The Brain Drain

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

I don't think you understand how these banks are structured. The employees being discussed here were NOT randopmly scattered amongst the "gamblers" who lost billions. Instead, these good employees were in completely seperate divisions where risk and short-term gains were not involved.

Repeat this to yourself until it sinks in: These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks... These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks... These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks...

Who gives a rat's ass? NO employee is worth gigazillions in salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes unless that employee is personally earning the company multiple gigazillions of dollars more than they cost the company, AND the same job couldn't be done by someone else for less. And NO employee is worth gigazillions in salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes when thousands of investors are losing their life savings and hundreds or thousands of other employees are losing their jobs.

I wouldn't be suprised if there are at least a few available, qualified, competent, unemployed brainiacs around who would be willing to start at a paltry $500K.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

I don't think you understand how these banks are structured. The employees being discussed here were NOT randopmly scattered amongst the "gamblers" who lost billions. Instead, these good employees were in completely seperate divisions where risk and short-term gains were not involved.

Repeat this to yourself until it sinks in: These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks... These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks... These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks...

Who gives a rat's ass? NO employee is worth gigazillions in salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes unless that employee is personally earning the company multiple gigazillions of dollars more than they cost the company, AND the same job couldn't be done by someone else for less. And NO employee is worth gigazillions in salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes when thousands of investors are losing their life savings and hundreds or thousands of other employees are losing their jobs.

I wouldn't be suprised if there are at least a few available, qualified, competent, unemployed brainiacs around who would be willing to start at a paltry $500K.

But are they able to generate the additional income that your higher paid employee can do.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: senseamp
On average, the highly compensated employees lost these companies hundreds of billions over the long term. Granted some of them turned a profit, but so what, some gamblers end up beating the house too. But on average, high compensation was not just a huge waste of money, it encouraged excessive risk taking in the name of short term profits. Unless you can reliably predict who is going to turn a huge profit going forward, and who is simply gambling, I'd rather the government save me money and hire boring second tier bankers, the types who did not get huge bonuses, but stayed at regional banks, played it safe and avoided this mess entirely. Wall street hot shots who think they are entitled to a bonus no matter what can take a hike.

I don't think you understand how these banks are structured. The employees being discussed here were NOT randopmly scattered amongst the "gamblers" who lost billions. Instead, these good employees were in completely seperate divisions where risk and short-term gains were not involved.

Repeat this to yourself until it sinks in: These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks... These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks... These employees had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of these banks...

Or, perhaps you need to start with a variation of the mantra I tried to teach you the other day: Not everything my own political party does is a good idea... Not everything my own political party does is a good idea... Not everything my own political party does is a good idea...

"Short-term gains" in this context could mean a few years. Like I said before, the masterminds behind the financial products that led to the current financial collapse were probably hailed as geniuses and top talent back in the early 2000's. It wasn't until several years later that everyone understood the highly risky nature of their activities.

I suspect in 10 or so years we will be having this discussion again, only instead of housing the center of the problem will be <insert next bubble here>.

I know I already said this earlier in the thread, but is it even possible for our economy to grow at a slow, steady pace, or are we doomed to endless boom-bust cycles that force painful corrections like the one we're in now?

 

[KMFJD]

Hey boss, i know the company lost millions of dollars and you needed to mortgage your property to keep the company afloat , but i have worked exceptionally hard and earned you money, you have paid my salary for the year but i believe i was due a bonus if i performed well, so where is it?

Boss- Get Bent

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Harvey

Who gives a rat's ass? NO employee is worth gigazillions in salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes unless that employee is personally earning the company multiple gigazillions of dollars more than they cost the company, AND the same job couldn't be done by someone else for less. And NO employee is worth gigazillions in salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes when thousands of investors are losing their life savings and hundreds or thousands of other employees are losing their jobs.

I wouldn't be suprised if there are at least a few available, qualified, competent, unemployed brainiacs around who would be willing to start at a paltry $500K.

But are they able to generate the additional income that your higher paid employee can do.

The law defines corporations as "coroprate citizens." As such, they have responsibilities to the society that supports their businesses that extend far beyond the bottom line and shareholders' short term interests.

NOTHING validates paying one person, or one small group, gigazillions while thousands are unable to provide for the well being of themselves and their families caused by the ethical, moral and financial failures of these financial institutions.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: nullzero
Some banks now have a new major share holder called uncle sam.

fixed.

...and those will be the ones who are unable to compete in the global financial sector due to heavyhanded U.S. government interference.

Spending trillions of dollars to intentionally delay the inevitable just might be one of the poorest decisions in the history of the world. We're just now seeing small examples of what is to come -- ie. GM delcaring bankruptcy anyways after receiving billions of dollars from uncle sam to keep them afloat for a mere six months.

It's simply disgusting.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: nullzero
Some banks now have a new major share holder called uncle sam.

fixed.

...and those will be the ones who are unable to compete in the global financial sector due to heavyhanded U.S. government interference.

Spending trillions of dollars to intentionally delay the inevitable just might be one of the poorest decisions in the history of the world. We're just now seeing small examples of what is to come -- ie. GM delcaring bankruptcy anyways after receiving billions of dollars from uncle sam to keep them afloat for a mere six months.

It's simply disgusting.

I agree let them all fail, most of these banks don't deserve to be standing right now.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Who gives a rat's ass? NO employee is worth gigazillions in salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes unless that employee is personally earning the company multiple gigazillions of dollars more than they cost the company, AND the same job couldn't be done by someone else for less.

You just answered your own questions. The employees being discussed here do continue to earn "gigazillions" for their companies, which is why competing banks (non-TARP) are still ready and willing to pay them "gigazillions" -- or, more accurately, those non-TARP banks pay them the salary that is the current globally established fair market value for their position.

I wouldn't be suprised if there are at least a few available, qualified, competent, unemployed brainiacs around who would be willing to start at a paltry $500K.

Anyone who is able to do the job would also be smart enough to realize that they're worth just as much as every other financial employee out there who is doing the same job at non-TARP banks.

Why would somebody go to work for Bank X (TARP) for $500k when they could just as easily, with the same qualifications and experience, go to work for Bank Y (non-TARP) for $2M?! Seriously, who the hell is that fucking retarded?!?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Why would somebody go to work for Bank X (TARP) for $500k when they could just as easily, with the same qualifications and experience, go to work for Bank Y (non-TARP) for $2M?! Seriously, who the hell is that fucking retarded?!?

Why would your "Bank Y (non-TARP)" pay $2 million when the pool of qualified, out of work and newly graduated prospective employees is overflowing with so many others who are willing to work for a "paltry" $500 thousand?

Seriously, I wouldn't trust any dumbass bank that is THAT fucking retarded with my money! :roll:

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Why would somebody go to work for Bank X (TARP) for $500k when they could just as easily, with the same qualifications and experience, go to work for Bank Y (non-TARP) for $2M?! Seriously, who the hell is that fucking retarded?!?

Why would your "Bank Y (non-TARP)" pay $2 million when the pool of qualified, out of work and newly graduated prospective employees is overflowing with so many others who are willing to work for a "paltry" $500 thousand?

Seriously, I wouldn't trust any dumbass bank that is THAT fucking retarded with my money! :roll:

Because you get a much better employee with the 2 million. This is how most all compensation works is you generally get what you pay for. Unless the gubment forces you to a cap and then you still get what you pay for - less skilled, less talanted people as the better ones will simply leave or not take the job because they know they are worth more.

 

[LegendKiller]

The basic matter comes down to this. At this point we have invested a significant amount of money into several banks. We can either preserve their economic value to maximize the eventual sale value, or we can let them wallow. If you choose to preserve their economic value then you must invest in them, which means investing in the people, paying them the salary that keeps them in the seats.

That is the fact of the matter. The remainder of the ideas ("let it burn") are not workable solutions.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Why would somebody go to work for Bank X (TARP) for $500k when they could just as easily, with the same qualifications and experience, go to work for Bank Y (non-TARP) for $2M?! Seriously, who the hell is that fucking retarded?!?

Why would your "Bank Y (non-TARP)" pay $2 million when the pool of qualified, out of work and newly graduated prospective employees is overflowing with so many others who are willing to work for a "paltry" $500 thousand?

Seriously, I wouldn't trust any dumbass bank that is THAT fucking retarded with my money! :roll:

Because you get a much better employee with the 2 million. This is how most all compensation works is you generally get what you pay for.

Uh-huh!!! In your freaking dreams!!! That's why we got such quality work from all of those greedy, over-paid jackasses as they ran off with their bonuses and golden parachutes after raping, pillaging and looting the entire financial system. :roll:

The system is broken, and those who spawned it and broke it aren't worth squat. There are plenty of bright, talented, qualified people willing to work for less. If they're not tainted with the stench of having worked in the upper echelons of the pre-collapse banking system, so much the better.

 

[wwswimming]

sounds more like a Greed Drain than a Brain Drain !

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: wwswimming

sounds more like a Greed Drain than a Brain Drain !

QFT! :thumbsup:

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Why would somebody go to work for Bank X (TARP) for $500k when they could just as easily, with the same qualifications and experience, go to work for Bank Y (non-TARP) for $2M?! Seriously, who the hell is that fucking retarded?!?

Why would your "Bank Y (non-TARP)" pay $2 million when the pool of qualified, out of work and newly graduated prospective employees is overflowing with so many others who are willing to work for a "paltry" $500 thousand?

Seriously, I wouldn't trust any dumbass bank that is THAT fucking retarded with my money! :roll:

When did "newly graduated" and "out of work" enter into this discussion?!?

This thread is about highly educated and experienced employees whose positions had nothing to do with the financial woes we're facing today, and whose divisions always turned massive profits for whichever banks they were working for.

Such skill and experience is worth $2M in the global financial industry, and nothing the U.S. Congress does will effect that fair market value -- so offering these veteran financial gurus pennies on the dollar will simply destroy the TARP-funded banks they jump ship from. Period.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Harvey
The system is broken, and those who spawned it and broke it aren't worth squat.

Well then it's a good thing we're not talking about those particular people in this thread, eh?

Try to keep up.

The really sad thing is that not only are you destroying any chance the TARP banks ever have of actually saving themselves, you're also willing to destroy the lives of every one of their remaining employees. That's so damn kind of you...

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonbull
The financial industry could use a good "dumbing down". It's one big Ponzy scheme and we all could benefit from a lower number of smart people trying to cheat the system.

How is it a ponzi scheme?

Well the idea of the Fed being able to manufacture money at the public's debt and then use that money to make more money.

That is not exactly a ponzi scheme but it sorta belong in same general collection of financial shenanigans.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: spidey07
So why would obama do this if anybody with an ounce of common sense knew and could easily predict the outcome? Seriously, it didn't take much intelligence to know what would happen and I remember many threads where I and others told you this was what was going to happen.

Well I'm certainly open to possibility that all kinds of snow jobs are being pulled in all of this... it just isn't obvious to me what is going on with the TARP salary cap and whatnot.

I will say again for the millionth time... people say conspiracies can't and don't happen. And this is exactly why people get away with them... because too many people assume they can't.

We have seen many conspiracies happen in history, even modern history... right now even.

You look at Iran... there is plenty of funny business that strongly supports that the election was stolen (I myself was in doubt for a while but have pretty much come around to believe that is was stolen). Yet there is enough doubt in the Iranian public, enough fear and uncertainty... that I think the odds are that the powers that be in Iran are gonna get away with it.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Why would somebody go to work for Bank X (TARP) for $500k when they could just as easily, with the same qualifications and experience, go to work for Bank Y (non-TARP) for $2M?! Seriously, who the hell is that fucking retarded?!?

Why would your "Bank Y (non-TARP)" pay $2 million when the pool of qualified, out of work and newly graduated prospective employees is overflowing with so many others who are willing to work for a "paltry" $500 thousand?

Seriously, I wouldn't trust any dumbass bank that is THAT fucking retarded with my money! :roll:

When did "newly graduated" and "out of work" enter into this discussion?!?

About the time the available, qualified talent pool far exceeded number of available jobs, even at the highest, most demanding levels.

This thread is about highly educated and experienced employees whose positions had nothing to do with the financial woes we're facing today, and whose divisions always turned massive profits for whichever banks they were working for.

In the current market, what makes you think that doesn't include a bunch of those who are out of work and need to support themselves and their families?

Such skill and experience is worth $2M in the global financial industry, and nothing the U.S. Congress does will effect that fair market value -- so offering these veteran financial gurus pennies on the dollar will simply destroy the TARP-funded banks they jump ship from. Period.

BULLSHIT!!! Period.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: senseamp
If these people were "good" and did "perform" then why did their banks need TARP money?

Really? Do you work in the business world?

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Such skill and experience is worth $2M in the global financial industry, and nothing the U.S. Congress does will effect that fair market value -- so offering these veteran financial gurus pennies on the dollar will simply destroy the TARP-funded banks they jump ship from. Period.

BULLSHIT!!! Period.

Articulate, well thought out, thorough... great response. :roll:

Please explain to all of us how TARP banks comprised of under-educated, inexperienced, underpaid n00bs can expect to compete, effectively, with their non-TARP brethren who hire, and pay accordingly, the most highly educated and experienced employees in the financial sector -- Remember, we're talking about former employees who had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of any banks.

Or, was actually saving these banks never one of your priorities?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Such skill and experience is worth $2M in the global financial industry, and nothing the U.S. Congress does will effect that fair market value -- so offering these veteran financial gurus pennies on the dollar will simply destroy the TARP-funded banks they jump ship from. Period.

BULLSHIT!!! Period.

Articulate, well thought out, thorough... great response. :roll:

Please explain to all of us how TARP banks comprised of under-educated, inexperienced, underpaid n00bs can expect to compete, effectively, with their non-TARP brethren who hire, and pay accordingly, the most highly educated and experienced employees in the financial sector -- Remember, we're talking about former employees who had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of any banks.

Or, was actually saving these banks never one of your priorities?

It doesn't fit in with Harvey's socialist utopia dreams, so he breaks out the bold. You should see him talk about President Bush, it's all bold and italics.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Such skill and experience is worth $2M in the global financial industry, and nothing the U.S. Congress does will effect that fair market value -- so offering these veteran financial gurus pennies on the dollar will simply destroy the TARP-funded banks they jump ship from. Period.

BULLSHIT!!! Period.

Articulate, well thought out, thorough... great response. :roll:

Please explain to all of us how TARP banks comprised of under-educated, inexperienced, underpaid n00bs can expect to compete, effectively, with their non-TARP brethren who hire, and pay accordingly, the most highly educated and experienced employees in the financial sector -- Remember, we're talking about former employees who had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of any banks.

Or, was actually saving these banks never one of your priorities?

In these jobs, they're not the creative force that includes inventors. engineers, programmers and others who create new, valuable real products from their ideas. They're not artists, writers, actors, directors, musicians and other creative talents who create works of value as entertainment, as well as generating revenue. They're not the creative business people who build companies to market the real work product of the creative minds.

In fact, at the end of the day, they don't CREATE anything. All they are is overpaid number jockeys and data pushers. They're necessary as facilitators to help finance the production and delivery of the real goods and services created by others, but they can't transcend the laws of numbers and economics, because they aren't the arithmetic equivalent of jocks like Kobe Bryant or Lebron James who can transcend the laws of physics as they apply to human bodies, and they don't produce jack shit, in and of themselves.

In fact, we're in this entire economic calamity because they stuffed their pockets and padded their golden parachutes by trying to beat those economic laws while buying off our legislators and those charged with overseeing their trainwreck... and they FAILED and left us holding the bag. :thumbsdown: :|

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Such skill and experience is worth $2M in the global financial industry, and nothing the U.S. Congress does will effect that fair market value -- so offering these veteran financial gurus pennies on the dollar will simply destroy the TARP-funded banks they jump ship from. Period.

BULLSHIT!!! Period.

Articulate, well thought out, thorough... great response. :roll:

Please explain to all of us how TARP banks comprised of under-educated, inexperienced, underpaid n00bs can expect to compete, effectively, with their non-TARP brethren who hire, and pay accordingly, the most highly educated and experienced employees in the financial sector -- Remember, we're talking about former employees who had absolutely NOTHING to do with the financial collapse of any banks.

Or, was actually saving these banks never one of your priorities?

In these jobs, they're not the creative force that includes inventors. engineers, programmers and others who create new, valuable real products from their ideas. They're not artists, writers, actors, directors, musicians and other creative talents who create works of value as entertainment, as well as generating revenue. They're not the creative business people who build companies to market the real work product of the creative minds.

In fact, at the end of the day, they don't CREATE anything. All they are is overpaid number jockeys and data pushers. They're necessary as facilitators to help finance the production and delivery of the real goods and services created by others, but they can't transcend the laws of numbers and economics, because they aren't the arithmetic equivalent of jocks like Kobe Bryant or Lebron James who can transcend the laws of physics as they apply to human bodies, and they don't produce jack shit, in and of themselves.

In fact, we're in this entire economic calamity because they stuffed their pockets and padded their golden parachutes by trying to beat those economic laws while buying off our legislators and those charged with overseeing their trainwreck... and they FAILED and left us holding the bag. :thumbsdown: :|

Actually, many of these people analyze investment potentials and make their companies and clients large amounts of money based on their decisions. Additionally, some of them create new investment vehicles, as well as manage those vehicles, and also make massive amounts of money in the process.

You're also making a huge error by lumping all financial sector employees together as part of the problem. It's similar to claiming that all Muslims are terorrists. Surely you'd scoff at anyone making such a claim and call them numerous forms of ignorant in bolded, capitalized letters. Well you don't appear any less ignorant when you make the very same sort of claim applied to finance employees.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Actually, many of these people analyze investment potentials and make their companies and clients large amounts of money based on their decisions. Additionally, some of them create new investment vehicles, as well as manage those vehicles, and also make massive amounts of money in the process.

You're also making a huge error by lumping all financial sector employees together as part of the problem. It's similar to claiming that all Muslims are terorrists. Surely you'd scoff at anyone making such a claim and call them numerous forms of ignorant in bolded, capitalized letters. Well you don't appear any less ignorant when you make the very same sort of claim applied to finance employees.

I know there are imaginative people in the financial sector who create fiscal opportunity. That isn't my point. The point is, when the prospective pool of qualified employees is as large as it is under the current economic situation, the only things supporting over-inflated salaries and bonuses is ego and hot air.

NOTHING justifies their over-inflated sense of self worth when thousands of other qualified people are broke, hungry and out of work.

If all of those mega-buck financial brainiacs are really that valuable, let them fight over the jobs that will actually produce more than they cost... BOTH of them... if they're not already filled.

Better yet, if they're all that bright, let's see them create something new and real that's worth their inflated asking price. :roll: