of course, that begs the question of what they are planning for the remaining two trees for the Shaman class for WotLK. I have a suspicion that those trees will either be changed drastically or the challenges in WotLK will change the game in such a way that distinguishes the two classes much more than it seems from an outsider's POV looking in.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
yea shamans got hit hard, resiliance made 2H enhancement shamans worthless, i miss the days of chain WF procs that all crit, ele shamans got knocked down a fep pegs but still do well in 3vs and 5vs mainily because of bloodlust/heroism, but they can do some pretty serious spike damage and their totems are usefull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDcoh4kZJUU
 

invidia

Platinum Member
Oct 8, 2006
2,151
1
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
yea shamans got hit hard, resiliance made 2H enhancement shamans worthless, i miss the days of chain WF procs that all crit, ele shamans got knocked down a fep pegs but still do well in 3vs and 5vs mainily because of bloodlust/heroism, but they can do some pretty serious spike damage and their totems are usefull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDcoh4kZJUU

I remember that video. And to think, that was shitload of damage back then. My sub PvP rogue's white damage hits hard than that. Upwards of 1300 in white auto crits. 1500s in PVE gear.
 

DarkRipper

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2000
1,351
0
71
Originally posted by: AntiFreze
wait wait wait.... so concerning this:

# Improved Backstab is now called Puncturing Wounds.
# Puncturing Wounds increases your critical strike chance with Backstab by 10/20/30%, and the critical strike chance with your Mutilate ability by 5/10/15%.

Does that mean that daggers might meet or surpass a combat sword spec now? I haven't switched yet, but would prefer to stay daggers if possible....

No, daggers are still not as good as swords. This didn't do anything for a combat dagger build, actually. It's more of a buff to mutilate.


/edit bah I see other people already responded. This is what I get for not reading all responses
 
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