The Billary Road to Republican Victory: Frank Rick NY Times

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Frank Rich is a rather liberal op-ed writer who hates O'Reilly and Fox News.

It is interesting to get his view on Bill and Hillary.

Cliff notes: nominate Hillary and watch McCain win.
link
IN the wake of George W. Bush, even a miracle might not be enough for the Republicans to hold on to the White House in 2008. But what about two miracles? The new year?s twin resurrections of Bill Clinton and John McCain, should they not evaporate, at last give the G.O.P. a highly plausible route to victory.

Amazingly, neither party seems to fully recognize the contours of the road map. In the Democrats? case, the full-throttle emergence of Billary, the joint Clinton candidacy, is measured mainly within the narrow confines of the short-term horse race: Do Bill Clinton?s red-faced eruptions and fact-challenged rants enhance or diminish his wife as a woman and a candidate?

Absent from this debate is any sober recognition that a Hillary Clinton nomination, if it happens, will send the Democrats into the general election with a new and huge peril that may well dwarf the current wars over race, gender and who said what about Ronald Reagan.

What has gone unspoken is this: Up until this moment, Hillary has successfully deflected rough questions about Bill by saying, ?I?m running on my own? or, as she snapped at Barack Obama in the last debate, ?Well, I?m here; he?s not.? This sleight of hand became officially inoperative once her husband became a co-candidate, even to the point of taking over entirely when she vacated South Carolina last week. With ?two for the price of one? back as the unabashed modus operandi, both Clintons are in play.

For the Republicans, that means not just a double dose of the one steroid, Clinton hatred, that might yet restore their party?s unity but also two fat targets. Mrs. Clinton repeatedly talks of how she?s been ?vetted? and that ?there are no surprises? left to be mined by her opponents. On the ?Today? show Friday, she joked that the Republican attacks ?are just so old.? So far. Now that Mr. Clinton is ubiquitous, not only is his past back on the table but his post-presidency must be vetted as well. To get a taste of what surprises may be in store, you need merely revisit the Bill Clinton questions that Hillary Clinton has avoided to date.

Asked by Tim Russert at a September debate whether the Clinton presidential library and foundation would disclose the identities of its donors during the campaign, Mrs. Clinton said it wasn?t up to her. ?What?s your recommendation?? Mr. Russert countered. Mrs. Clinton replied: ?Well, I don?t talk about my private conversations with my husband, but I?m sure he?d be happy to consider that.?

Not so happy, as it turns out. The names still have not been made public.

Just before the holidays, investigative reporters at both The Washington Post and The New York Times tried to find out why, with no help from the Clintons. The Post uncovered a plethora of foreign contributors, led by Saudi Arabia. The Times found an overlap between library benefactors and Hillary Clinton campaign donors, some of whom might have an agenda with a new Clinton administration. (Much as one early library supporter, Marc Rich?s ex-wife, Denise, had an agenda with the last one.) ?The vast scale of these secret fund-raising operations presents enormous opportunities for abuse,? said Representative Henry Waxman, the California Democrat whose legislation to force disclosure passed overwhelmingly in the House but remains stalled in the Senate.

The Post and Times reporters couldn?t unlock all the secrets. The unanswered questions could keep them and their competitors busy until Nov. 4. Mr. Clinton?s increased centrality to the campaign will also give The Wall Street Journal a greater news peg to continue its reportorial forays into the unraveling financial partnership between Mr. Clinton and the swashbuckling billionaire Ron Burkle.

At ?Little Rock?s Fort Knox,? as the Clinton library has been nicknamed by frustrated researchers, it?s not merely the heavy-hitting contributors who are under wraps. Even by the glacial processing standards of the National Archives, the Clintons? White House papers have emerged slowly, in part because Bill Clinton exercised his right to insist that all communications between him and his wife be ?considered for withholding? until 2012.

When Mrs. Clinton was asked by Mr. Russert at an October debate if she would lift that restriction, she again escaped by passing the buck to her husband: ?Well, that?s not my decision to make.? Well, if her candidacy is to be as completely vetted as she guarantees, the time for the other half of Billary to make that decision is here.

The credibility of a major Clinton campaign plank, health care, depends on it. In that same debate, Mrs. Clinton told Mr. Russert that ?all of the records, as far as I know, about what we did with health care? are ?already available.? As Michael Isikoff of Newsweek reported weeks later, this is a bit off; he found that 3,022,030 health care documents were still held hostage. Whatever the pace of the processing, the gatekeeper charged with approving each document?s release is the longtime Clinton loyalist Bruce Lindsey.

People don?t change. Bill Clinton, having always lived on the edge, is back on the precipice. When he repeatedly complains that the press has given Mr. Obama a free ride and over-investigated the Clintons, he seems to be tempting the fates, given all the reporting still to be done on his post-presidential business. When he says, as he did on Monday, that ?whatever I do should be totally transparent,? it?s almost as if he?s setting himself up for a fall. There?s little more transparency at ?Little Rock?s Fort Knox? than there is at Giuliani Partners.

?The Republicans are not going to have any compunctions about asking anybody anything,? Mrs. Clinton lectured Mr. Obama. Maybe so, but Republicans are smart enough not to start asking until after she has secured the nomination.

Not all Republicans are smart enough, however, to recognize the value of John McCain should Mrs. Clinton emerge as the nominee. He?s a bazooka aimed at most every rationale she?s offered for her candidacy.

In a McCain vs. Billary race, the Democrats will sacrifice the most highly desired commodity by the entire electorate, change; the party will be mired in déjà 1990s all over again. Mrs. Clinton?s spiel about being ?tested? by her ?35 years of experience? won?t fly either. The moment she attempts it, Mr. McCain will run an ad about how he was being tested when those 35 years began, in 1973. It was that spring when he emerged from five-plus years of incarceration at the Hanoi Hilton while Billary was still bivouacked at Yale Law School. And can Mrs. Clinton presume to sell herself as best equipped to be commander in chief ?on Day One? when opposing an actual commander and war hero? I don?t think so.

Foreign policy issue No. 1, withdrawal from Iraq, should be a slam-dunk for any Democrat. Even the audience at Thursday?s G.O.P. debate in Boca Raton cheered Ron Paul?s antiwar sentiments. But Mrs. Clinton?s case is undermined by her record. She voted for the war, just as Mr. McCain did, in 2002 and was still defending it in February 2005, when she announced from the Green Zone that much of Iraq was ?functioning quite well. ? Only in November 2005 did she express the serious misgivings long pervasive in her own party. When Mr. McCain accuses her of now advocating ?surrender? out of political expediency, her flip-flopping will back him up.

Billary can?t even run against the vast right-wing conspiracy if Mr. McCain is the opponent. Rush Limbaugh and Tom DeLay hate Mr. McCain as much as they hate the Clintons. And they hate him for the same reasons Mr. McCain wins over independents and occasional Democrats: his sporadic (and often mild) departures from conservative orthodoxy on immigration and campaign finance reform, torture, tax cuts, climate change and the godliness of Pat Robertson. Since Mr. McCain doesn?t kick reporters like dogs, as the Clintons do, he will no doubt continue to enjoy an advantage, however unfair, with the press pack on the Straight Talk Express.

Even so, Mr. McCain hasn?t yet won a clear majority of Republican voters in any G.O.P. contest. He?s depended on the kindness of independent voters. Tuesday?s Florida primary, which is open exclusively to Republicans, is his crucial test. If he fails, his party remains in chaos and Mitt Romney could still inherit the earth.

That would be a miracle for the Democrats, but they can hardly count on it. If Mr. Obama has not met an unexpected Waterloo in South Carolina ? this column went to press before Saturday?s vote ? the party needs him to stop whining about the Clintons? attacks, regain his wit and return to playing offense. Unlike Mrs. Clinton, he would unambiguously represent change in a race with any Republican. If he vanquishes Billary, he?ll have an even stronger argument to take into battle against a warrior like Mr. McCain.

If Mr. Obama doesn?t fight, no one else will. Few national Democratic leaders have the courage to stand up to the Clintons. Even in defeat, Mr. Obama may at least help wake up a party slipping into denial. Any Democrat who seriously thinks that Bill will fade away if Hillary wins the nomination ? let alone that the Clintons will escape being fully vetted ? is a Democrat who, as the man said, believes in fairy tales.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
It's an interesting piece, but I'm afraid McCain isn't the man. If McCain is nominated, the GOP goes down with certainty in November.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
It's an interesting piece, but I'm afraid McCain isn't the man. If McCain is nominated, the GOP goes down with certainty in November.

H e has a far better chance than any of the other and would give hillary a good run.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I agree with Mikey, according to current polls, McCain is the only repub who stands a chance in the general election.

And in a pissing contest with McCain, both Limbaugh and Delay are the ones going down.

Delay has already gone down and Limbaugh spent his capital backing Thompson. Limbaugh and Delay may think they are still relevant, but they no longer are.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Pabster
It's an interesting piece, but I'm afraid McCain isn't the man. If McCain is nominated, the GOP goes down with certainty in November.

McCain's the GOP's only hope.

my fellow republicans need to hold their nose and just do it.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think McCain beats Hillary because I will vote for him.
I think that is the point.

We can stick to our guns so to speak and pick Romney and risk lossing or we can vote McCain and have a chance to win.

No matter how unconservative McCain may be he will still be better than Hillary.

And let's be honest how much worse of shape can the Republiucan Party be in 4 years?
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
McCain would provide a check on the almost assured gains the Dems would make in Congress this November. He would do some heavy vetoing from the start, especially on Iraq. That said, I would not mind at all if McCain beat her.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
I would be far more likely to consider McCain than Romney, though frankly, McCain lost most of his credibility when he sold out to BushCo and the evangelicals. I think McCain wants the White House too desperately, and was willing to compromise his integrity to get it. He's also far too hawkish on Iraq for my taste, now acknowledging BushCo's execution of the invasion was a fiasco while remaining unwilling to admit the invasion was wrong.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Bow... is there anyone who hasn't given up their integrity to get the White House?

Maybe Obama?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bow... is there anyone who hasn't given up their integrity to get the White House?

Maybe Obama?
Honestly, no. Unfortunately the system is essentially rigged so that those with the most integrity are less likely to succeed at the national level. There are some candidates who have compromised notably less than others, however. Yes, Obama appears to be one who has largely kept his integrity. I'm doubtful that will still be true if he spends another eight years in the Senate which is in part why he is so appealing in 2008.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I'm not that up on American politics - is there a specific act or vote that McCain was involved in that makes him considered a sellout?
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think McCain beats Hillary because I will vote for him.
I think that is the point.

We can stick to our guns so to speak and pick Romney and risk lossing or we can vote McCain and have a chance to win.

No matter how unconservative McCain may be he will still be better than Hillary.

And let's be honest how much worse of shape can the Republiucan Party be in 4 years?[/q]

Based on their current trajectory, things will be a lot worse for the Republican Party in 4 years. Either Hillary or Obama will defeat any Republican they can put up.

I see total disarray in the Republican party after they hitched their wagon to GWB.
And most of their candidates insist that the war in Iraq was the right decision and must be continued. A sure recipe for disaster in the next election, seeing how most Americans want the war to end.
I think even Kerry could win this election.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: ProfJohn

We can stick to our guns so to speak and pick Romney and risk lossing or we can vote McCain and have a chance to win.

what guns does the governor who saw gay marriage made into law, put a universal health care plan in place, and raised taxes across the board represent?
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bow... is there anyone who hasn't given up their integrity to get the White House?

Maybe Obama?
Honestly, no. Unfortunately the system is essentially rigged so that those with the most integrity are less likely to succeed at the national level. There are some candidates who have compromised notably less than others, however. Yes, Obama appears to be one who has largely kept his integrity. I'm doubtful that will still be true if he spends another eight years in the Senate which is in part why he is so appealing in 2008.

I like Obama as a candidate, and will have to really do some research between him and McCain or Huckabee if either of those two is the Rep. nominee.

But I think to say that Obama has kept his integrity because Obama has kept his integrity isn't saying much...

...to me it seems that the longer these mostly honest politicians stay in Washington, the more and more Washington washes off on them. Just give Obama a few more years if he doesn't make POTUS or VP this upcoming election...it's basically inevitable....

Chuck
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: chucky2
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bow... is there anyone who hasn't given up their integrity to get the White House?

Maybe Obama?
Honestly, no. Unfortunately the system is essentially rigged so that those with the most integrity are less likely to succeed at the national level. There are some candidates who have compromised notably less than others, however. Yes, Obama appears to be one who has largely kept his integrity. I'm doubtful that will still be true if he spends another eight years in the Senate which is in part why he is so appealing in 2008.

I like Obama as a candidate, and will have to really do some research between him and McCain or Huckabee if either of those two is the Rep. nominee.

But I think to say that Obama has kept his integrity because Obama has kept his integrity isn't saying much...

...to me it seems that the longer these mostly honest politicians stay in Washington, the more and more Washington washes off on them. Just give Obama a few more years if he doesn't make POTUS or VP this upcoming election...it's basically inevitable....

Chuck
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but that was my point as well. Obama is so attractive in 2008 in part because he's still relatively untouched by the corrupting effect of D.C. If he spends another eight years in the Senate while waiting for McCain/Clinton/whomever to serve two terms, Obama will probably be well on his way to becoming just another slimy politician.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,721
6,201
126
People who are corrupted by politics are people who can be corrupted. People who can't be corrupted can't be corrupted by politics or anything else. There is nothing more valuable than personal integrity and no bribe is larger than that for those who know. Self-respect is all but unknown is a world filled with self-hate.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I am not voting for McCain. If I want a liberal in office I can vote for a Democrat. At least with a Democrat you know they are a democrat.

If McCain was stupid enough to be shot down and captured by the enemy that does not make him seem all that skilled or smart; Just unlucky. It is not like he was Chuck Norris and escaped from a prison camp and went back to free his friends. I know that was fictitious character in a movie, but hopefully you get what I mean. It is like watching reruns of Hogan's Heroes.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am not voting for McCain. If I want a liberal in office I can vote for a Democrat. At least with a Democrat you know they are a democrat.

QFT. :thumbsup:


 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Pabster
It's an interesting piece, but I'm afraid McCain isn't the man. If McCain is nominated, the GOP goes down with certainty in November.

If HRC is nominated, it likely won't matter who is chosen in the Repub primary. She'll motivate the Repub faithful to come out and vote. And if McCain is the Repub nominee, independants will likely show up for him in the general election.

Fern
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am not voting for McCain. If I want a liberal in office I can vote for a Democrat. At least with a Democrat you know they are a democrat.

If McCain was stupid enough to be shot down and captured by the enemy that does not make him seem all that skilled or smart; Just unlucky. It is not like he was Chuck Norris and escaped from a prison camp and went back to free his friends. I know that was fictitious character in a movie, but hopefully you get what I mean. It is like watching reruns of Hogan's Heroes.

I'm sorry did you just write "If McCain was stupid enough to be shot down and captured by the enemy that does not make him seem all that skilled or smart"? This is a joke, right? No one is that callous or stupid.... are they?
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
868
61
91
Originally posted by: yllus
I'm not that up on American politics - is there a specific act or vote that McCain was involved in that makes him considered a sellout?

Look up the McCain/Kennedy bill.
 

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
1,665
0
0
Originally posted by: Fern

If HRC is nominated, it likely won't matter who is chosen in the Repub primary. She'll motivate the Repub faithful to come out and vote. And if McCain is the Repub nominee, independants will likely show up for him in the general election.

Fern

Interesting point there, Fern.

I wouldn't consider myself a Repub faithful but a traditional conservative. So it's unlikely I'd consider voting for McCain even if Hillary is the Dem nominee. But I agree 100% with your point, that for those who consider themselves party Republicans, there is probably no greater motivator than the thought of Hillary in the White House.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Pabster
It's an interesting piece, but I'm afraid McCain isn't the man. If McCain is nominated, the GOP goes down with certainty in November.

If HRC is nominated, it likely won't matter who is chosen in the Repub primary. She'll motivate the Repub faithful to come out and vote. And if McCain is the Repub nominee, independants will likely show up for him in the general election.

Fern

Agreed, but don't forget the effect that calling out the republican faithful will have. The Dems will do the same thing and tell people to get out and vote because the Reps are united against Hillary, and do we really want another 4 years (at least) of the Pubs in power? (rattle off litany of last 8 years scandals, failures, etc.)

The question will be, as it usually is, which base will get more motivated. If HRC gets the nom, I don't expect Obama to stay silent. He will campaign for the dem nom and motivate his faithful followers to vote.

Given their campaigns thus far, I don't see how HRC could take on Obama as a VP, but that really would benefit her enormously if she were to get the nom.
 
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