You touched on one of the reasons - the recognition that the Republicans would have done much the same. We always try to shape events to our benefit, and it's often a dog's breakfast because often there is no good side and sometimes not even a less bad side. That said, should we really get all up in arms and throw out the bums in favor of the other bums? Seems to me that in a two-party system, the only reason to get really up in arms is when the party in power is doing something the party out of power would not do. If for instance we successfully removed Obama and Biden and crowned President Boehner, would we be sending a powerful message that such behavior is unacceptable, or just legitimizing it for Boehner? (I mean after he stopped crying, obviously. I doubt anyone could understand him the first couple of days.)
Man, I hope you got paid for that post since you hit pretty much every Democrat taking point. Pelosi could not have done better.
1. Blame the dead guy.
2. Blame Republicans cutting funding. (Or not increasing funding as much as asked.)
3. Blame partisanship.
4. Assert that we'll never know what happened.
5. Blame Republicans again.
I think it's virtually a certainty that multiple people made mistakes. Very few spectacular failures occur from a single person's single mistake, and especially given the habitual secrecy and turf wars it's surprising that more such mistakes don't happen. Ideally the minimum acceptable for an ambassador would be a reinforced Marine squad with an available QRF and a reaction force, all with attached transportation, and a plan to reinforce with the QRF within an hour and the larger reaction force with twenty-four hours. This is simply sound military planning. But there are always other concerns and competing needs, and I suspect someone up the chain scrimped on security thinking that the CIA station nearby could and would provide a QRF. If memory serves, the CIA station until soon before the attack was larger; unfortunately State is not in the CIA's chain of command, so a reduction or relocation in CIA personnel does not necessarily show up on State's radar. I think it's also likely that there's an element of a calculated risk here as well. And possibly there are concerns they thought valid, such as gun running, that need to be kept secret. Whichever, I think it's likely that Benghazi is not a major scandal.
It's sad that a President lying for political benefit about the murder of a US Ambassador seems to me no more than a minor scandal, but that far predates Obama. Romney (who was my guy) was using the attack for political advantage as well, and I fully believe that President McCain would have also spun the most advantageous story he thought he could get away with.
I'd admit that is an odd path to take, but don't forget that was added to his mandate; Starr didn't just look around for something to prosecute.Oddly enough possum you & I are saying the same thing. Ambassador Stevens did ask for mostly local security forces and he did request to keep that embassy open. These facts don't change that maybe someone should have said no you can't.
Embassies budgets were trimmed by whom and why we'll probably never know
You have to admit that the starr report jumping from a suspicious land transaction to the President fooling around with an intern to sequestering DNA stained dresses is an odd path to take.
I'd admit that is an odd path to take, but don't forget that was added to his mandate; Starr didn't just look around for something to prosecute.
I'm not sure what you mean. Dick Cheney seems to be all about the fact that Obama's team fell down.Seems like beating a dead horse at this point if you can't even get Cheney to back you on this one.
I mean, seriously.
There were many calls for help by the United States Ambassador to Libya in Benghazi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Christopher_Stevens
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...of-requests-for-greater-security-in-benghazi/
They were ignored.
And then a cover-up was started. Obama, as embarrassed as could be, for failing yet again, tasked his minions to lie to the American Public.
-John
My understanding is that there were repeated calls from the ambassador for help.
These were ignored by Obama and Hillary.
The House Intelligence Committee, led by Republicans, has concluded that there was no deliberate wrongdoing by the Obama administration in the 2012 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, that killed Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans, said Rep. Mike Thompson of St. Helena, the second-ranking Democrat on the committee.
-- "There was no 'stand-down order' given to American personnel attempting to offer assistance that evening, no illegal activity or illegal arms transfers occurring by U.S. personnel in Benghazi, and no American was left behind."
-- The administration's process for developing "talking points" was "flawed, but the talking points reflected the conflicting intelligence assessments in the days immediately following the crisis."
Um, having investigated and concluded that there was no intentional wrongdoing /= officially trolled. Should we really not have had House investigations over the killing of a US Ambassador, something not seen since the Carter days?OK, everyone can go home now. You've all been officially trolled by the GOP, hope you enjoyed it.
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I'll just quote the important part:
The GOP controlled and lead the committee, yet they all agreed there was no conspiracy.
I must say I am shocked that all the posters claiming all sorts of conspiracies were trolled and lied to by the GOP. I am sure that all the guilty members will of course in the future not blindly believe everything they read at Drudge, Fox News, and other sites and blindly come here to repeat it like a parrot.
Um, having investigated and concluded that there was no intentional wrongdoing /= officially trolled. Should we really not have had House investigations over the killing of a US Ambassador, something not seen since the Carter days?
On the bright side, this is about what I thought. Yes, they issued a statement they knew was false, but it was the least politically damaging one selected from several reasonable possibilities. That's politics, not a scandal, clinging to the most favorable (or least unfavorable) explanation as long as is viable.
OK, everyone can go home now. You've all been officially trolled by the GOP, hope you enjoyed it.
Link
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I'll just quote the important part:
The GOP controlled and lead the committee, yet they all agreed there was no conspiracy.
I must say I am shocked that all the posters claiming all sorts of conspiracies were trolled and lied to by the GOP. I am sure that all the guilty members will of course in the future not blindly believe everything they read at Drudge, Fox News, and other sites and blindly come here to repeat it like a parrot.
lol. Reading back through this thread with the eventual outcome in mind is either hilarious, scary, or depressing.
OK, everyone can go home now. You've all been officially trolled by the GOP, hope you enjoyed it.
Link
Link
I'll just quote the important part:
The GOP controlled and lead the committee, yet they all agreed there was no conspiracy.
I must say I am shocked that all the posters claiming all sorts of conspiracies were trolled and lied to by the GOP. I am sure that all the guilty members will of course in the future not blindly believe everything they read at Drudge, Fox News, and other sites and blindly come here to repeat it like a parrot.
Um, having investigated and concluded that there was no intentional wrongdoing /= officially trolled. Should we really not have had House investigations over the killing of a US Ambassador, something not seen since the Carter days?
Um, having investigated and concluded that there was no intentional wrongdoing /= officially trolled. Should we really not have had House investigations over the killing of a US Ambassador, something not seen since the Carter days?
On the bright side, this is about what I thought. Yes, they issued a statement they knew was false, but it was the least politically damaging one selected from several reasonable possibilities. That's politics, not a scandal, clinging to the most favorable (or least unfavorable) explanation as long as is viable.
I'd guess they are starting another because there are still Republican politicians who think they will benefit politically from holding yet another hearing on it, regardless of whether they find anything. This is politics, same as deciding to blame the deaths on a "spontaneous riot" even though they knew immediately it was not that at all. One side decides to spin the most politically advantageous explanation for them as long as spinning it IS politically advantageous; the other side decides to spin the most politically advantageous explanation for them as long as spinning that is politically advantageous. It's never been about the truth for either side, and it never will be.Yes, it was trolling. Everyone knew all along that there was no conspiracy. And what about the other GOP-lead investigations that found the same results before now?
What about Issa lying about this for the past year?
What about two months ago, when the GOP appointed yet another committee to investigate this all over again?
What about all the GOP people talking about it on Fox?
So we have what, 2 or 3 investigation now complete and all agree about the facts. So why is the GOP starting another? Why are they still on Fox talking about it?
Care to comment on these facts? Are you being willfully ignorant yet again?
Yes, trolled, because Issa knew all this long ago but continued to act as if he didn't. Meanwhile, you ate it up.
I'd guess they are starting another because there are still Republican politicians who think they will benefit politically from holding yet another hearing on it, regardless of whether they find anything. This is politics, same as deciding to blame the deaths on a "spontaneous riot" even though they knew immediately it was not that at all. One side decides to spin the most politically advantageous explanation for them as long as spinning it IS politically advantageous; the other side decides to spin the most politically advantageous explanation for them as long as spinning that is politically advantageous. It's never been about the truth for either side, and it never will be.
This is why I wasn't outraged from the get-go even though it was clear the administration was lying. It's just politics, both sides are doing it, and unfortunately it's been a long time since politicians lying and spinning has risen to the level of a scandal, if indeed such a time ever existed.
I'd guess they are starting another because there are still Republican politicians who think they will benefit politically from holding yet another hearing on it, regardless of whether they find anything. This is politics, same as deciding to blame the deaths on a "spontaneous riot" even though they knew immediately it was not that at all. One side decides to spin the most politically advantageous explanation for them as long as spinning it IS politically advantageous; the other side decides to spin the most politically advantageous explanation for them as long as spinning that is politically advantageous. It's never been about the truth for either side, and it never will be.
This is why I wasn't outraged from the get-go even though it was clear the administration was lying. It's just politics, both sides are doing it, and unfortunately it's been a long time since politicians lying and spinning has risen to the level of a scandal, if indeed such a time ever existed.
OK, everyone can go home now. You've all been officially trolled by the GOP, hope you enjoyed it.
Link
Link
I'll just quote the important part:
The GOP controlled and lead the committee, yet they all agreed there was no conspiracy.
I must say I am shocked that all the posters claiming all sorts of conspiracies were trolled and lied to by the GOP. I am sure that all the guilty members will of course in the future not blindly believe everything they read at Drudge, Fox News, and other sites and blindly come here to repeat it like a parrot.
Hilarity that many of us knew was in the mail, and here it is. Question is, will any of the GOP sockpuppets learn from this in any way?
So, how many GOP circles jerks going down in flames (no pun intended) does this make? I've lost count. It's like they've all received doctorates in How To Be Wrong All the Time. With a minor in Looking Like Fools and Hypocrites.
Pretty sure those are actual courses at Regent University too.