BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 9,140
- 67
- 91
Hope the seller decides to sell it to you for your bid price Rollo.
Larry-
If you are familiar with signal theory then why are we even having this discussion? Full Scene Anti Aliasing. MSAA is not full scene or even close to it. Comparing bilinear filtering to MSAA bilinear is a lot closer to a full scene implementation then MSAA, and not too many people would try to put forth the bilinear passes for FSAA. All of the sites that use FSAA for MSAA are using the term improperly.
Now if you want to say that MSAA is FSAA then it is akin to saying nVidia's 6800 parts have a perfectly working video processor as they do accelerate numerous elements of video processing- on a percentage basis they accelerate more of the video processing then MSAA filters out aliasing.
If it was an issue with MS's compiler then you would be able to utilize it through assembly which you can't. The quote you pulled up from ATi is PR spin control.
I have. Anand is by no means an expert on 3D technology. I also have taken the issue up with the guys over at B3D and I don't recall them ever disagreeing with the fact that calling MSAA FSAA is incorrect(but most people mistakenly call it that so it remains).
No, ATi's implementation does not apply AA to every pixel on screen even when using MSAA and AF. Their adaptive AF fails to filter large portions of the screen properly(as does nVidia's current solution) but ignoring that MSAA+AF does nothing to filter alpha textures use to simulate geometry. Go ahead and check it yourself.
The hardware is non functional on R3x0 hardware. I can't say if the R9700 states it has FSAA on the box as I don't have one around I can check.
No, I don't think it means anything at all. When I first picked up a R9500Pro I was repeatedly griping about the seriously screwed up AF filtering and the amount of aliasing it introduced. All of the sites you mentioned talked about how much more detail the AF of the R3x0 core added to the scene compared to the rest of the current parts. I got my R9800Pro and was still going off about how poor the AF was on the R3x0 core and again those same three sites you listed off denied it was a problem and there was nothing wrong with it- it was in fact superior to the other offerings. Then 3D Center wrote an article about the low quality blending accuracy that ATi uses on their filtering blending operations and demonstrated how this introduced noticeable aliasing and reduced quality compared to the competition. If everyone simply decided that they were mistaken because Anand, Tom and Dave say something different then numerous issues wouldn't ever be figured out.
Larry-
If you are familiar with signal theory then why are we even having this discussion? Full Scene Anti Aliasing. MSAA is not full scene or even close to it. Comparing bilinear filtering to MSAA bilinear is a lot closer to a full scene implementation then MSAA, and not too many people would try to put forth the bilinear passes for FSAA. All of the sites that use FSAA for MSAA are using the term improperly.
Now if you want to say that MSAA is FSAA then it is akin to saying nVidia's 6800 parts have a perfectly working video processor as they do accelerate numerous elements of video processing- on a percentage basis they accelerate more of the video processing then MSAA filters out aliasing.
So, according that, ATI is limited in their capability to implement support for the F-buffer and expose it via DirectX, because MS controls the DirectX HLSL compilier. Whereas ATI controls the GLSL compilier implementation, and will expose it that way.
It certainly doesn't sound like it is defective in hardware, which was your original assertion.
If it was an issue with MS's compiler then you would be able to utilize it through assembly which you can't. The quote you pulled up from ATi is PR spin control.
Well, why don't you directly take that up with Anand then - if he is incorrect in his usage?
I have. Anand is by no means an expert on 3D technology. I also have taken the issue up with the guys over at B3D and I don't recall them ever disagreeing with the fact that calling MSAA FSAA is incorrect(but most people mistakenly call it that so it remains).
I personally think that you have your terminology slightly mistaken, as FSAA based on MSAA and AF, does result in every pixels on the screen being anti-aliased in some way, although perhaps not offering as high a quality output as SSAA would, but of course that has 4x the memory-bandwidth cost compared to no AA.
No, ATi's implementation does not apply AA to every pixel on screen even when using MSAA and AF. Their adaptive AF fails to filter large portions of the screen properly(as does nVidia's current solution) but ignoring that MSAA+AF does nothing to filter alpha textures use to simulate geometry. Go ahead and check it yourself.
In other words, you stated your question wrong in the first place. Btw, why are you mentioning the 8500 and 9700, your question/assertion was that FSAA on the 9800 hardware was non-functional.
The hardware is non functional on R3x0 hardware. I can't say if the R9700 states it has FSAA on the box as I don't have one around I can check.
Ok, so not only is TH and AnandTech wrong in their usage of terminology, but also Beyond3D? Don't you think that the fact that three of the biggest sites out there disgree with your personal usage of the term, means something?
No, I don't think it means anything at all. When I first picked up a R9500Pro I was repeatedly griping about the seriously screwed up AF filtering and the amount of aliasing it introduced. All of the sites you mentioned talked about how much more detail the AF of the R3x0 core added to the scene compared to the rest of the current parts. I got my R9800Pro and was still going off about how poor the AF was on the R3x0 core and again those same three sites you listed off denied it was a problem and there was nothing wrong with it- it was in fact superior to the other offerings. Then 3D Center wrote an article about the low quality blending accuracy that ATi uses on their filtering blending operations and demonstrated how this introduced noticeable aliasing and reduced quality compared to the competition. If everyone simply decided that they were mistaken because Anand, Tom and Dave say something different then numerous issues wouldn't ever be figured out.