The big myth about the election was that economic suffering drove most of Trump's base

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obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
I know you believe you have "an entire fucking platform that benefits working class and middle class voters." The problem is many of those voters don't agree and just voted for Trump instead. So the question then becomes are you going to critically re-examine your platform to determine if your beliefs are actual reality, or are you going to assume you're correct and just presume Trump voters are stupid and vote against their self-interests?

Uhm, yes? At least economic self-interest. That's the whole point of article in OP, and many others I've read. I could dig up one from the economist (pretty sober and respected) which went over lots of polling data showing culture> economy. Often people say economy is most important, but vote on cultural issues. Lower-class (poor, low-middle class, whatever) white people in the midwest decided their (perceived) cultural anxieties were more important than economic self-interest and voted for Trump. That's proven over and over since then. Loosing jobs have nothing to do with it, except perhaps to blame mexicans for it.

And I'm curious, what if the Democrats decided to change their message as you propose and cater to these people. People who flocked to Trump because he showed it was ok to flaunt your hatred of your "enemies". How do you casually sprinkle in xenophobia and racism into the Democrat's platform? How do you have just enough policies that say gays aren't allowed to exist and no brown people into america? How would this work with the rest of their policies?
You can't
 

LurchFrinky

Senior member
Nov 12, 2003
302
56
91
I know you believe you have "an entire fucking platform that benefits working class and middle class voters." The problem is many of those voters don't agree and just voted for Trump instead. So the question then becomes are you going to critically re-examine your platform to determine if your beliefs are actual reality, or are you going to assume you're correct and just presume Trump voters are stupid and vote against their self-interests? Because right now you're sounding a lot like Kodak executives back in the day who insisted for years that people loved Kodak and their print photography and would never accept digital camera technology. Not accurately understanding the wants and needs of your customers and doubling down on your current offerings is pretty common in poorly run businesses and sounds like you (and the progressive side at large) in the last few years. Your market share (percentage of legislative seats and governorships held, etc.) goes down yet you insist your product is amazing and customers can't get enough of it. Does this map look like your platform is a market success?
Your Kodak analogy suggests that voting habits are changing (in this case, becoming more racist), and the Democratic party needs to appeal to and support this sentiment in order to gain more votes. Sorry, not buying it.
The Trump voters are motivated by fear and hate:
They hate Hillary
They fear/hate Muslims
They fear/hate immigrants
They fear/hate POC
They fear change
Conservatives actively stoke fear and hatred in the populace and claim to be the protectors against these evils.
But these "Evils" aren't really bad, and some of them are not only good, they are the foundation of what America stands for (immigration.)
The Democrats do have a platform that benefits working and middle class voters, but the psychology of fear is likely the most potent form of voter manipulation. They are still trying to figure out how to combat this fear without having to resort to similar tactics that obviously divide the populace.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,850
136
I know you believe you have "an entire fucking platform that benefits working class and middle class voters." The problem is many of those voters don't agree and just voted for Trump instead. So the question then becomes are you going to critically re-examine your platform to determine if your beliefs are actual reality, or are you going to assume you're correct and just presume Trump voters are stupid and vote against their self-interests? Because right now you're sounding a lot like Kodak executives back in the day who insisted for years that people loved Kodak and their print photography and would never accept digital camera technology. Not accurately understanding the wants and needs of your customers and doubling down on your current offerings is pretty common in poorly run businesses and sounds like you (and the progressive side at large) in the last few years. Your market share (percentage of legislative seats and governorships held, etc.) goes down yet you insist your product is amazing and customers can't get enough of it. Does this map look like your platform is a market success?

The electoral college isn't indicative of whether the party platform actually benefits working class/middle class voters, because as I stated in what you quoted, the Republican party has convinced a large portion of Americans that their tribal identity is the most important aspect of their citizenship, and hence, what they should vote on.

Want to compare the popular vote totals since 1992 to determine which party tends to have the more popular platform, if we're using the presidential elections, of course? Because that vote total isn't going to look like the electoral college map.

Republicans have a very loyal base who identify as members of an exclusive tribe. The Democrats have a very fickle base made up of very diverse people, because the Democratic party is inclusive.

This means that large swaths of working class/middle class voters who self-identify as Republicans don't care that the Democratic party platform would benefit them. Because their most important cause in voting is tribal identity and loyalty.

As I said in what you quoted of me.

"Market success" of a political platform is irrelevant when it's brand loyalty that turns out base voters.
 
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